so he'll be helping us to draw more games then?
slovaks beating cyprans 6-1 is ominous, as i say.
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so he'll be helping us to draw more games then?
slovaks beating cyprans 6-1 is ominous, as i say.
Thought steven reid played well when he moved into the middle.
he is the only midfield player we have that is not afraid to put himself about.
also he went looking for the ball when he moved into midfield.
i think we played better when the germans scored not cause they sat back but because reid moved into the middle
the o brien lad from newcastle has great pace.
disappointed but not down hearted.
ps stans left foot looks like its still in good working order:D
Anyone else notice how Ray Houghton biased against him & seemed to be nit picking in direct contrast to Liam Brady?Quote:
Originally Posted by joema
Ireland lucky not to lose 3-0.
No shot on target in 90 minutes.
Lot of huff and puff, long balls, no real obvious plan.
Bizarre is the only way to describe.
Duff - McGeady
Kilbane - O'Brien
Doyle - Elliot.
I know Duff wasn't have a great game but he did have 3 germans on him each time (every manager now knows how to kill irish attacks) & if changed tactics could have made space for him.
Doyle was one of the better players & O'Brien was clueless when he came on.
:rolleyes:
Only reason I can thnk of for taking off Doyle was he was tred after working his nuts off the entire game. i doubt it but its the only possible thing I can think off.
We may not have had a shot on target but Keane and Dunne should easily have scored from 2 free headers.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Agreed. Bringing McGeady and Elliot on were the right moves but Reid and Keane should have come off. Neither were doing anything and Doyle and Duff looked like they had the potential to make something happen. O'Brien coming on was last throw of the dice type move so I don't have any real quibble with that and Kilbane was useless anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
I'm a little more optimistic than most here (probably the atmosphere at the match made it seem better). The defence was quite solid with Dunne and Given superb. The midfield was awful and that stopped us from being able to do anything going forward as there was no supply. A midfield of Reid and maybe Kavanagh if he improves on the Dutch performance might do better against the weaker teams in the group; enough to give Doyle and Keane some chance of scoring anyway.
Given 9
Carr 7
O'Brien 7
Dunne 8
Finnan 7
Reid 4
O'Shea 4
Kilbane 4
Duff 6
Doyle 8
Keane 6
Subs barely touched the ball.
Yes only losing 1 nil in Germany looks good but only looking at the scoreline will delude you. Getting sent off in an international match is idiotic - who will sit on the bench for the next games?
Why no friendly on wednesday? We have yet to play an away friendly with Staunton.
Good game and great atmosphere from both sides. Ireland started well and had a good scoring opportunity by Robbie Keane...but couldn't continue to play on this high level, as Germany found its rhythm and stepped up the pace.
I think it was a big mistake from Steve Staunton to start with O'Shea & Reid in the central midfield, as they never could create real pressure on this new German defence! IMO the better choice for this position would have been Robbie Keane & Reid or McGeady & Reid. You have to improve your attacking performance for the next quali games, then you surely have got a good chance to defeat the Czechs and Slovakians! It seems to me that you need some kind of a playmaker and I think that Robbie Keane or Aiden McGeady would be the right choice.
Unfortunately the Czechs reached a lucky, late win against Wales...but nothing is lost for you yet! Good luck for the next matches!
Why no friendly on wednesday? We have yet to play an away friendly with Staunton.[/QUOTE]
Good point. I see Wales are playing Brazil on Tuesday. Surely we could have got Argentina seeing as they are in London at present. I think issues like this only highlight how wrong Staunton is for the job. It's a full time job so he's getting paid to look after the team, I suspect this would include mentioning possible friendly games. I remember in 2003 we organised a game v Turkey at relatively short notice (maybe a month or so before)!
post match interview seemed totally removed from the reality of the actual game. very worrying.
dont think the reff was against us either, if anything he should have given them a peno.
he possibly could have given a couple of yeallow for german tackles but thats it. we certainly didnt deserve a peno.
No midfield whatsover. and inability to hold onto the ball means we were inviting the germans on to us to attack.
we could have got a result here if we didnt give the ball away so much and if we could do anything creative at all. two big ifs! very poor and for staunton to come on after and say we were brilliant and the reff was against us is shocking. needs to look at alternatives in midfield or we will have big problems come the next qualifying for world cup. cant understand how keane stayed on and doyle was taken off. keane shouldnt be captain and shouldnt be undroppable. very disapointing performance as in we didnt seem to create anything and we coulcnt hold on to the ball. no change from dutch game there. Kilbane not good enough at this level. nobody can question his workrate and commitment but he simply cant hold on to the ball. o shea is the same. stephen reid has been a big disapointment also. fair play to o brien who isnt playing at his club and put in a good performance. how lucky are we to have given? all in all a lot of huff and puff with no end product whatsoever. manager seems to be deluded as well.
Maybe I'm deluded too so. We did a lot better than I expected us to do.
During the build up I thought we were lambs to the slaughter. The noise and the sheer wave of nationalism on display was amazing. With those big 20 foot flags being held on the pitch and all the Germans in their colours and singing their songs I wouldn't have been surprised if the Fuhrer himself took to the pitch to address the crowd.
This was a better team than the French 2 years ago & the home crowd effect came into play this time. The pocket of Irish at the diagonally opposite end of the ground to me were drowned out at will.
The game started and we showed intent from the off. Robbie should probably have scored. Of course they had chances, a home team always will. Yes, we rode our luck and I wouldn't have any other keeper in world football than Given. Richard Dunne was sensational and yet again O'Brien defied his club form to look every inch an international defender for Ireland. Kevin Doyle was superb, covering every blade of grass and getting his head to every restart. Carr played one of his better games and Finnan's presence on the left meant that side was simply not the weakness it has been so many times. It's not the long term solution but it was OK on the night.
Yet of course that's not enough. Our central midfield was poor and I can't for the life of me understand why Reid is persistently picked RHM when he's our best central midfieler. I've said dozens of times that the biggest tactical failing of the last campaign was Kilbane in CM. Yes, he's got the physique & running power to upset & get stuck in but has absolutely none of the finesse, vision or passing required for CM. But, Kav would have been eaten alive out there. So too Miller and others. The Germans were huge, every one of them. I agree we created nothing from this part of the pitch but I also think in KK's absence the Germans would have been more dangerous.
The solution is obvious: Steven Reid has all of Kilbane's physical attributes plus a ball player's instincts. I can't believe O'Shea is being slated again. His first 60 mins last night was good. He did everything he should have done. He made errors late on but some of the passes he received were shocking. Alongside a natural central midfielder his contribution would be more appreciated.
A note on Alan O'Brien. Someone said his pace showed how much of a threat he can be. Yes, but he got given the ball 3 times and 3 times he controlled it worse than I would have. Nerves maybe, but suggesting he's ahead of Duff is daft. Duff was fine last night, it's just that we expect so much of him.
Tactically I think we could have been better, but I've no complaints about the attitude out there. Several times during the game we responded to strong periods of theirs with strong retorts of our own. Their crowd was silenced several times. We should have scored twice - Robbie & Dunneand from a Reid free O'Shea hheaded the ball into a German's head. I saw O'Shea's reaction. Lehman's parry could easily have gone to Doyle. If we keep that attitude throughout we'll have a chance.
We lost to a good team away. 1-0. Not a cause to celebrate but hardly a disaster. We'll always need Dunne & Given to play well away from home. That's why they're there.
The Germans will beat everyone at home. I'm sure of it. The Czechs looked vulnerable. Solvakia win easily against Cyprus. Commendable yes, but ultimately it's expected. Staunton picked a team for the night. I hope a lesson is learnt about central mid and Kilbane.
And to the **** who said he's glad we lost because Staunton is a coward - go **** off and follow another country then. We don't need your types.
Why no friendly on wednesday? We have yet to play an away friendly with Staunton.[/QUOTE]
Next year we cannot play any home friendlies as Croke Park is only available for competative matches. As such, we should see away friendlies make a welcome return (last one was in Poland April 2004)
just back from the game and have been trying to read up on how the fans and press thought we played. I thought we did ok - first half we came flying out of the traps and made it uncomfortable for the Germans. I've not seen any replays of how the free kick came about. I've seen the deflection off Robbie when I got back to the hotel on german tv and it looked jammy to say the least. Shay Given was fantastic, his save in the first half looked world class from where I was sitting. Brilliant keeper and he kept the score down for us. Dunne played a blinder as well.
On the negatives:
Kilbane and O'Shea were invisible once again, I only noticed them playing when they gave the ball away. We need to give some of the other young lads a chance, both of these guys have had plenty of opportunities now and don't grasp em. S Reid on the right of midfield? MacGeady should have been starting from the off. I know we are never gonna replace Keano - he was a one in a million but we can surely find someone who can run, tackle and pass a little with a bit more authority??!!
Doyle won a lot of headers and should have stayed on. He was way more effective than Elliott from my position behind the goal. Duff took a lot of crunching tackles and was limping for a while before getting subbed. The atmosphere since Friday was fantastic in Stuttgart - I thought we'd have had half of the tickets by the sheer number of people in the main square.......not to be unfortunately!!!
Stan was on his feet for most of the game shouting instructions, cajoling and encouraging the players. He reminded me of Chilavert at wc 98. I don't think it has quite sunk in how low in self belief /confidence this team has fallen to or the dearth of talent in the squad for a game at this standard. Is kicking a ball away the best that that fxckwit dunphy can come up with. I was sitting directly behind Stan, I had no problem with him kicking the ball and blowing his top.
I could't give a ****e if Stan talks like he has a poker up his ass in front of the camera, I could see that he can communicate quite fine to the team. I can understand why he would express magnanimous praise for the players. I'd agree with the comment that the game was dissapointing but not downheartening. Some things didn't work some things did. At least Carr was stalwart last night.
Just give me one consistantly good solid midfield player, a leader. Unfortunatly we don't have any, Miller and mc Phail are lightweights, Steven Reid looks quite ordinary in this company. In theory, Carsley could be a stopgap solution. Then I think a lot of the other pieces would fall into place.
As for the rest, the team showed they have the desire and commitment to go forward.
The Germans will beat everyone at home. I'm sure of it. The Czechs looked vulnerable. Solvakia win easily against Cyprus. Commendable yes, but ultimately it's expected. Staunton picked a team for the night. I hope a lesson is learnt about central mid and Kilbane.
That's a fair statement. I think it will come down to who picks up points away between us, Czechs and Slovakia. I don't think Wales will be a problem but could do us favours, like they nearly did last night. We've got to remember we are 4th seeds. We played 1st seeds last night. Maybe it's over optimistic but we've got a chance in this group. We do need the odd friendly though!
I think we have a chance to go through.
Although we did not create much in the game,apart from two great chances neither did the German team.
Just got back, thought we played fairly well, not outstanding but not poorly.
Given was world class, best keeper in the world.
Carr had a great game and really gave it his all.
Dunne did well, had a couple of headers he might have dispatched on another night (he seemed to be our only player who could win a header in their box, but he could win the headers easily - just couldnt find the target)
An. O'Brien thought he had a great game
Finnan solid game, not spectacular but did the job
Kilbane not great, only really played in fits and starts
Reid, did ok but his lack of experience meant he was caught out of position a few times - free kicks were not too good. Think if he had a more experienced midfielder next to him he would be better
O'Shea - probably his best game for Ireland, but was still fairly average and towards the end gave away possesion a bit too much.
Duff - not at his best, had glimpses of magic but seemed to take a knock in the second half and didnt really get back into the swing of things.
Doyler - good lad, tried hard and had a really good run in the second half where he beat what seemed like the whole German left side.
Keane - tried hard but lacked the support and frequently had to come far back to get the ball, and was also defending a lot more than I would expect.
The subs didnt really have much time to make an impact, but Alan O'Brien's pace nearly got him in behind the Germans. One for the future perhaps.
All of this was seen after a few beers, so I might have missed one or two things but my thoughts are as follows.
We started really well and put them under a lot of pressure. Defence was fairly solid, Shay was immense. Duff, even playing below his optimal standard, caused them a lot of problems and we won a few free kicks in decent positions. Carr was world class, best I've seen him for years.
And the bad stuff... at times it felt like we didnt have a striker, Doyle and Keane were dropping back so much to try and get posession, and by the end it was like Doyle was playing left winger. Center midfield was about two kicks behind the game, there wasnt too much coordination between O'Shea and Reid at times they both chased the ball and at other times they both sat back. They lack the mutual understanding at this stage and maybe a calmer, older head should be thrown into the fray (Carsley or Kav - if he gets going this season). Yellow cards, Given, Reid and Dunne (I think didn't see it clearly) picked up yellows if they get a few more we could be in trouble in terms of suspensions.
Set plays were poor, if Ian Harte had been on the pitch I think we would have scored from one of the free kicks. Certainly if he was to play I think he would be our most likely goal scorer. If its 50-50 between to players to start I would consider picking a set piece specialist (eg say Kav over O'Shea).
I do worry about us getting goals, we've lots of creative players but we really need a good old fashioned selfish striker, ideally a target man too. I wish we had a young Aldo or Quinney back. A striker who could really get up there and head the ball would be great, all I can think of is Alan Lee but I have doubts as to if he is really good enough at the very highest level... Maybe Clinton's sheer physical presence means he should get a shout (but then it's hard to drop Doyle or Robbie Keane). I think Clinton gives us more options, at this stage, than Elliott.
We are in a tricky spot now, but that was always going to be our hardest game, I still think we have a good chance but we will need to beat the Czechs without question.
Last v Holland (a) June 2004Quote:
Originally Posted by soylent green
Is there a divergence of opinion between those who were there and those who watched RTE?
I'm much more in accordance with Geysir, Edmundo & Shakermaker than the others.
There's a post in another thread from a newbie in Tampa questioning the commitment of our "prima donnas". I saw no evidence of that on the night.
Like Geysir, I couldn't care less how Staunton comes across on TV. The players played like they were up for it on Saturday. Any fault in this team's performance is down to lack of quality central midfield - again. Staunton's tactics and selection were his way of trying to get around this. I'd have done it another way, but any selection I'd prefer would also be speculative.
Late on I'd like to have seen a defender sacrificed for another attacking player too.
Staunton did a Sven on Saturday, picked as many big names as he could regardless of where they actually would fit in to the team.
His subs were a joke, leaving Pat Devlin in charge !? That **** couldn't run a bath !
John O'Shea was a disgrace to the Green jersey.
Don't know what you guys have expected. Germany have finished third in the world cup. Sweden who do have a strong team too went home with a 3-0 defeat just a few weeks ago.
Think the Irish did very well and i must admit that I was releaved when the final whistle was blown as I thought you might pull a 92. goal again like you did in 2002.
I hope you have more luck for the upcoming matches - this one was rather unlucky than undeserved!
Only back late last night and I'm fcuking fuming. I wasn;t too optimistic before I travelled over but then with all the German withdrawls and post WC hangover I started getting optimistic. This was enhanced on the Fri and Sat seeing all the Irish fans and flags and colour etc. How wrong could I be? Very.
Our performances are just getting worse. And I'm only taking competitive matches into account. Sat night was about as horrible as it gets. That was a German team there for the taking, I don't give a damn what anyone says. Any German I spoke to before the game was really worried about their back 4. And it says it all that we didn't expose them once.
I don't know where to start with our team. Fcuk opinions at this stage. Shay Given deserves to lead this team out. Is there a keeper out there who is consistently as good. I don't think so. We were discussing the squad on the way to Stuttgart and we came to the conclusion that Carr has been guarenteed a place in the side,otherwise there is no reason he has come back from retirement. I can't see why Finnan should be moved around just to accomodate that fat little cnut.
The two centre halves did fine but were exposed quite a few times which you'd expect with the midfield that was in front of them. Andy O'Brien did fine but he does need to start getting first team football. The Finnan experiment didn't work as he didn't seem to link up well with whoever was in front of him, but thats irrelevant now, he's the best right back in the Premiership and thats where he should play for us.
Why Steven Reid was right mid I'll never know. Everyone to a man on this forum thought he was #1 for centre mid.
As for the substitutions I was pulling my hair out! Doyle being taken off was ridiculous unless he was injured. It was the muppet beside him (who looked back to his best as far as the arm-waving and sulking goes) who should have been subbed.
Anyway there is no point in dissecting the team player by player. Lehmann didn't have to make any decent save, Given was man-of-the-match and they hit the bar twice. Nuff said we were sh!te. The ominous result is the Slovak 6 Cyprus 1 scoreline!
Final thing and the Irish fans could take note. The German fans were brilliant. It was cool to go to a stadium that is supporter friendly. The colour and the pride they displayed was top notch. I especially liked the drummers and the flag-wavers right behinfd the goal. With the dimensions of Croker we will have plenty of space behind either goal so maybe we should look at doing something similar.
Can I ask what Given had to do other than the excellent save from Klose (i think it was)? I think people are going a bit ott by saying Germany should have won by more. Every match is going have a few chances otherwise football would be a pretty boring game. We should have scored 2 with headers from Dunne and Keane. Dunne said after the game: “I know I should have scored really".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Also, Keane reckons he wasn't offside for the goal he scored. He was slightly offside as seen on the replay but it was another chance for us.
Stan must go?
Kilbane must go?
O'Shea must go?
Keane to be stripped of captaincy?
My god, what next???????????????????????????????
I cannot fault our lads committment. I'm gonna have to get a dvd of the game to get a better feel of the game but for me a few points stand out.
1: Steve Finnan is a RB, a very good one and should play there. End of, why should he accomodate Carr?
2: Kilbane and O'Shea are just not good enough. They mean well and try but they haven't got the class to stamp their authority on a game. Keep them out of the centre of MF if you have to play them Stan.......it cost us the game. They didn't provide cover nor any attacking threat.
3: MacGeady needs to start on the right and move S Reid inside.
4: Keep Doyle on!!! When 1 nil down with the fans behind the team we needed a 3 man attack. Clinton's pace and workrate would be my choice over Stephen.
staunton should never have been given job in first place. no overreaction there.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedder
Kilbane not good enough at this level and his wastefullness with the ball is going to cost us games. he does work hard and that is admirable but it is not enough therefore he shouldnt be in team.
O shea is just a waste of space. very talented footballer who is suffering from bein a utility player at utd. not good enough to play in midfield and doesnt even have kilbanes workrate as a saving grace.if he is going to find a german with every ball he should go declare for them.
keane shouldnt have been made captain in the first place. he didnt play well on sat and wasnt subbed possibly cause he is captain.in fact when was the last time he had a good game for ireland? doyle was no pele on sat but he did seem to play with a sense of purpose lacking in keane. people arent going mad cause we lost one nil. it was the manner in which we lost. we never ever at any stage in the game looked capable of creating a goal scoring chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Bray-
Simple and straight!!! Staunton has'nt a flucking clue what he's at!!! How about trying to play players in their right positions ffs!!!
You can't expect to win a football match when the manager has'nt a flucking notion how to setup his team. You only had to look at the bench saturday night, losing 1 - 0 not a budge from the bench nobody warming up, nothing ffs!!!.
Can sombody please ask him to play the players he has in their right positions and see how they get on, all this flucking about with players can't give them confidence only uncertainty!!! FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now i would call the management team shambollic!!!! not the players.
Altough only for Given (9), Dunne(8) O'brien (81/2) this would have been a rout!!! I was sitting in the stadium watching as the germans bombarded our gaol and only for above players we would have been a laughing stock!
Still not sure how I feel about this (and I think quite a few of us are the same). Odd to say that the result was better than the performance and we lost!
Biggest problem was we never looked like scoring. There are many reasons for this, poor midfield = limited chances. Duff had a(nother) off day. We have 2 forwards who are not really pure goalscorers.
Assuming none of this is going to change radically, we need to get back to winning by the odd goal and what is worrying for me is that we are scoring none from our old source, set pieces. Corners, free kicks etc produce nothing despite having big lads in O'Shea, Dunne, O'Brien, Kilbane. Isn’t this something they could work on.
I agree with the poster above who says Harte should be back when fit. That leads to one of a number of selection issues. Finnan is no LB but I thought Carr was good, reminded me of what a good player he used to be. Therefore either play him and Finnan on the Right side and then have no McGeady or drop one (possibly have Finnan for the tougher matches and Carr when we have to win).
If Carsley is coming back (and he's worth a chance) then it would seem obvious to drop O'Shea. I suspect Stan will drop Reid though!
Not downhearted yet though, 2nd place is between us Czechs, Wales and Slovaks. Need to win against Cyprus and San Marino this year and I think the key game for us is the one against Czechs in October. We have to win that, not just for the 3 points but for the momentum. The team seem to think they are weak now. Lose or even draw and we are going to need away wins against good teams (and we dont get a lot of those).
Anyone thought about playing Harte in center midfield?
I know he's never really played there before, but his range of passing is very good. My impression is he is good a breaking play up but as a full back is often beaten for pace when tracking back. Hopefully this would be less of an issue as a central midfielder as he in theory shouldnt be up against speedy wingers.
It's a weak position for us so part of me thinks we should play him there as we don't have any world class alternatives.
If we have him in our team, and with the likes of Duff, McGeady and Robbie Keane getting free kicks, we have a great chance of scoring.
I wish we had the chance to try out a combination of say Carsley and Harte in a friendly on Wednesday (I know Harte is currently injured).
I'd like to see Stan organise a full team v under 21s match or something like that on Wednesday.
Really? I thought the German fans were practically silent for 90% of the game. I couldn't hear a peep out of them when we weren't singing. All they seemed to do was start Mexican waves and boo us when they died at the start of the Irish area. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
From my end of the ground I could you when they were silent but once the Germans responded with songs of their own that was it. The Irish looked better than they sounded I thought. I was over 100m away though so any German singing near me would have drowned out the sound from that far away. There was a game group of about 25 Irish 15 rows behind me who gave it a good go throughout.
I actually thought at the time that it was the good Irish start to the game and the subsequent defiance of Given & Dunne that silenced the German crowd for long periods.
A friendly would definitely have been useful alright but not to look at Harte as a midfielder! We're weak in some positions and we've got to look at how to address the problems. I worry that Staunton may not realise what can be improved upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Staunton complained after the Dutch game (SKY TV interview) that he only had the players for a few days.
Have to admit I didn't hear a single German song the entire match. Every sound out of them was co-ordinated and pre-organised - they were told what to do and they did it. Even then, it only amounted to calling the players' names or answering the drums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Note elsewhere in this very forum that the Germans copied us!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Overall - better performance than I was expecting, although we still didn't really look like scoring. Tells us nothing about the Cyprus game though - no idea yet how we'll do when we're expected to chase a game. But Saturday was a game we could afford to lose - were expected to lose really - and the fact that we did a lot better than we could have is a positive in itself. The Czechs at home is a far more important match than Germany away.
I thought that as well Stu - the Germans around me needed a prompting to chant and fly the fags. "Deutschland, Deutschland etc etc" was ringing in my ears for an hour afterwards and I was desperate to sing "you've only got one song" if we scored !!! To be fair when they did jump up and start waving the flags it was brilliant but we made a good bit of noise as well.
Problem from where I was was that "Deutschland, Deutschland..." was enough to negate our singing. My mate said that on telly the Irish came across brilliantly so hats off, I think it's just that where I was our attempts to sing were futile.
Molly Malone had a few renditions down our end. Yours too? Is this making a return?
Didn't happen down our end unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The Irish were definitely the louder from the TV. If the ref blew the whistle you'd no which way the call was based on the crowds reaction. A big cheer and it was an Irish free. :) The Irish sounded like the home team tbh and it really seemed to pump up the players at the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Gerry McDermott on Keane from Today's Indo. Jesus Christ.
Staunton's decision to hand him the captain's armband last March was instantly rewarded with two goals against Sweden. However, against Chile, Holland and again on Saturday, the skipper was peripheral.
I'd say so. I couldn't hear the 12,000 fans singing "The referee's a w@nker" over my own singing of it. Doesn't mean I was louder than the 12,000 others!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88