I can see Harte getting back into the Levante team though once his fitness is back .Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
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I can see Harte getting back into the Levante team though once his fitness is back .Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Those stats are extremely selective. What about the 2 previous games? I know he hasn't played that much this season for Utd. but you're slightly twisted the stats to suit your agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Initially I thought this was a staggering decision to play o shea at CB but I suppose if mcshane has a yellow then its not a bad call. I would be worried though that stan will continue to accommodate a player who has proven he has no drive or hunger to actually perform when he is picked, though again O’shea can’t continue to be blamed for actually being picked-its up to the manager to seek out the turds and drop them.
I am a big fan of kilbane ( had a muck second half against SM last time but did deliver 2 pinpoint crosses for 2 goals and lets be fair always gives 100%) but I feel that on form Hunt should have gotten the nod for a game like this-hunt has played consitently well for reading since xmas and kilbane has been having a miserable time at wigan and has been dropped from their first 11.
Good to see harte back, shame he didn’t play in the 1-0 defeat of real Madrid-would have really given him a boost.
Long deserves a shot after grabbing his chance by the horns at reading as a result of doyle’s injury.
Again though-O’shea MUST be dropped for the big games. He was the worst Irish player on the pitch against SM last time out-completing 2 yard passes was proving a problem for him
I'm reluctantly accepting this injury/booking explanation for McShane's omission(and by the way, he's clearly been playing regularly for WBA for the last ages) but having O'Shea there is just so fear inducing. His capacity for a mistake or critical lapse of concentation is just so palpable. McShane has already given us some sense of a security! Absolute joke that Kilbane is starting ahead of Hunt, particularly in a game like this. What more does Hunt have to do?! He's playing at an absolue peak at the moment. Delighted for Shane Long, he deserves it and I can't wait to see him out there. His pace will cause them serious problems, and I I think it could work well if Robbie plays a bit deeper and creates more.Like the idea for Stokes and Long to finish together.
I'm with Bazmo*, those stats are very selective, the only defenders to have played more than O'Shea this season are the 1st choice players: Ferdinand, Neville, Vidic, EvraQuote:
Originally Posted by pete
Heinze was player of the season 2 years ago, and O'Shea has played way more than him.
As far as I recall, Harte at left back usually means Kilbane at left mid to help him out with the defending. Great to see Harte back, he's had a hard auld time of it with the injuries. After such a long lay-off he's still not up to speed; he was caught out badly a couple of times against Sevilla but on the other hand sent in the corner and free kick that led to Levante's goals. He didn't play against Madrid 'cos Levante's game plan was to defend with eleven players and that's not Harte's forte. Mind you, the way Madrid played I reckon even he could have kept them at bay.
In view of McShane's cards/injury I suppose the squad chosen is good. I would like to see Hunt get at least 45 mins though and the brothers Quinn and Stokes should feature too.
I cannot believe he's playing O'Shea. Since McShane's on a yellow why oh why was O'Dea not called up? The lad's getting rave reviews in Scotland and can score goals as well. The rest of the teams alright, I'm not happy about Kilbane starting but I'd don't know if Stephen Quinn can play in RMF (mind you - can Kilbane?)
-Liam
Not too unhappy with this team. Harte can score goals. I can understand why Stan picked O'Shea ahead of McShane. I really believe for the first time in a while that we now have some excellent players on the bench who can change games such as Hunt(WIMO should be starting). I am actually starting to believe we can get out of this group and that Stan might improve greatly. And no I'm not off my meds or on the gargle!
Kilbane is Kibane, lots of running and effort but this is international football we are talking about here not a Sunday league team. Whilst Hunt has been playing well all season the Wigan fans are questioning why Zinedine Kilbane was ever bought because of his performances this season! He needs to be a sub at the very most, same for O'Shea. Hunt needed to start and I'd rather have O'Dea at the back than bloody O'Shea. San Marino or not he is still a liability.
But we are playing San Marino. If Harte has any defending to do i will be shocked. This was a game to bring Hunt in and get him prepared for international football against a gang of candle stick makers, but as usual Staunton ****ed up. What can be learned by playing Kilbane?? The Wigan fans have recently been on his back and he was dropped at the weekend. His selection makes me slightly angry.Quote:
As far as I recall, Harte at left back usually means Kilbane at left mid to help him out with the defending.
I believe it's written somewhere in the UEFA constitution that Killer has to play in every competitive game. John O'Shea seems to have a similar loophole and now he's shown he can play in goal expect him to end up there eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
Playing in Scotland is only marginally more beneficial to a player's international prospects that playing in Ireland it seems. McCarthy, O'Brien and Breen have all been banished from international football, Staunton lives quite near Coventry - is a possible call-up for Colin Hawkins, about 8 years after he was actually good enough to deserve one, on the cards in the not-too-distant future:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by liaml
How does playing against candle stick makers prepare you for international football?...............if that were the case, even I'm prepared.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
Indeed he did play the full 90 minutes in the previous two games but looked like others given a break over christmas period.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaZmO*
O'Shea is sh!te. I don't need facts to prove that. Aside from Manchester United bench he'd be lucky to get game with any other Premiership team.
Manchester United premiership games (can't count league cup as 15 year old kids get games in that):
- 26 games in total
- 10 games started including the first 5 of the season August-Sept
- 13 sub appearances averaging 13 minutes per appearance off the bench. My impression is he comes off the bench when the game already won so as to give others a rest.
O'Shea is the only player I can think of who has consistently....I mean always and without exception played badly for us when selected.
in a nutshell, correct. He still keeps getting picked though. But even at united early this season and last season when he was awful, he was getting picked regularly-theres no explanation for it really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbod
Mindboggling.
it's offical JoS is alex ferguson, brian kerr & steve staunton's love child
Every team needs it's token ga..., I mean sh!t player. To deflect some of the critisim from the manager when the team plays badly.
oh and kilbane is the love child of mick mccarthy, brian kerr & stan.
it really is strange. you often see managers seem to have players who they rate higher than most observers - down to many reasons training, create a good atmosphere in dressing room ... whatever. but these lads seem to have a never ending stream of admiring managers while most supporters simply don't rate them highly at all.
that said with the squad selected JoS's inclusion was always a possibility but this Kilbane fetish - he should of been overlooked for this one. personally i think we should move on as a footballing nation without them
baseless allegations!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Praha
I am very frustrated with Kilbane's continued playing time. That said, it's a decent, balanced side.
No complaints here.
Staunton claims to have rung Strachan about calling O'Dea into the squad only to be told he wasn't ready for international football yet, in his opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by liaml
McShane has a gash on his thigh and is on a yellow card so I suppose Stan didn't want to risk him against SM(It's just not worth it).
I'm sure if he was fit then he would have started at centre back with O'Shea moving to left back in place of Ian Harte.
As for Kilbane hes only in the team to add experience. No matter who your playing, when your away from home u need experienced players.
i'd rather have kilbane in the team at any cost rather than o shea- at least kilbane has periods in every game where he makes a contribution, unlike o shea who is consistently muck for the entire 90 minutes.
Its as if JOS knows he is untouchable for whatever reason. There is no excuse for playing him any more. even against poor opposition like SM. Was anyone here at the SM game in Landsdowne? There were just gasps and groans from the crowd resulting from his play-he really was that atrocious. Nothing personal-nice lad, needs to be dropped.
A good article from Tom Humphries this morning. I think like all of us he's not convinced by Stan but is desperate to be proved wrong.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Waiting for Stan's men to show passion
Tom Humphries In San Marino
The grand illusion. In out-of-season Rimini nobody sips espressos under Campari umbrellas outside the street cafes. The wind whistles through the gay awnings and the beach bars are shuttered. Anything which opens at all shuts down early.
It's a downbeat place in February, and the mood was unaltered late on Monday night when a busload of Irish media types were installed into a hotel on a street named for Federico Fellini.
Through pecking at their laptops and sifting through player quotes the fourth estate have been working like an effects department to drum up some excitement for Ireland's European Championship campaign.
It ain't easy. We feel like candyfloss vendors in the out-of-season.
Unless everything we know is wrong (and hey!), Ireland should beat San Marino here tonight by a hatful of goals.
Alright, a capful. Ireland don't score goals by the hatful anymore and the statistical (never to be equalled) quirk of the campaign so far has been our trick of conceding as many goals away to Cyprus as we scored at home to San Marino.
Still. What injects some drama into tonight's panto is the stark reality that anything other than a win would spell the end of Stave Staunton's Republic of Ireland managerial career. If he loses control tonight there'll be a hefty sheaf of newspapers he'll want to avoid tomorrow.
Staunton's demeanour is that of a man under pressure. It's not exactly mission impossible that he has been handed, however. In 37 starts in European qualifying games San Marino have never nicked a point off anyone.
Despite being famous for having briefly held the lead against England when they scored a goal in seven seconds into a World Cup qualifier 14 years ago, San Marino have never held the lead in a Euro qualifier. (What a heady time that must have been. San Marino pinched a draw against Turkey in the same campaign. Their Charlton era.)
They start tonight knowing that their last game here against Germany saw them suffer a record 13 goals to nil drubbing.
It's 12 years since they scored in a European qualifying campaign (Pier-Domenico Delle Valle is the name you're trying to think of. He scored against Finland).
Their current goal difference in the group is minus-25 after three games. Their choice of goalkeepers for tonight is between the man who conceded 12 in two games and the man who conceded 13 in one.
If Staunton thinks he has problems, he is right. He just shouldn't have any here.
He has brought a young side with him and he needs to have the guts to play a few of them tonight.
It's true that an upset would cost him his job (and FAI chief executive John Delaney would walk the plank too), but if we are to take seriously the talk of four-year plans that's a risk which has to be taken.
Qualification already looks beyond us with eight games left and six points cutting us off from the top two teams in Group D.
If we forget all the nonsense about Delaney scouring the world for a world-class manager like Tommy Lee Jones searching for the fugitive and we accept Steve Staunton as what we ended up with, we will remember that the principle qualification claimed on his behalf at his coronation was that he was a motivator who would bring the passion back to Irish performances.
Fair enough. Now is the time.
Irish support will forgive almost anything except gutlessness on the field and off it.
A young Irish team for the next couple of years sprinkled with the Shane Longs, the Aiden McGeadys and Kevin Doyles (both sadly absent here), the Paul McShanes, Anthony Stokes and Stephen Irelands, could whet Irish appetites all over again. If we get one genuine wonderkid from the possibilities offered by teenagers Terry Dixon and Jamie McCarthy it would be a huge bonus too.
There's a chance to get past this era of surly non-performance and re-establish ourselves as a team which plays in the spirit of the nation it comes from.
Ireland finish this campaign in Croke Park next October with a game against Cyprus and then a trip to Cardiff the following month. We have become accustomed even in the leaner times to being in the shake-up for qualification right to the last games. This time such a finale is unlikely and Croker and Cardiff could be lonely places in winter.
Lee Carsley spoke the other day about his first qualifying campaign with Ireland when Mick McCarthy brought him into an Irish squad trying to qualify for France '98. It was a campaign with some major setbacks along the way, but we made a play-off series versus Belgium and along the way McCarthy blooded the basis of the side who would reach the next World Cup. Carsley made his debut as a 20-year-old in the home fixture versus Romania.
It took guts back then to bring kids to places like Bucharest and Skopje. Ian Harte was 19 and thrown in at centre back in Bucharest.
We missed a penalty and lost 1-0, but such was the feeling of hope and passion which the game threw up that the FAI offered McCarthy a contract extension on the way home. Sometimes you just need to show that you are on the right road and have the right instinct.
Steve Staunton has the young players with which to implement a four-year plan. He has the remnants of Mick McCarthy's younger teams and the products of Brian Kerr's sterling work all coming into their primes. As a player, Staunton was about guts and motivation and getting the most out of himself.
Tonight, if he starts managing in the same way, he could bring some people with him, but an unadventurous team selection suggests that Staunton isn't ready for that leap.
© 2007 The Irish Times
Stans reluctance to call up depth in positions, whilst prefering to move evperienced players out of position will cost us in the long term. I think you have to have the depth in positions, even if the standeard isn't what it once was. If/When O'Dea or whoever eventually makes the squad on merit as opposed to injuries/unavailibility, their lack of experience will be cited by the management. Let's remove that paticular hurdle by using injuries/unavailibility as opportunities wherever possible. What's to be gained tonight playing JO'S at centre half tonight? Will we learn anything new?
Don't think there's much between Hunt and Kilbane tbh, but again what are we going to learn from Kilbane tonight. I also think Kilbane is in there to support the Ireland/Carsley axis as much as Harte at left full.
Looking forward to seeing Long tonight. Should, on paper anyway, provide a decent compliment for Keane, as would Kehoe. There are so many players I'd like to see tonight but there's only three subs.
Its a bit ridiculous alright playing John O'Shea at CB , a man who is probalbly about 6th choice CB for his club
Heard Stan on Morning Ireland and this was the reasoning he gave for McShanes ommision. Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by rambler14
McShane is over rated and his club form has been useless. That is why he isnt starting. Hes not up to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
Where did you hear that? Just interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyP
I don't even think the bit in bold is true, but if it was... that would be some incentive to cheer on the San Marinionés tonight, wouldn't it? Do you think the Irish players know what's at stake:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphries
Staunton seems to be very led by coaches and managers of the players clubs going by reading this forum
I think most International managers are. You don't really know how good or bad or what potential a player has unless your watching every week in the flesh and watching him at training.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
i think stan said it in one of his interviews just after the squad was named. AFAIK it was on FAI website but i can't find it nowQuote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Average age of tonight's side is 26. Going by the famous '4-year plan' (1 year down already) these lads will be almost 30 on average by the time the next World Cup comes around. Seems to me like it's just something for Staunton to say during press conferences rather than any deep-seated philosophy...
He's started every game bar 1 since coming on as a sub against Sheffield Wednesday in November: http://www.soccerbase.com/players_de...playerid=11080Quote:
Originally Posted by finnpark
He isn't starting tonight because he's on a yellow and it's not worth the risk of losing him for the Welsh game
ya but its not technically 4 years till the next world cup....plus qualification will be within just over 2.5 years....but i know what you are sayingQuote:
Average age of tonight's side is 26. Going by the famous '4-year plan' (1 year down already) these lads will be almost 30 on average by the time the next World Cup comes around. Seems to me like it's just something for Staunton to say during press conferences rather than any deep-seated philosophy...
It's actually 26 years and 3 months by my reckoning so June 2010 would give an average age of 29 and 7 months for these same players.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
26 - 27 is often judged to be a players peak so it's really only Henderson, Ireland and Long that fit the 'give youth a chance' theme tonight.
I've said beofre we have a bit of a time bomb around our players retiring. I know we may have no faith in some of them but Finnan, Dunne, Harte, Kilbane, O'Shea, Carsley, Duff and Keane will all leave within a few years of each other. That means we may need to replace 8 players in one campaign. It's another reason not to keep picking Kilbane and O'Shea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint
I would be a bit worried if that team was to start against Wales or Slovakia. We'll be fine tonight, but the centre of midfield really worries me. We've got Carsley - a very limited player coming to the end of his career - playing alongside Ireland, who I don't believe has the physique or footballing brain to become a top-class midfielder. He'll more than likely end up like Miller, McPhail or Mahon - a luxury player for a Championship club.
Staunton has picked a lop-sided squad - What's the point in picking five players (O'Brien, Hunt, Duff, Kilbane, S. Quinn) for one position? Left-midfield is not a problem for us. Staunton should be looking to bolster our options in the central areas in midfield and defence. We've lost Cunningham, Staunton himself, Breen, Roy Keane, Kinsella and Holland since 2002. Solid replacements have not since materialised, apart from Dunne. Staunton should be looking to bolster those areas instead of pointing out the glut of strikers and left-wingers we have.
Eirebhoy... What's O'Dea like? Any use?