Dundalk win the play-off

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Originally Posted by gael353

you naturally would know more of the inside dealings at your club then i would so calm down a little. But how many times in the last few years have waterford and other clubs ran into financial trouble mid season etc

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Think Mental Man was a touch irate because it was a lazy assumption you made. You rubbished his point about Waterford being financially sound, but they are. They have f*ck all, but they don't owe anything. Because they have f*ck all people just lazily assume they're up to their eyes in debt, but not so.
How many times in the last few years have Waterford ran into financial trouble? I'd say once, when the previous but one chairman left and took what he was owed from a high-profile transfer with him. A period of turmoil accrued from this but things are now on an even keel again, and have been for some time. They've never been unable to pay players, for example, something even the best aren't able to say.

This thread is interesting for the debate about Dublin Clubs versus a support base in the country. (I've lost all interest in who will be in what league and will wait 'till this day 2 weeks before I start jumping up and down eiother in rage or joy).

Rightly or wrongly, we used to slag off the likes of Drogheda, Dundalk, Lonfgord, Athlone, Monaghan and Kilkenny on the basis that their team coaches for HOME games left from Clondalkin, Swords, Finglas or any other Dublin suburb you care to name.

There was no great malice in this. It was part & parcel of match banter, (especially when we were losing:( )

Also, we benefitted plenty ourselves over the years from Dublin based players doing their bit for us - not least when we won our only trophy of note.

Sorry to be long winded, but the bottom line is a lot of clubs field teams that have a high percentage of Dublin based players reagrdless of their location around the country & I don't think this helps their support base - UNLESS of course they are winning all the time!!!

Mytown I have had people whinge at me nonstop bout the lack of Monaghan Lads playing for the club but that has been changing and our crowds have been increasing as a result so there is something in it. This season there were 11 local lads used regularly on the squad with 4 or so being used consistently. Next season that will be increased further. The change is so much so that we dont use a bus to bring our players from Dublin, those that play for us car pool now. Having said that one of our most consistent Monaghan lads is in college in Dublin now and we have lost 2 other locals to Dublin teams for college or work reasons so whilst we may do our best to have locals, they may still be based in Dublin!

Sean Drog there is no denying that you're views are clearly influenced by your total dislike towards Dundalk, not once in my post or previous one on this thread did i state that we should be 'selected' for the new premier lge, I was making a point of a job well done in the play off. Now add this to the great work the club did in making progress in ground improvements (past and future), tax compliance, marketing, overall improving how we do run the club, etc etc, then MAYBE we have now made it difficult for the FAI/IAG to make their final selection.

For my money we needed to have won the divsion to have any chance as our on the field record was so poor for the past 3 years. For whats its worth, I do think we have left it too late and that we wont be invited.

My points are valid and honest. In comparsion no matter what boxes we tick, your clouded view is you simply do not WANT Dundalk invited.

Its as simple as that, why dont you admit it.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

The worst two teams I've ever seen in the premier have been Bray andWaterford this year. Its disgraceful that they won't be relegated tbh

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How can Bray be relegated when they finished outside the relegation places?
Waterford were relegated in the play-off, or hadn't you noticed?

As regards getting invited to the new Premier division, if it happens for Bray or Waterford it'll be because they finished in the top 12 based on the criteria laid down by the FAI and agreed by all clubs except Monaghan and, I think, CHF. Disgraceful doesn't come into it. I personally think it's a disgrace that night follows day, week in week out, with never a bit of variety in the sequence, but what are you going to do?

A few points to clear things up for certain people:

- Waterford were godawful this season.

- We were going to be in the new 'Premiership' even if we lost EVERY game this season (I think Mike Kerley set out spoecifically to prove this theory:o ).

- As much fun as it was to wind up Dundalk by singing "Thank you very much to John Delaney, thank you very much, thank you very, very much", that eejit has NO loyalty to the Blues. Milo Corcoran is a Blue, neither Delaney nor Bob Breen are. We were just a stepping stone to higher office. If they didn't get a job at Waterford, they would have gone to Kilkenny or somewhere else - proffessional bureaucrats, expect no favours from them.

- There is a NEW league next year. Entry to this league is determined by a number of criteria which were set out (vaguely) at the start of the season and which Waterford have attempted to satisfy.

- Our weekly wage bill for the first half of this season was, I would imagine, less than that of the combined weekly wages of Alan Moore and Glen Crowe.

- We no longer have any debt and only pay the wages that we can afford.

- Unlike other clubs, we have received full clearance from the Revenue, have not had winding-up orders and are not losing money every week.

- Dublin City had a good half season and would have been even better if they had signed Ronaldinho, Henry and other players they couldn't afford to pay.

- Dundalk looked a decent side in the play-offs and would have been even better if they had signed Ronaldinho, Henry and other players they couldn't afford to pay.

- The play-off was worth something in the region of 10 to 20 of the 1000 entry points.

- By finishing bottom of the Premier, we were ranked 13th of the 21 teams for this season's 200 entry points. Dundalk were 12th. The play-off gave us the opportunity to take 12th place ahead of them which we failed to do.

- This may p*ss people off, but the truth is the play-off was of less consequence than things like the parking and disabled facilities at the RSC.

- Call us lick**ses if you like, but we did everything the FAI asked us to do. We stopped spending money we didn't have, we are adding new turnstiles, a new stand, separate toilets for away fans, etc.

- I repeat: we were godawful this year.....but there was a reason for it - we were remaining within budget and putting a huge effort into preparing the club for next season's Premiership.

- While we could badly do with a sugar daddy and will be operating within a strict budget, there is money for us to assemble a decent team for next season which should see us competing well in the division.

- Congrats to Dundalk on winning on Saturday night and I hope that injured player at the end is alright because it looked to be a very serious situation.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

No it doesn't. The worst two teams I've ever seen in the premier have been Bray andWaterford this year. Its disgraceful that they won't be relegated tbh

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Worse than Harps last year!!! :eek:

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Originally Posted by Philly

The odd season in D1 is coupled with poor attendances and poor marketability. Basically, I feel there are too many clubs better than UCD for them to be put in the Premier Division. I suppose you guys will get some Marketing students to draw up a huge marketing plan and all though, so you never know :)

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Yep, the whole of south Dublin means we've got poor marketability compared to, say, Longford or Sligo. Our attendances are woeful compared to Longford, Bray or Waterford. And as for the length of time we've spend in Division One...

Well done Bluemovie i think u have summed it up completely, and let this be now cos this could go on and on and on and still some people out there will still argue about it, every club signed up for it at the start of the season so it cant be changed now.

tbh, i think dundalk fans have something to complain about here, lets not forget that the reason they were in the first division in the first place was cos the league was cut to ten teams and they finished eleventh, just a whisker behind us... even one more season in the prem div would have made a huge difference to them as regards their final standing in the rankings and in terms of history thay are after all one of the most famous names in irish football.. just a thought.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Yep, the whole of south Dublin means we've got poor marketability compared to, say, Longford or Sligo. Our attendances are woeful compared to Longford, Bray or Waterford. And as for the length of time we've spend in Division One...

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Half of the South of Dublin probably doesn't know that the club exists. How many Leinster fans cared to turn up for free again earlier this season?

Marketing isn't just about the place. It's about a lot of factors, including the product. Obviously people don't go to UCD matches for a reason.

As for comparing your crowds to other clubs. The fact that you are in Dublin raises your attendances a lot as you can rely on fans of Bohs, Shels, Bray, Drogheda, St Pats coming in their numbers. The amount of home fans at UCD games is a lot less than the likes of Logford games.

The way you go on about marketing is silly.

I can't say to a businessman:

I have a business idea. I is very marketable because it is based in the South of Dublin and there isn't much comopetition for the product there.

The very fact that the team is located on Belfield takes away from the positive aspects of the location of the club anyway. People from outside the college will think it's a college thing and most students would rather go boozing or actually study than go to a match.

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Originally Posted by monkey magic

tbh, i think dundalk fans have something to complain about here, lets not forget that the reason they were in the first division in the first place was cos the league was cut to ten teams and they finished eleventh, just a whisker behind us... even one more season in the prem div would have made a huge difference to them as regards their final standing in the rankings and in terms of history thay are after all one of the most famous names in irish football.. just a thought.

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Monkey - great name !

Thanks for kind words, you are close, we finished 10th out of 12 that season, (top 9 stayed up + winner of first div + no play off) think we finished a point or was it goal difference behind you in 9th but a massive points gap clear of of the team who came 11th, im sure it was Galway.

Anyway no point crying over split milk, our real damage was done seasons 2002/03 and 2003, what a time to have your worst ever seasons in history, think we came 2nd last and 3rd last. A disgrace to all involved.

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Originally Posted by Philly

Marketing isn't just about the place. It's about a lot of factors, including the product. Obviously people don't go to UCD matches for a reason.

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Marketing or marketability - which is it? There's a big difference. Anyone can show marketability, whicih is what you've been rabbiting on about up until now. Arguably every club in the league fails when it comes to marketing themselves.

I believe clubs are being judges on marketability. Am I right?

If so, how do you think UCD fares so? I'll let you "rabbit on" for a bit....

God I'm glad Ididn't go to UCDD.....

I think there's a good potential to market UCD but as of now the club lack the resources to do so due to money constraints and lack of staff. If UCD retain their premier status and get a club promotion officer that might help the club to some degree.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

I think there's a good potential to market UCD but as of now the club lack the resources to do so due to money constraints and lack of staff. If UCD retain their premier status and get a club promotion officer that might help the club to some degree.

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Agreed.

Out of interest, what efforts are currently made to promote the club to the student body?

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Originally Posted by Philly

Agreed.

Out of interest, what efforts are currently made to promote the club to the student body?

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Club merchandise will be put on sale in the Students Union shop very soon. It's a small step in a positive direction.

Cool. Maybe fixtures could be given into all student accommodation.

Get the goals shown on UCDTV (or whatever it is you call the college station!).

Make attending games an Arts module. After all watching the eL would probablly teach a student more than half the modules offered. And Horizons allows for just about anything to be part of a course!

Get fixtures printed on coasters for the bar and place mats for the canteens.

Get the club involved with the SU, when they aren't busy fighting for free refreshments after their meetings that is...

The Bowl needs a bar if it's going to draw a crowd though! :-)

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Cool. Maybe fixtures could be given into all student accommodation.

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That's a good idea in principal (like postering, flyers etc.) but the resources and manpower don't really exist to carry this out. The club has only one full time staff member employed in a commercial capacity and he has his hands full generating revenue by means which don't bring in much fans but a lot of money. The impact of such advertising hits as low as 1 in 500. That's not to say it shouldn't be tried but there's the feasability issues.

[QUOTE]Get the goals shown on UCDTV (or whatever it is you call the college station!).[/QUOTE

I honestly have no idea how UCDTV works, do you know?

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Make attending games an Arts module.

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That's a surefire way to make sure we don't get any extra crowd. Have you seen UCD student attendance rate?;)

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Get fixtures printed on coasters for the bar and place mats for the canteens.

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See the reply to the first quote. It's a new idea I haven't heard though and I'll take it on board.

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Get the club involved with the SU

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It's being worked on, that's where the merchandise on sale in the SU shop came from. They're not willing to do much more than that but I think the merchandise thing is a postive move.

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The Bowl needs a bar if it's going to draw a crowd though!

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That'll never happen. The Sports Bar nearby disappeared to accomodate the SU's Forum Bar. They're both about 100 yards from the Bowl.

Not a hope in hell the FAI can relegate UCD after finishing 6th in the league and maintain any creditability for this new SuperLeague. I know fans of Galway and all need a little helping hand getting promoted since they couldn't get the job done on the pitch, but any attempt to demote a 6th place Premier league team in place of a team that didn't finish in the top two in the 1st Division will make this new league a laughing stock to all the new fans the FAI are trying to entice.

I don't care about whether or not UCD are less marketable than Galway or not, you can't demote them after the season they have just had, end of story

100 yards too far! Ha.

The coasters can be printed at under €60 per 1000 through printing firms on the net. You can submit a design and they'll print it on coasters for you. It might catch peoples attention. And no bar turns down free coasters!

Maybe you could organise "cheerleaders" like the "Bohs Babes"?! They had the KCFC crowd laughing all the way to a win when we played them and I've a funny feeling students would be fond of the idea!

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Originally Posted by jebus

Not a hope in hell the FAI can relegate UCD after finishing 6th in the league and maintain any creditability for this new SuperLeague. I know fans of Galway and all need a little helping hand getting promoted since they couldn't get the job done on the pitch, but any attempt to demote a 6th place Premier league team in place of a team that didn't finish in the top two in the 1st Division will make this new league a laughing stock to all the new fans the FAI are trying to entice.

I don't care about whether or not UCD are less marketable than Galway or not, you can't demote them after the season they have just had, end of story

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If soccer in this country made sense and teams earned their place in the league by playing football I would totally agree. I do think UCD has potential its just that the student body is a particularly tough crowd to appease and to change the habits of. The fact that they all graduate after 3 or four years, or drop out, doesn't help matters. It means that the club will have to invest lots of time and money into promoting the club every year in order to entice new fans to replace those no longer in the college.

However if the club could develop a sizeable fanbase then the possibilities in terms of advertising revenue for them would be insane. Everybody wants to win over students custom - from bands to condom manufacturers to cults.

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Originally Posted by Philly

The coasters can be printed at under €60 per 1000 through printing firms on the net. You can submit a design and they'll print it on coasters for you. It might catch peoples attention. And no bar turns down free coasters!

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Philly, I'll look into it. At the end of the day I'm only a volunteer but I'll pass it onto someone.

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Originally Posted by Philly

Get fixtures printed on coasters for the bar and place mats for the canteens.

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That's actually a very good idea. Will look into it. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Philly

I believe clubs are being judges on marketability. Am I right?

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My point is that "marketability" is different to "marketing". Marketability talks about potential and what you could do - we potentiall have the whole of south Dublin and could get huge crowds out of it - while marketing talks about what you have done - we haven't gotten great crowds.

You're talking about our marketing - our low crowds - what what we're being judged on is marketability - what we "plan" to do, which, as we've seen from Dublin City's UEFA Licence, doesn't actually have to be ultimately carried out.

Personally I feel that free pints would be better than putting fixtures on coasters.;)

Haha reading through my posts I look like a sales rep for an online printing firm!

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Originally Posted by Philly

Maybe you could organise "cheerleaders" like the "Bohs Babes"?! They had the KCFC crowd laughing all the way to a win when we played them and I've a funny feeling students would be fond of the idea!

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I'd forgotten about them, they were a good laugh. :D Ours could have the advantage of being older than 13 too.

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Originally Posted by oriel

Thanks for kind words, you are close, we finished 10th out of 12 that season, (top 9 stayed up + winner of first div + no play off) think we finished a point or was it goal difference behind you in 9th but a massive points gap clear of of the team who came 11th, im sure it was Galway.

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cant remember meself if it was one point or goal dif, alls i remember is ye had a terrible first half of the season and a fantastic second half - ye came from nowhere to almost pip us at the post, if memory serves me ye came to the flansiro, with only a couple of games left and thumped us 3-1(??) if the season were one week longer...

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Originally Posted by oriel

Anyway no point crying over split milk, our real damage was done seasons 2002/03 and 2003, what a time to have your worst ever seasons in history, think we came 2nd last and 3rd last. A disgrace to all involved.

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all the same, the significance of that result, and our subsequent play-off panalty win over harps is not lost on me, for all clubs involved..

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Originally Posted by teckno

Waterford United will be a Premier Division side next year FACT!!.

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i could go on quoting for hours but there'd be no point :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SeanDrog

Back to the main point about Dundalk - a little fact they seem to ignore - their club agreed to the new structureand selection porcess - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you cannot now cry foul just cause you won a worthless playoff.<<<<<<<<<<<

Now some might argue that they beat Waterford - but so what, they signed up to the new format and they knew at the start of the season that it was a worthless format.

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Originally Posted by green-blood

its about applying to a new league, a completely new entity

Well done Dundalk... 2nd is the first loser

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Originally Posted by bluemovie

- We were going to be in the new 'Premiership' even if we lost EVERY game this season (I think Mike Kerley set out spoecifically to prove this theory:o )

- There is a NEW league next year. Entry to this league is determined by a number of criteria which were set out (vaguely) at the start of the season and which Waterford have attempted to satisfy.

- The play-off was worth something in the region of 10 to 20 of the 1000 entry points.

- This may p*ss people off, but the truth is the play-off was of less consequence than things like the parking and disabled facilities at the RSC.

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So could I..

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Originally Posted by d f x-

So could I..

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So this means that Shamrock were NEVER PROMOTED right:confused: Not as good as NEVER RELEGATED I suppose but it has a nice ring to it.

I'm sure it was a proud moment to be the final winners of the old First Division 'championship' even if it was

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of less consequence than things like the parking and disabled facilities at <insert name of rented ground here>

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:p

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Originally Posted by bluemovie

- We were going to be in the new 'Premiership' even if we lost EVERY game this season (I think Mike Kerley set out spoecifically to prove this theory:o ).

- I repeat: we were godawful this year.....but there was a reason for it - we were remaining within budget and putting a huge effort into preparing the club for next season's Premiership.

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As Homer would say..."D'oh!!!"

As santa would say "ho ho ho"