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Don't think anyone is saying that. Anyone who even keeps a remote eye on the league or posts/views on this website will know that most people have acknowledged that it's a good deal for Bohs because the boy doesn't look anything special.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooperatzi
Can this forum have one single thread without self-righteous posts relating back to the EL? Lazy references to the ole ole brigade and plastic hammers are just rhetorical rubbish and nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooperatzi
This notion of EL fans being the only true Irish football fans smacks of the worst elements within the GAA. Funny that.
:rolleyes:
Dear HooperatziQuote:
Originally Posted by Hooperatzi
Please accept my sincerest apologies for attempting to inform people that don't bother to take the time to read the Eircom League thread (heathens) about another Irish player who will most likely be playing for a massive English club in the second tier of English football. I have obviously overstepped my mark and for that I will be eternally sorry. I shall never do it again oh all seeing all knowing one.
Thanking You
youngirish
Typical Olér attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
Go inflate your plastic hammer. :D
Thread is staying here, Get back on topic!
Lot of the Bohs fans dont rate him too highly , I mean they think he is a good player and all but think that the price is a great price for him.
They don't allow plastic hammers into the corporate suites, unfortunately. I must go and get one of those nylon t-shirts that so many of those fellows in the stands seem to be wearing. Where do you get one and what's our team again?Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
;)
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Originally Posted by Donal81
:o :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
Rubbish. EL fans are the only true Irish football fans. Nothing to do with the GAA. FACT:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
KOH
Good move for all concerned, Bohs, Ward and Ireland. Never stood out playing for Bohs but I saw him twice at U21 and he impressed me. Hopefully, he can make the step up now to the International FirstTeam squad as we need more options up front.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
Has your alter ego never read any of my posts on our forum?
Getting slightly back on topic, there's sod all eL fans can do re. the olé olérs but Dodge's post telling them about the merits or not of Ward is at least educating them.
Anything that stops the "He's in England, he must be good" rubbish has to be a good thing. For what it's worth I think Ward is gash - that may be Farrelly related though - but it's good business for Bohs.
KOH
Who's "them"? We follow the Irish national team as much as you follow Rovers. We follow the U-17s, U-19s, U-21s. We keep track of pretty much every Irish professional footballer.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
You may find it annoying that there's so many Irish people that don't support the league and I'm exact same when it comes to the national team. If Ward only becomes known to some people when he joins Wolves (although you won't find those people here) I can understand how it annoys you as I'm the same when people see someone like Kevin Foley or Jay Tabb in the Ireland squad and they have to ask who they are. If you're an Ireland fan you should know who these players are from the underage system. If you're not an Ireland supporter then you are to me what youngirish is to you. Simple as that.
In defence of myself I am well and always have been well aware of Stephen Ward. I know all about most of the players that have played at our youth levels in recent years. My previous posts should clarify that.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
I reckon I know far more about most of our young players than the majority of the EL brigade which if they'd pull their head out of their arses and read a few of my previous they'd come to realise deep in their hearts that I speak the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
He does play for Ireland at U21 level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
whether you (or anyone else) ever heard of him is not the point - the point is some people posting here seem to equate a move to england as a sign that the player is suddenly great
someone even went on to suggest doyle had been "developed" in his short time at reading (dOYLE IS A MATURE PLAYER - with wide experience - is game will evolve but the implication being that there was 70,000 to 5 million worth of "development" is preposterous and yes - insulting to the quality of football he faced here)
he's not some raw talent who was polished off by the english - he was a developed player in his own right
Fair enough. I'll tell you one thing though, I tipped Doyle for the Eircom league top scorer at the start of his last season there. :) Out of about 15 people (on the old soccercentral forum) I was probably the only one going for Doyle, a few were going for Daryl Murphy, most for Byrne. He was miles ahead of everyone before he moved to Reading afair. So even at the start of that season not many EL fans knew how good he was. I appreciate he wasn't playing regularly up front before that though.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Not many soccercentral forumites knew about him. Us pats fan did though
And lets not go over the whole following the national team is just as legitimate as the a club side as we've gone over it a thousand times. Its not ;)
Exactly. Pity some people have to change the debate into eL v non-eL.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
:rolleyes:
It's simply something that can't be answered. It's not a decision we even make. Our heart does the choosing. My heart will always have Ireland above anything in sport. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Look whether you want to call it development or evolution is irrelevant. Doyle is a better player now thean he was a year ago, never mind 2 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
You keep assuming that somehow the value of a player is a sign of how good the buying club thinks he is. It isn't. I never said he had got 80 times better. He was 'worth' 70,000 18 months ago because that's the max the market would pay. He is 'worth' more than 5 million now as that is a bid that has been rejected. As an example Sylvain Distin is a quality Central Defender but is likely to be sold for less than 1 million pounds. That is no reflection of his quality, it's a financial equation. Equally if Ward was a Shelbourne player he probably would have been bought for less money as they need to sell more than Boh's.
Incorrect. That's the max the market was allowed to pay, he had a minimum fee clause. I'm sure a Cork fan will explain, if there's one thing this thread needs it's a Dolan debate. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
I don't know the detail at all. However the max the market is allowed to pay is entirely differerent to a minimum fee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumi
Anyway I think Cavan fan is correct. The market is defined by competition. If other clubs were interested at the time the market would have generated a higher price.
I'm not sure how the minimum fee clause works but if another club had offered 200,000 could Cork have rejected Reading's offer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumi
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
CAVAN FAN STOP getting hung up on the doyle thing - it was a misleading transfer - which has skewed this debate and cloaked the underlying trend - because of background club politics between opposing parties.
It is not an instructive example - in fact it is now clear in the light of Ward and Molloy's recent moves - to be a totally misleading anomally. By the way - I've seen plenty of Doyle post and pre transfer - there has been no great improvement in his game. We're talking about a player who had reached senior status, played in his national league, played in Europe, played at various international level sides. Theres literally not much you can do with someone like Doyle at his age - he comes "as is" to the game in England and just applied himself and did his stuff as he did previously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Typical Dodge statement.
I can assure you that many old soccercentral forumites knew of Doyle, some of them Pats fans others like EB not.
For the record, while I recognised Doyle had potential I didn't ever think he would have such goalscoring success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
If I can track him down I'll ask him....
Well I have been posting on SC for the last 4.5 years and I knew about him too because I'm from Wexford. Can't say I know him personally but I know his family (ah little Ireland). I admit I didn't take much notice of him when he was at Pats but when he started banging in the goals for Cork and I realised he was from just up the road I always kept and eye out for the Cork results. Like SC I never expected him to be the success that he has been.Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
As a side note, I totally disagree with the people who say he hasn't improved since leaving Cork. That's bull, he wasn't even 22 when he moved and since then has played a season and a half. Any player getting an extended run of competitive first team football at that age is going to improve.
The argument should be if he would have improved as much if he stayed with Cork - maybe.
Relax I was kidding. Just pointing out how his sample of 15 el fans was flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
YES iRISH Praha - because he never had an extended run of first team football before he left these shores? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Praha
I just can be done with some of these posts. They're ludicrous sometimes.
You have mail old chap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
KOH
Getting back to Stephen Ward, he doesn't seem to be an out and out goalscorer... statistically anyway. And haven't heard he's anything outstanding aswell, not someone who warrants a fee totalling 500K anyway. Personallly I think O'Donovan is worth that, he's a class act and the one most capable of doing a Kevin Doyle...
This is the O'Donovan who didn't score for 3 months of the season. Not a world beater either. Standard LOI footballers.Quote:
Originally Posted by republicofwhite
When I mean doing a Doyle, I dont neccessarily mean banging in goals. O'Donovan is more of a winger cum striker then out and out striker anyway isn't he? Its not about goalscoring with him, moreso about pace and and bit of flair. I mean he looks like he could well do a job in England.
Apparently he has a trial with Celtic lined up. Will there be anydecent players left in the EL by the end of January? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by republicofwhite
Praha said any player getting an extended run of football at his age, whcih he cant have had at Cork.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
By the way happened to notice this post from you at the time of Doyle's trasnfer.
No. I didn't think that at all. The point you are making makes absolutely no sense. You drew the comparisons with Chelsea/Barca and Cork pal not me. Guess what ? - Chelsea/Barca can and do retain their best players most of the time (figo move accepted if you wanna get technical) - Cork City cant even compete with fcking Reading. Big difference in scale. For both Cork (transfer fee) and Doyle (improvement in his career) the move makes perfect sense. It wont catch on at Barca and Chelsea - cos they are unlikey to be in competion with the likes of Reading when it comes to retaining players (and there arent too many big clubs who can compete with those two either). It will happen at Cork because LoI clubs cannot compete financialy with most UK outfits.
edit: Pete saw your post after i posted - the Doyle and Murphy fees are a reflection of where its at - you might not like it but thats about right.
Just to clarify does that make you racist or an Uncle Tom?
Come on wws, I think it's pretty clear what Irish_Praha was saying. Of course Doyle has improved as a player since his move from Cork. I'd find it pretty strange if he didn't improve after a year and a half of playing football. Read his post again.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
I'm chuffed you did a trawl through all my posts! Fair play to you.
Btw atko a total racist - too many examples to go into. His comments on Irish people in the McGrath book a revealing insight into his mindset....not that we expected much from the big Desailly fan.
Uncle Toms - "unneccessarily accommodating" - I think it can be applied to certain ludicrous posts on here - I'm not gonna search back through them all tbh.
The post above - I'm guessing is me having a go at Cork City fans or something (hey its what i do - Im a Pats fan) or else making a really great point about the difference between Barca and Reading. God I'm brilliant. I love reading my old posts. They're great, really really great. I nominate your post quoting me as post of the month.
Gawd do I have to spell it out? My point was that several posters on here have blindly refused to admit that he has improved in the slightest over the last season and a half.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
My point was that when he left Cork he was only 21 and a player usually doesn't reach his peak until his mid to late 20's. Granted some players lose form or don't get games and don't get a chance to improve. However, Doyle is on form and playing every week and is still only 23. So logic would say that he is improving.
Basically all I am saying is that he has actually improved because he is older and has more experience - this can be applied to most things. I'm not saying that he has improved just because he moved to an English club. So IMO it is nonsense to say he still the exact same player since he left Cork. He had played 90 games up until then and has played almost 70 games since then.
point takenQuote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Praha
I mis read your post. Sincere apologies.
I'm sure doyle has improved as a result of working with coppell, the man who brought ian wright into league football and helped mark bright become a top goalscorer. that point should not be overlooked. unfortunatley its hard to see ward benefiting as much under mick macs tutelage!
Eh no! He has rejected a trial at Wolves as he believes he is above going over to some English crowd for a trial, he is right. On Wednesday, there was a quote from him in the Irish Examiner saying that England isn't all that its cracked up to be and he is very happy at Cork City. Unlike most eL players, Roy has no aspirations to go back to England ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Praha
Roy didn't score for the first 5 months of the season but he was then moved up front and got 9 goals in 11 games. IMO, Roy could certainly make as big an impact in England as Doyler and should be given a shot with Ireland.