Guardian article on Irish speakers.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

my excuse..............the way it was taught in school was shameful, beaten into you, and taught like english in that you know how to speak it, should have been taught like a foreign language from scratch
and how come irish teachers were always the worst teachers around, the bullyboys, and the thick!

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I think that is a very valid point and it has to some extent been addressed of late.

This Government, despite all its failings and errors has done more for the Irish language during its tenure in office than ANY previous Government, particularly Minister Ó Cúiv. Even Herr McDowell deserves praise. They've reformed the methods teaching the language, they've given the language new relevence in a modern world with the Official Languages Act and the EU status and other schemes. Whilst teaching a language in a new and improved way is vital it'd all be for nought if there was no end point save for learning a language just for the language's sake. Now for the first time since the foundation of the state the Government is finally paying more than just lip service to the national language and long may it continue.

Also on the Gaelscoileanna, niece and nephew are in big one in Cork and at last count there were 15 :eek: different nationalities attending, speaking and learning exclusively through Irish!

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Originally Posted by SÓC

Also on the Gaelscoileanna, niece and nephew are in big one in Cork and at last count there were 15 :eek: different nationalities attending, speaking and learning exclusively through Irish!

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in fairness it'll be worth the effort to watch Sacar Beo, right?

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Originally Posted by ConorH

That's a fairly powerful statement to make.What justifies it?TYou could say that about any country in the world so?

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Of course you could, I still stand by it

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Misguided? Studies (like this one from the EU - pdf download) have shown that having a strong sense of belonging to a community - a town, a family, a country - increases people's general happiness and sense of well-being. You can argue all you like whether or not the Irish language would add to that - personally I feel it would - but to dismiss as misguided people who feel they have a common bond or a sense of belonging is just ignorance.

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Community being the key word for me there

I have a strong sense of feeling like a Limerick person. I've a strong sense of pride in my city (Although sometimes...............) But let's be honest. What do I have in common with someone from say Castlebar other than some vague notion of "Irishness" an Irishness which I personally find to be largely abhorrent.

Stop flogging the dead horse of people not liking Irish because they had to do it at school too please. Maybe that's true in some cases but personally I don't see why I would hate Irish more than say Honours Maths or Geography. Tracing it all back to school is just lazy

Do you think it should be compulsory??

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Stop flogging the dead horse of people not liking Irish because they had to do it at school too please. Maybe that's true in some cases but personally I don't see why I would hate Irish more than say Honours Maths or Geography. Tracing it all back to school is just lazy

Do you think it should be compulsory??

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But Irish was not taught to you in the manner that Honurs maths was. It was thought as a language with the assumption that you spoke it already and that reading the rantings of an old woman from some Island would help you understand it.

I think that Irish should be 100% compulsory, best way to preserve it and encourgage its use. That doesnt mean that I think the present system is flawless though

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Originally Posted by SÓC

I think that Irish should be 100% compulsory ... encourgage its use.

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Hasn't worked so far. The only real difference between the FF and FG on the issue is whether it's compulsory, and whether it should count towards points for the leaving. I've no problem with it being compulsory, but the latter concerns me tbh - Irish shouldn't be preventing someone who is excellent at the sciences (for example) from attaining the points for medicine. Could be argued that's more an arguement for reform of the points system I suppose.

You can't have the debate about Irish Language Schools, particularly with regard to the middle classes, without bringing in the class size factor. One of the main factors which lead to their popularity in recent years was that class sizes were smaller. So is it down to a real desire for the language or knock on effect of the fact that the rest of the education is cronically short of teachers, buildings etc?

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Originally Posted by SÓC

I think that Irish should be 100% compulsory, best way to preserve it and encourgage its use. That doesnt mean that I think the present system is flawless though

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Would you really rather your son or daughter learn Irish when they could be learning something useful like German, French, Spanish or Italian??

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Would you really rather your son or daughter learn Irish when they could be learning something useful like German, French, Spanish or Italian??

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how useful was french or german to youin later life? didnt do me much good

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Originally Posted by Macy

Hasn't worked so far. The only real difference between the FF and FG on the issue is whether it's compulsory, and whether it should count towards points for the leaving. I've no problem with it being compulsory, but the latter concerns me tbh - Irish shouldn't be preventing someone who is excellent at the sciences (for example) from attaining the points for medicine. Could be argued that's more an arguement for reform of the points system I suppose.

You can't have the debate about Irish Language Schools, particularly with regard to the middle classes, without bringing in the class size factor. One of the main factors which lead to their popularity in recent years was that class sizes were smaller. So is it down to a real desire for the language or knock on effect of the fact that the rest of the education is cronically short of teachers, buildings etc?

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Huge differences between FF and FG on Irish language issues (one of the few areas where there are substantive differences). FG have done nothing for the language when in power, its one issue which the present FF led government has really delivered upon. The EU status was on the table year and years ago but FG decided they didnt want it back then. When it comes down to education even there are differences, although not quite as pronounced in areas such as justice and access to services. Mainly in levels of funding, third level and of course Enda's talk of making Irish non-compulsory which I have not heard much of lately.

You point about points ( :) ) is a valid one, but then again people do seven subjects so Irish doesnt have to count.

Any Irish language school I've seen or been in the last 15 years has had very large class sizes but I dont know what they're like in comparrison to English language schools tbh.

If/when I have children Lim till I Die I plan to teach them Irish from day one, at the same time as I'm teaching them English. I'm strange that way I think people knowing their national language is useful. Also I managed to learn French and German despite spending my time learning Irish too. At the moment I'm learning Welsh and as Lopez said earlier, the more languages you speak the easier it is to learn others.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

how useful was french or german to youin later life? didnt do me much good

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I'll let you know ;)

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Originally Posted by SÓC

If/when I have children Lim till I Die I plan to teach them Irish from day one, at the same time as I'm teaching them English. I'm strange that way I think people knowing their national language is useful. Also I managed to learn French and German despite spending my time learning Irish too. At the moment I'm learning Welsh and as Lopez said earlier, the more languages you speak the easier it is to learn others.

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How so??

Civil Service??

Primary Teaching??

Tg4??

After that I'm a bit stumped :o

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

How so??

Civil Service??

Primary Teaching??

Tg4??

After that I'm a bit stumped :o

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Every day communication, you know, talking, typing texting etc ;)

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Originally Posted by SÓC

Every day communication, you know, talking, typing texting etc ;)

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As Gaeilge??

Every Day??

A ludicrous notion for all but maybe 5% of the population :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Would you really rather your son or daughter learn Irish when they could be learning something useful like German, French, Spanish or Italian??

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I studied German for two years at college, having learnt it since I was ten. I've been working nearly six years and have never used it. I've used Irish though. Foreign languages are overrated because everyone speaks English anyway. It's nice to have, but still overrated.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Irish shouldn't be preventing someone who is excellent at the sciences (for example) from attaining the points for medicine. Could be argued that's more an arguement for reform of the points system I suppose.

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I think your second line is accurate - you can argue your case for any subject, not just Irish. And most people do more than six subjects, so they can drop their weakest one in their points tally. And the points system is more to highlight those who show an aptitude for learning in general, not just in specific areas, which I think is important.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Community being the key word for me there

I have a strong sense of feeling like a Limerick person. I've a strong sense of pride in my city (Although sometimes...............) But let's be honest. What do I have in common with someone from say Castlebar other than some vague notion of "Irishness" an Irishness which I personally find to be largely abhorrent.

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I think this is utter drivel, to be honest.

I go to a lot of the Irish away games. I notice cultural differences between me - and every Irish fan, no matter where they come from - and the country I'm visiting. I notice these same links when I'm on an away trip with UCD. Irishness is a very strong link throughout the country and can't be dismissed as lightly as you just have. In the sense of the report, Ireland constitues a community every bit as much as Limerick does.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I go to a lot of the Irish away games. I notice cultural differences between me - and every Irish fan, no matter where they come from - and the country I'm visiting. I notice these same links when I'm on an away trip with UCD. Irishness is a very strong link throughout the country and can't be dismissed as lightly as you just have. In the sense of the report, Ireland constitues a community every bit as much as Limerick does.

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Good for you. You obviously feel this way because you subscribe to the whole Irish thing.

I don't therefore don't feel these links

There are obviously going to be cultural differences between different regions because of the way history has evolved. This doesn't make me feel any more "Irish"

Do you really feel it necessary to tell me how I should feel about "My" country :confused:

I would disagree totally with your last point. Don't have much community spirit for Dublin or Mullingar or Carrickmacross

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

You obviously feel this way because you subscribe to the whole Irish thing.

I don't therefore don't feel these links.

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Well, then I would say that your views on the subject are utterly irrelevant. I would also say that you're in a rather small minority. And, to be honest, I pity you, because I now have an EU report saying that I'm generally happier than you and am going to live longer as a result. :)

That :) shows just how happy I am! :p

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

As Gaeilge??

Every Day??

A ludicrous notion for all but maybe 5% of the population :rolleyes:

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Every day.

Its every bit as ludicrous as you speaking English everyday?

I've had jobs where the entire job was conducted exclusively through Irish, I've gone to school through Irish, did Irish at University and generally speak Irish to friends of mine who I know from those periods of my life. Why wouldnt I speak Irish to them? Hell I've even spoken Irish to Rovers fans in Cardiff for my sins!

Next week we'll get Travellers to settle, sure they could all just live in houses like.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Well, then I would say that your views on the subject are utterly irrelevant. I would also say that you're in a rather small minority. And, to be honest, I pity you, because I now have an EU report saying that I'm generally happier than you and am going to live longer as a result.

That shows just how happy I am!

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:D shows I'm clearly happier then your pitiful :)

I've no doubt I'm in a small minority, I don't really care though

And thank you for the pity, every little helps :p

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Originally Posted by SÓC

Every day.

Its every bit as ludicrous as you speaking English everyday?

I've had jobs where the entire job was conducted exclusively through Irish, I've gone to school through Irish, did Irish at University and generally speak Irish to friends of mine who I know from those periods of my life. Why wouldnt I speak Irish to them? Hell I've even spoken Irish to Rovers fans in Cardiff for my sins!

Next week we'll get Travellers to settle, sure they could all just live in houses like.

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Replace the "could" with a "should" and you'll be on to something there ;)

Congratulations on all the Irish speaking, I'm sure it's very nice. Doesn't really reflect the experiences of 99% of the population though does it

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Replace the "could" with a "should" and you'll be on to something there ;)

Congratulations on all the Irish speaking, I'm sure it's very nice. Doesn't really reflect the experiences of 99% of the population though does it

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You'd be surpised how much everyday Irish speakers there are out there.

The language of choice for the Cork Hurling panel is mostly Irish. Legal community in Cork conduct a lot of their dealings in Irish, Judges with Irish were appointed there.

Walk around Kildare Street area some day and you'll hear a lot of Irish too. Same goes for Monkstown and Rathfarnham

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Congratulations on all the Irish speaking, I'm sure it's very nice. Doesn't really reflect the experiences of 99% of the population though does it

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Nor does your attitude towards "being irish" so it works both ways...

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Nor does your attitude towards "being irish" so it works both ways...

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Indeed it does and I've taken my flak in good spirit

Unfortunately though as of yet the Irish Government doesn't set aside money for the promotion of "Not Feeling Irish" so what's your point :confused:

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Originally Posted by SÓC

You'd be surpised how much everyday Irish speakers there are out there.

The language of choice for the Cork Hurling panel is mostly Irish. Legal community in Cork conduct a lot of their dealings in Irish, Judges with Irish were appointed there.

Walk around Kildare Street area some day and you'll hear a lot of Irish too. Same goes for Monkstown and Rathfarnham

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Fine 98.99999% it is so :p

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Good for you. You obviously feel this way because you subscribe to the whole Irish thing.

I don't therefore don't feel these links

There are obviously going to be cultural differences between different regions because of the way history has evolved. This doesn't make me feel any more "Irish"

Do you really feel it necessary to tell me how I should feel about "My" country

I would disagree totally with your last point. Don't have much community spirit for Dublin or Mullingar or Carrickmacross
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I would say Good for us all, not just pineapple stu, if this is how you think. Good to know that not one person I have met that is Irish, anywhere anytime thinks like this.

To be honest I think this whole thread is irrelevant, Irish is a dead language now and should be left to rest in peace. If there was ever a time to bring it back in as the official language of Ireland than it would have been after the War of Independence, or at least after the Civil War had settled down. Back then people had an interest in Irishness and would have made the effort to speak it in day to day life, why De Valera never brought it in is beyond me, but either way he didn't and Irish is pretty much finished as a language. If people are so worried about it than send your kids to an all-Irish speaking Primary School, I was and could speak it fluently after I left the school.

On the whole notion of being Irish, well outside of having Americans fawning over me for being Irish I'm sure I have very little in common with most Irish people so I don't get the whole Irish culture thing. I don't even know what being Irish is supposed to mean to be honest, and I'm sure 95% of the people posting on this thread won't be able to give me a reasonable answer to what it does mean either

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Originally Posted by jebus

I don't even know what being Irish is supposed to mean to be honest, and I'm sure 95% of the people posting on this thread won't be able to give me a reasonable answer to what it does mean either

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It distinguishes you from the English :D

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Originally Posted by jebus

To be honest I think this whole thread is irrelevant, Irish is a dead language now and should be left to rest in peace. If there was ever a time to bring it back in as the official language of Ireland than it would have been after the War of Independence, or at least after the Civil War had settled down. Back then people had an interest in Irishness and would have made the effort to speak it in day to day life, why De Valera never brought it in is beyond me, but either way he didn't and Irish is pretty much finished as a language. If people are so worried about it than send your kids to an all-Irish speaking Primary School, I was and could speak it fluently after I left the school.

On the whole notion of being Irish, well outside of having Americans fawning over me for being Irish I'm sure I have very little in common with most Irish people so I don't get the whole Irish culture thing. I don't even know what being Irish is supposed to mean to be honest, and I'm sure 95% of the people posting on this thread won't be able to give me a reasonable answer to what it does mean either

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Ka Loo Ka Laaay

I knew it would take a fellow Limerick head to get it :)

A new breakaway country, F.I.R Limerick, is in order.
(Former Irish Republic)

At least we could win the league that way.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

I knew it would take a fellow Limerick head to get it :)

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It's a Limerick head (by birth) who's arguing against you too. ;)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It's a Limerick head (by birth) who's arguing against you too. ;)

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The bright lights of the capital changed you man

You used to be cool :p

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Originally Posted by osarusan

A new breakaway country, F.I.R Limerick, is in order.
(Former Irish Republic)

At least we could win the league that way.

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I dunno

Pike, Ballananty, Janesboro et al, it would be really tight :)