And it'll end up with the Waterford rep showing a picture he drew of of himselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr_T
in the nude with a dog, claimed to have misunderstood what was going on :p
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And it'll end up with the Waterford rep showing a picture he drew of of himselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr_T
in the nude with a dog, claimed to have misunderstood what was going on :p
There was a spelling purge back towards the start of the 20th century, I think, which tidied up a lot of Irish spellings. Other examples include Caoimhghín, which is now Caoimhín, and Lúghbhadh, which is now Lú. So Laoighis is probably the older spelling. Though that doesn't explain why they still use it. Maybe it's the official spelling, but just never used.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Would like to see a Tipp or Kerry team join the league myself, purely for selfish travel reasons, I suppose!
Why are Cliftonville being mentioned?! Am I misisng something here?
Kildare, incidentally, aren't the failure they're being made out to be here. They're just a victim of the current league environment. They started out strongly and just missed out on the play-offs for the first three years. In doing so, they ran up big debts of close to E200,000. Last year, they made the biggest trading profit in the league - E60k - but paid the price with a reduced budget and a similar drop in team form. I assume their plan is to clear the debts, get back to solvency as quick as possible and then increase their playing budget so they're on a break-even level. Unfortunately, in this league, with the FAI's ineptitiude with regards UEFA Licencing, it can be very hard to succeed without trading recklessly, as many clubs have found out in the recent past.
Do you or anyone else have the details of this so? I've never heard of anything beyond the sketchiest outline of where the marks were going when related to these criteria. Why do the clubs need to present their case anyway, should the FAI not be aware of the situation in each club without allowing them to stand up and exaggerate their plans or their ability to execute those plans? Will there be any check on what the clubs present or will another club like Dublin City be allowed to get away with claiming that they'll average crowds of 1500 at their home matches?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_T
For clubs towards the bottom of the Premier or the top of the First, it is by no means
to say otherwise is akin to saying that a student sitting their leaving cert knows what they'll be doing next year. Yes there's a bunch that is fairly sure they're going to get the points they want, and there's a bunch that realise they haven't a hope in hell of getting into medicine, but there are a lot out there who will be on the verge of getting the points they need, but could equally end up repeating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_T
At the moment there are quite a few clubs in this position, and the lack of any crystal clear guidelines does not inspire confidence in the process. It is non-transparent and the (justifiable) worry is that the FAI will tailor the marking scheme to cherry-pick their preferred clubs. The point that the WUFC rep was making is that at the moment, the club has no idea what division they are going to be in next year. IMO that is a completely valid statement to make and it makes it very difficult to attempt to plan for next season (players, contracts etc) when nobody knows whether we'll be travelling to Derry or Ballybofey, (or both).
I think they should add no members and retain the 11 team Premier Division. They'll be reducing it to a 10 team league the following season with three straight relegation places. The death of Dublin City could allow a less radical more incremental change.
You can't have an 11-team Premier next season. Ollie would kick up a stink about whichever club is given the last day of the season off. Plus, you can't possibly have a club idle on the last day.
going by the cso figures there mayo is by far and away the largest population center in the state without a loi presence.. having said that a kerry or tipp team would also be welcome.. mullingar is just stupid.. not only do you have athlone town already there from the same county but longford is as close or even closer to mullingar... and with the population of our two counties being what it is, sure ya might as well let in another dublin team as do that
According to today's papers it looks like the 11 in the premier and the winners of the first (Rovers or Galway) will make up the new premier. Which is the way it should be.
Magicme you know I speak the truth!
KOH
So all the fuss about next years changes are for what?That can't be wright.I can't see the premier not having both Rovers and Galway next year.
No ****ing way should it be. Waterford and Bray have been down right awful this year and now they now they don’t have to improve we’re going to see disgraceful mismatches. At least one club must be relegatedQuote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
I'd be surpsied if Waterford and Bray we're in it next year.Rovers,Galway and Dundalk all offer more.
One of them will be subjected to participating in possibly the most useless tie in the history of football, the playoff to decide who is ranked 12th or 14th in this season's league rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I assume Waterford/Bray would still play-off with Rovers/Galway/Dundalk?Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
I'd be sceptical about that being the case, mainly for Conor H's reasons. Though meedless to say, it makes sense. It's unfortunate that Bray and Waterford were so poor in the year Dublin City went broke and took the automatic relegation spot, but you can't relegate teams because they're rubbish if they did finish above teh required number of teams in the league.
Dont think there's any playoffs this year. I know its not right that WUFC and Bray stay up if they are that awful but its not based on on pitch performances unfortunately.
No chance of more than one First Division club going up IMO.
KOH
if people don't want to watch Cliftonville in the IL, why would they want to watch them in the EL ? I suspect the small unsavoury element within the Cliftonville support doesn't help them attract crowds (and would be a big part in my view on whether or not I personally wanted them in the EL).Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
Also - Donegal Celtic and Cliftonville cater to different parts of the City, abnd Cliftonville have been established for much much longer. I can't see many 'ville fans past, present, or future deciding to suppoort Donegal Celtic instead now. So there shouldn't really be any lap-over.
What principle ?? Derry City were a defunct Irish club located on the border who's own association consistently refused to let them back in. Hence - the only option they had was to look to south of the border for a return to senior football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
Cliftonville, meanwhile, are an existing club located deep inside Northern Ireland and who not only have no real problems with their association, but even have high level representatiion within that organisation (Jim Boyce, IFA President). Where is the similarity, let alone the principle, in all of that ?!? :confused:
I don't understand why people still beive that the winner of the first division will automatically get in the premier. It'll help a clubs cause to be sure, but remember that this year's ranking are based not just on the league but on the cup too, meaning that Rovers will be ranked miles ahead of Dundalk and especially Dundalk regardless of what they do for the rest of the season. In any case Rovers have a far better 4 year record than either. The only way Rovers won't go up is if they are heavily punished for/totally f-up off the filed matters.
Galway are the ones who most need to win the division, as Dundalk just haven't a hope of going up and Rovers are up anyway.
And according to the FAI document there will certainly be 12 in the premier next year.
And if no club joins the First does that mean a 9 team division, playing 32 games?
After all that is known about the difficulty, would strong junior clubs really want to risk it?
The clubs all have details.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmac
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmac
If thats all the Waterford rep said then of course its true, but if you accept the principle of clubs being selected on grounds other than on the field as the new proposals......propose then theres not much else can be done. The non football criteria are fairly specific from what I've heard, adn while some of the points are allocated for plans - strategic plans, business plans etc which clubs should have - they will have to be realistic, which is why clubs have to come down for 1 hour sessions and present and defend them.
Already done that gag in the original post Ash! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
Exactly right Galwayharps. Galway really do need to win the First Division to have a better chance of getting into the top 12. Galway fans are really fooling themselves if they think that themselves and Rovers will be in the Premier next season no matter what.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galway Harps
Anyway, based on the FAI's Criteria of scoring 500 points "on the pitch", this is how the 21 clubs would feature if the season was brought to a halt today. This is just a snapshot taken as of today. However, if Galway failed to win the First Division, they would actually fall to 14th position. There is still 500 points to play for "off the pitch" which is why the presentations that each club make to the IAG is still vitally important.
Finally, I think it is fair to say that the top 8 clubs on the table below are "almost certain" to form part of the new Premier Division next season, with UCD, Waterford and Sligo all looking "fairly certain" at the moment. I think it is also fair to say that the clubs in positions 16-21 are "almost certain" to be part of the First Division next season. That means, that one of the clubs in positions 12-15 at present will get the last place on offer. That means if Bray finish last in the Premier and Galway won the first this season, Galway will have to score 24 points (out of 500) more than Bray in the "off the field" criteria to make the last place. I'm not so sure they will. Bray's infastructure is pretty good (as is Galways), their licensing record is good (as is Galways), they never seem to have any financial problems (nor do Galway), so it is difficult to see where Galway will make up the points. One thing is for sure, if Galway don't win the First Division, I think the 12 teams in the new Premier next season will as they are listed below. By the way, the figures in brackets are each teams scores if the season were to end today. Galway's early exits in each Cup compeition could come back to haunt them while I don't think Dundalk have any chance of being in the Premier next year - even if they won the First Division.
1 Shelbourne (493)
2 Cork City (467)
3 Derry City (460)
4 Bohmians (443)
5 Longford Town (437)
6 Drogheda United (430)
7 St. Patrick's Athletic (407)
8 Shamrock Rovers (370)
9 UCD (363)
10 Waterford United (353)
11 Sligo Rovers (340)
12 Bray Wanderers (313)
13 Galway United (290)
14 Finn Harps (283)
15 Dundalk (257)
16 Cobh Ramblers (250)
17 Limerick (247)
18 Kildare County (240)
19 Kilkenny City (187)
20 Athlone Town (187)
21 Monaghan United (183)
How many points for a win and how many for a draw in that system - is it the same as normal competiiton (i.e. 3 and 1) ?
Do Cup replays count the drawn leg previously ?
I think this is based on the FAI scoring system as outlined in their documentation on the merger. There's 200 points for this season and 300 for the previous 4 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
So how are the 200 points for this season comprised ? I'm trying to see how far we could/might get in that table with the remaining league and Cup games. Obviously not a life or death issue for City, but I'm interested in knowing none-the-less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galway Harps
It's so many points for each league position and so many for each round of the cup, league cup and european cups. The full document is on the FAI website.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Quote:
Originally Posted by harps1954
Ya but your whole argument is still only 50% of the criteria for next year's elite.If we come in the top 2 it should hopefully be good enough because our off the field structure etc is 2nd to none.So if we win the league we will definitely be in the premier next year.
So what happens when you come 2nd?! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Conor H
Didn't i say if we come in the top 2?;)
Irrelevant anyway beacuse we are the best and will win the league.:)
This is what makes me nervous. There's only 100 points seperating UCD in 9th and Dundalk in 15th. I don't have very much faith in the off field criteria. There's a potential 500 points to win and claw back that 100 point deficit.
Honest question, how is better than Bray's, UCD's or Waterford's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor H
http://www.fai.ie/merger/pdf/eircomLeague-proposals.pdf
Just been reading over the off field stuff again. Under infrastructure it mentions stadium stuff and then just "plans re infrastructure development etc" with that exact punctuation. What the heck does that mean?
As I say, the stuff is very ambiguous. Will UCD be awarded points for the soon to be demolished Belfield Park or the undeveloped Belfield Bowl or the new Bowl plans? Does being the only club in Dun Laoighre/Rathdown area give us one of the most favourable demographic situations in the country or are we considered bad for sharing the city with 4/5 clubs?
I think the date is 12th dec for clubs to be notified , I still believe that the problem is not this year but when the league has to drop to 10 teams will it be the bottem team our the team with the lowest points
Well as it stands Terryland is a apt compact ground.However work is soon to begin on a new all seater stand across from the current one.That would quite easily make it better than the RSC and the Carlisle Grounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Our Marketing team are constantly coming up with new innovative ideas to publicise UTD and our website has just been revamped.
The board is also attracting some of the wealthiest Business men in Galway to invest in UTD reducing our debt to a significant low.
We weren't highlighted by Genesis for no reason.FAO-UCD fans please please don't turn this into another debate!Im aware we invited genesis down.
As it stands the Carlisle grounds is better than Terryland and if you're going to get promoted on a website...Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor H
... or for your debt being lower than it used to be...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Mayo or Kerry get my vote.
Would be interesting to see would they be able to gather enough support
I just love this quote! It's SO wrong yet,... so write! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor H
Quote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
Think you have a valid point there. I think it will be the lowest points ranked teams. Have also heard a bit of a story saying that Rovers probably have to win the 1st to get into the new top division.
So for this season I think what is in the premier this year will stay and the winner of the 1st will make up the 12. Just based this on what I have heard.
When was the last time in Terryland.Stupid comment about the website.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
That's what makes me optimistic. If we don't come top then fair enough but if we win the division and don't get invited to the big party then I'll be gutted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Dundalk, Galway and Rovers to go up. Waterford and Bray to go down. I don't think many could complain about that.
You brought the website up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor H
Last year, and you brought it up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor H
Given the financial plight of some of the so-called bigger clubs , who have struggled to pay player's wages this season, it's more likely there may only 20 clubs in the League next season, or maybe even fewer still........