The GAA received ~€160 million of public money for Croke Park. Most of it was back in the mid 90's when it went a bit further and would buy a hell of a lot more property.
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The GAA received ~€160 million of public money for Croke Park. Most of it was back in the mid 90's when it went a bit further and would buy a hell of a lot more property.
Funny too how the gaa is referred to as some sort of dr.evil figure holed away in a transylvanian castle stroking his cat..Quote:
Originally Posted by khoop
if we are getting into some sort of historical rambling session all sports are foreign to ireland except the gaa.. outrageous comments by and large, i presume you're just trying to stoke a bit of nationalistic debate, lets see who'll be jumping for that ball
are you suggesting influence was exerted over the british government by the catholic church to secure valuable plots of land previously the preserve of viscounts and such? i'll bow to some evidence of this but i'm still in shock at the moment to be doing any such bowing
and to be fair the plots that are being sold are county grounds that are old fashioned and need renovating, which is easiest done by moving out of congested towns to the outskirts where infrastructure is more suitable and the net result will be nicer more comfortable stands for the populous, with money left over to plough back into the grassroots.
begrudgery, but i guess denouncing the opposition is better than trying to improve one's own lot? oh, but its the governments fault sur
Ah the soccer bigots are coming out of their lairs in droves.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Your figures are way off.
No wonder the GAA can play cat and mouse with the Irish soccer. What a bunch of victims.
For developing Croke Park, from circa '98 onwards the GAA have received on ave. €12.5m. p/a for 5 years
then Croke Pk got €15m to develop the Hogan stand for the special olympics
Then came the much hyped strings attached €60m in recent years.
Then add to that whatever since for Hill 16, lights.
FAI and IRFU have been promised €180m?
The lack of accuracy in some of your statements is insane. Luckily I actually know the facts. I love the spin you have put on the figures above, credit where credit is due you make it look good. You should look for a job in the PR dept of the GAA (if you dont have one already).Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
On 1st January 2002, Ireland started using the Euro. The GAA grants, which were never in doubt, (and I can categorically tell you the money was put aside well before any work started or permission was granted), summed to a little over £100m punts which is €128m. Now if you wish I can factor in the rise in inflation from the 90's to 2006 to give a modern day reflection on that loan and if you really are a stickler, I can give you the figures detailing the surplus form which the loan sums are taken to convey the point that the loan given by the government to the GAA (an amateur organisation) far far surpasses that given to the FAI and IRFU combined.
Paul O' Shea I dont know where to start with this!! Croke Park was built by government and tax payers money. Thats just a solid fact. Without that money, the stadium would never have happened. As I said previously the money was put aside well before anyone knew about the idea. It was a done deal. There is nothing more I can say about this, I can just tell you its 100000% fact.Quote:
thta sounds like a mutually exclusive-collectively exhaustive statement, that is so wrong ye dope. some was paid for by the government.....we have been through this before.
Finally bar friendlies the FAI ( per game that is ) will make more money.
On the money per game, perhaps you have seen the figures and I stand corrected if someone who has can tell me otherwise but I have been told that they will not make more money.
Also, I never asked him whether he brings a union jack or not to all games, I only sat beside him once. Its his right to bring whatever flag he wants to a game. Given the GAA's anti-garrison stance, I can totally understand him doing so. That clause in their constitution is an insult and slur to thats mans heritage. I will be VERY interested to see the policy on banners for our games. Hopefully the rovers and EL fans will bring loads of nice banners to hang for the GAA if the rovers issue is not resolved.
Finally I must say, I hope to god that rovers get the green light and all clear for their home in Tallaght.
Conclusive proof of the money for GAA, IRFU & FAI
Croke Park redevelopment: 113.65m (includes 3.65 for floodlights recently)Quote:
John O'Donoghue TD, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, today (Thursday 30th September, 2004) announced that the Government has agreed to provide a further and final grant of €40 million to the GAA over the next two years towards the cost of the redevelopment of Croke Park. €20 million will be paid this year with a further €20 million being paid in 2005. This additional grant will bring the level of Exchequer contribution to €110 million towards the €265 million cost of the whole project.
Lansdowne Road: 191m
I would be surprised if the Croke Park figure included the 15m for the special Olympics.
It should also be highlighted that for their 191m the government will retain a stake in the Lansdowne Road stadium which obviously they don't have in Croke Park. This whole spin that the GAA built Croke Park themselves is clearly bull.
The Soccer versus Gaelic debate will endure for decades to come and beyond.
The stated animosity between the two organisations is all relative to the previous levels of bigotry that existed in the past.
Liam Brady and David O'Leary wote about their experiences of "The Ban" while they attended Christian Brothers Schools. I remember Liam Brady writing that he had to defy a Christian Brother and not turn up for a Gaelic Football game for the school because he had the honour of representing Ireland Schoolboys on the same day. He was suspended. An isolated incident - but symptomatic of the lunatics that were at large at the time.
The expedient and practical necessity is that Croke park has been secured for the Euro Qualifiers and hopefully beyond. Playing in Britain would have been a sad state of affairs.
It makes sound business sense for the GAA and they will derive some positive PR from opening up the ground the the other "codes" - in addition to the obvious monetary gains.
I still have positive vibes for the Croker games - hopefully the lunatic fringes on both sides don't jeopardise that with practically weeks to go to the Welsh game.
Whoa, whats that about??:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
i quoted a few figures that were in previous posts because pete's post was implying that the fai and irfu should individually get what the gaa got when its only one stadium being built. i apologise for using figures that others bandied about, but as my signature says i'm more of an opinions man. it is lucky you are here, well until someone else comes along with new facts at least.
what other inaccurate statements are insane by the way, this is of grave concern to me as even though i live quite near the dundrum mental hospital i've never fancied having a look over those walls..please inform so i can see to this worry.
i dont see the point of the kerfuffle over who gets what anyway. i never question our taoiseach's integrity!!
i am a fair man, a sports fan, and as such i dont think i should be villified for having a balanced few of things. if this was a gaelic forum i'd defend the fai where there were bigots and the same is true here. dont get me wrong though i love a bit of banter, keep it coming
As usual, you are just waffling. The vast majority of the GAA grounds were of course attained after the brits had left. In the 20s and 30s (and later) the Catholic church totally controlled every village in Ireland. Like the GAA, a shower of bigots - and they ensured by coercion that the GAA got whatever they damn wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
It would be VERY interesting if all the county boards who are now presenting themselves as some sort of shrewd property speculators were to publicly state how much the properties cost in the first place. Most likely, nothing. At best, a couple of shillings.
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i fail to see why the gaa could be held responsible for the reprehensible behaviour of a minority few in its voluntary organisation.
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Classic excuse.... if what they are doing is so reprehensible to the majority of GAA members then why don't the majority of GAA members issue a public statement condeming them.Also why aren't they expelled as well ????
Moderator Warning: To All - Please refrain from insults if you want to continue this debate.
do you what know mutually exclusive collectively exhaustive means, if not dont respond, if you do, then respond correctly. I say that because I know you dont. It was IN PART funded by the government, and those supporters of gaelic who go to matches, buy all things gaa and sponsors etc and funnily enough quite a few ( or all but .001% )of these would also be taxpayers. SO dont come out with a sweeping statement that is not mutually exclusive collectively exhaustive unless you can back it up. ;)Quote:
Paul O' Shea I dont know where to start with this!! Croke Park was built by government and tax payers money. Thats just a solid fact. Without that money, the stadium would never have happened. As I said previously the money was put aside well before anyone knew about the idea. It was a done deal. There is nothing more I can say about this, I can just tell you its 100000% fact.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by khoop
Some of the clubs are very, very powerful. I'd like to think that most senior GAA people are way too smart for this squalid little dispute but whether they support it or not, they're in a difficult situation. Much more so than the FAI, the GAA is all about its grassroots and I'd imagine they're treading very carefully with this one. It's not right, of course, but that's politics for you. My own take on it is that these clubs will eventually shoot themselves in the foot and the dispute will be revealed for what it is. The GAA is playing it cute, I think, and leaving the clubs dangle by themselves. There has not been one word from the GAA on this whole thing although the Dublin GAA board issued its support. Very quietly, though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
If Shels, Bohs, Rovers, St. Pats and UCD were trying this on at a GAA ground somewhere, would the Dublin FAI immediately come out and castigate them for it? I doubt it.
Liam Brady was expelled form school because he captained the Irish schoolboy team. Why was it an isolated incident? Con Martin was banned from GAA after playing in the Leinster final. He got caught playing football before the All Ireland, got banned for life and didn't get his Leinster winners medal for over 30 years until the ban wa slifted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
It is more than a lunatic fringe. Over 25% of the GAA congress voted against opening Croke Park. This is still a significant number.
Now perhaps you can give examples of bigotry the other way?
Can you also give examples of the FAI comments that have caused such offence. i know there are numerous GAA writers complaining about the FAI attitude etc
Quote:
Over 25% of the GAA congress
are you getting mixed up with congres or central council?!?! 2 countys (clubs) out of 32 voted against opening it up. that is not 25%. where did you go to school? or were you expelled as well because of playing association football?
Clubs? You might want to get your facts right before you start lecturing others...Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
There it is in a nutshell - the ridiculous belief that the GAA are a vital part of the fabric of Irish society and yet scoffing at the very notion that there might even be a "soccer community".Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
The "soccer community" is the largest sporting community in the state and on the island. Unfortunately we've had decades of neglect from our ruling body but don't let that fool you into thinking that the work of the 1000s of coaches and volunteers every week doesn't actually happen.
The only thing I respect about the GAA is their PR machine. it's very impressive, still doesn't change any of the fundamental truths about the organisiation.
KOH
The 6 NI counties voted against as did Cork and Monaghan.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
There was also virtually all the past presidents and warwickshire I believe.
It has been a long time since I sat in Maths class but 8 out of 32 is approx 25% isn't it?
No they did not. everyone expected it but they didnt.Quote:
The 6 NI counties voted against as did Cork and Monaghan.
congress requires 227 votes for a change, 324 being the total, the problem is some northern counties have more votes than others ( in the north ).....but i see where you are coming from.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/nort...es/4452449.stm
Congress voted it in by 227 votes to 97
"Cavan and Donegal were the only Ulster counties to vote in favour of allowing football and rugby to play at HQ, while all six of the northern counties were against any change"
sorry i thought he said the 9 ulster counties, my bad.
however the second point is still correct
Which you added after the BBC link was added. Not a great day for you and editing is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I was looking for examples of comments made by FAI officials. To the best of my knowledge there were no public statements until recently when Delaney said there was no problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
Numerous GAA writers have been saying "the FAI are getting too cosy" "want photo opportunities" etc etc. Seems to me elements in the GAA are stirring it up internally and trying to blame the FAI.
The GAA are the ones that have had and still have the bigoted rules. It is GAA officials that are coming out with the nonsense like Fogarty and Lynch came out with recently.
Maybe it is time for somebody in the GAA to take on the bigots once and for all.
I find it mildly amusing you are upset by Dervan's article.
The lephant in the room that no journalist has touched yet (Well Kevin Myers did briefly but had to do a crawling piece on how wonderful the GAA were a few weeks later) is continued GAA support for terrorism. On the last sunday in July Nicky Brennan missed all the GAA championship because he travelled to Derry to open Kevin Lynch GAA grounds for Kevin Lynch GAA club. Lynch was a convicted terrorist who died on hunger strike in 1981. The ceremony that included Adams and McGuinness also include a paramilitary parade. It wasn't deemed worthy of a mention in any mainstream paper in the Republic. I wonder if Portadown renamed Shamrock Park Billy Wright Park and the president of the IFA joined in the ceremony with leading Loyalists would it cause an outrage. You bet it would!!!!!
Quote:
Which you added after the BBC link was added. Not a great day for you and editing is it?
No i am hungover, but i didnt edit that, i edited a dif part of it after the bbc link. As i had a dif link before that ;) good man nice try.
Maths lesson number 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
227 Yes Votes
97 No votes.
Total valid poll 324.
97 No votes out of 324
= 29.94% approx
which is
greater than
25%
which was the point you disputed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
I described Liam Brady's situation with the Ireland Schoolboys Team was an isolated incident as I was only referring to this one specific incident that I was aware of. I'm well aware that the Ban was far reaching and devised to keep Soccer in a state of arrested development in this country.
I think Brady himself has written that he bears no animosity towards the GAA over the incident and it was the bidding of one Christian Brother as opposed to the whole GAA organistation banning a 15 year old from playing foreign games.
A bit of balance never does any harm however - the fact that the vote was passed in the first place surely points to the fact that there are broad minded and moderate members within the GAA.
25% of the GAA Congress (Council et all) voting against opening Croker doesn't make them biggots. I'm certainly no GAA apologist (far from it) but in fairness - its their patch.
my point was that some counties have more votes than others.....which would deflect a true representation of the individual counties and supporters "for" within those counties.
If I were in a Rover's shoe, so to say, then I would assume the worst scenaria of intention by the GAA clubs and retaliate appropriatly in order to win for the last time the right to control the use of the Tallaght stadium.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
But save me the eve of destruction evil empire star wars scenario.
The ailing state of professional soccer in Ireland is a victim of it's own ineptitude.
GAA clubs throughout the country have themselves have bought the land, built up the grounds - owned by the members, controlled by the members since the 1900's.
And so have 1000s of football clubs throught the stateQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
And whats your point? which is in better condition?Quote:
And so have 1000s of football clubs throught the state
I blame the church, as my old man says "the church is owned by the community, therefore the land is the communities, not the church". :D
The point was the geysir's point was redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Moderator Notice: All posts referring to bigotry "discussion" will be removed.
The Ban was rigidly enforced. How was Liam Brady an isolated incident. The ban applied whether it was for Home Farm or Fairview or for the Irish schoolboys. Exceptions were only made for really top GAA stars such as Mick Mackey and Mick O'Connell. Even then the Limerick County board had to make Mick Mackey a "Watcher" and the Kerry county board had to pretend a front page photo in the Cork Examiner was made up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Of course there are broadminded and moderate members in the GAA. They are in the majority. They are in a large majority in the Republic of Ireland.
I think the phrase "isolated incident" was a misleading phrase to use on my part. What I'm trying to say is that I don't have any lived experience or further evidence of the Ban on a personal level though am no way suggesting the Ban was not restrictive or unfair to generations that endured it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Where did I scoff? My point was with Dervan acting as chief spokesperson for the soccer community. I played juvenile football for years, never miss a game in Lansdowne, consider it my favourite sport and follow the whole thing religiously but Dervan certainly doesn't speak for me with his childish name-calling and I would have thought he didn't speak for a lot of football fans. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, nowhere did I make the point that you're saying I did. GAA is vital to communities all around the country as are football clubs, obviously, and I've plenty of experience with both.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
They're not paying for this. One person in Thomas Davis is driving the whole thing. My information on this is that Dublin's GAA county board want the whole thing to go away but they've got to go along with their clubs. Also, at least one of the clubs is just putting its name to it out of respect for Thomas Davis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooperatzi
A public example of this was the email sent from Dave Kennedy of Thomas Davis to John Costello of Dublin GAA's Central Council - this wound up in a number of newspapers when the story broke:
"I have also sought to be supportive of a multi-code use [keeping soccer]. Tactically I think this has to be right for now. I'm confident that in any bout with Rovers that the GAA will be the last man standing."
This is filthy, sneaky stuff and indicates what Thomas Davis are really thinking and the whole thing should have ended there. But how did an email sent from Kennedy to Dublin's Central Council end up with newspapers? From the very start, it weakened Thomas Davis and especially this Kennedy fellow. I don't know but there are only so many parties that could have leaked it.
Secondly, when the clubs were considering their legal move, Dublin GAA requested their solicitor to give them legal advice on the matter. They quietly told the solicitor to come back with negative advice. Obviously, it didn't make much difference.
Look, if Croke Park comes out and throws its full lobbying weight behind this, I'll put my hands up and admit to having been extremely naive in thinking that it was a local dispute pushed by a small band of chancers. That hasn't happened yet.
My point is entirely relevant to the homeless state ("the leagues most famous professional club") Shamrock Rovers had got into, which is the football club issue of the day, germane to the thread and to my general opinion that FAI have been doing it ars'eways since decades without any intervention needed by the GAA to help them along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
So why not say, nearly every other football club in Ireland has build a ground rather than bring the GAA into it?
Either way there is no defence for the despicable way Thomas Davis have acted in Tallaght (backed by Dublin GAA and GAA HQ). Thats the bottom line. I have no problem with Croke park receiving massive govt funding and nor did I have a problem with the GAA using it solely for their games (and concerts, conferences and american football - but anyway) but their actions in tallaght are ridiculous.
We can argue the semantics of what ahppened in previous GAA/FAI regimes but today, in tallght, the GAA are completely at fault.
Just because they lower themselves does it mean we have to as well? Just because they do it does it make it ok? Don't see why can't be debated without the abuse. If you have an issue with it you can make a complaint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooperatzi
This is a FACT I wish the GAA apologists would get into their heads!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge