I wouldn't count Paul Kimmage's bitter rantings as a source to confirm that "the majority of riders in the tour are up to their eyes in drugs."Quote:
Originally Posted by finlma
KOH
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I wouldn't count Paul Kimmage's bitter rantings as a source to confirm that "the majority of riders in the tour are up to their eyes in drugs."Quote:
Originally Posted by finlma
KOH
Kimmage is bitter alright but to say Le Tour is drug free is ridiculous.
I love the sport and hope Landis hasnt gone to the dark side but............
KOH
Who said that? I was just pointing out the equally ridiculous they're all on drugs statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
KOH
When they test for drugs they don't test for ther drug itself they test for trace elements.
The level required to make a positive test is far above what the body is capable of producing naturally (so theoretically if you cheat only a little you'll get away with it) this is in order to guarantee that there is no doubt it's artificial.
I seriously doubt Landis took much, if anything, on the day as he would have known he would have delivered a positive test were he to do so. Generally the regimen of someone on performance enhancing drugs ends a certain amount of time before competition so as to reduce the chance of recording a positive test.
The best example of why this is done is Ben Johnson who had completed his regimen but panicked after losing to Carl Lewis in the 1988 Zurich meet and took some more (though he maintained it wasn't stananazol). Had he not had the top up he would most likely have recorded a clean test in Seoul.
Aye it was hunger knock on stage 16, brought about by being isolated and not getting the necessary food and fluids. You've also got to take into account the strategy of Telecom and CSC on stage 17 - which many of those so quick to put the boot in haven't (after hearing Kimmage's bitter rants on any media outlet that would take the untc he couldn't have even watched the stage let alone "known" that he was doping)Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
On the test that Landis has failed, the new lower limits has caught a few out over the last few years, but there is a test that's fairly conclusive as to whether it's a naturally high ratio or a prescription one.
Kimmage went berserk last night saying "There's no miracles in sport":rolleyes:
It's a miracle he can stand up with the weight of the chips on his shoulders.
Landis' website down. Hope its just a natural high level of testosterne but.........
KOH
According to one of the US News reports last night, the acceptable ratio's for testosterone are 1:1,2:1 and a high of 3:1. They are claiming that his ratio was 11:1, based on the results of his test! Also, Landis did a phone interview from an undisclosed location in Europe and claimed that he is not guilty of cheating and asked that the public wait 'till all the facts are in.
Irrespective of Landis' guilt or not, wouldn't it make a nice change if drug cheats just admitted it straight away?
It seems every time someone gets caught taking performance enhancing drugs they always request the B sample be tested and maintain their innocence throughout no matter how bad the situation looks.
I hope Landis is exposed as the cheat he is and the Tour is given to the deserved winner Periero.
People can call Kimmage bitter but he's calling a spade a spade - simple as that. I'd take Kimmage's word above any of the sports intellectuals on here spouting their non-existant expertise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by finlma
Periero!?!
sure he's hepped up on Goof Balls!
Who's claiming to be an expert?Quote:
Originally Posted by finlma
I'd take Landis over ANY spanish cyclist as being honest. And I don't even care if he is.
BTW Kimmage's writings about cycling are more to do with his failure in the sport than any real credible evidence. The French paper L'Equipe used the same strategy when Armstong kept on destroying all their heroes. "The only reason he/they are beating us/me is they/he is using drugs" Bitter ****ing ****** (and **** journalist too)
ehm
didnt several teams face criminal proceedings in France/Italy
it was the civil authorities who busted a few dopers in the past
Oh and one more thing, the reason Landis could recover so well this year was the lack on control in the peleton. No team dominated like in previous years and he was allowed gain those 7 minutes. If CSC were any use, Pereiro would've won by 10-12 minutes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
thats BS dodge
kimmage doesnt even write about cycling - he doesnt even watch it anymore
radio shows and all ask him to talk about it now with the fresh controversy cos of his background
cyclists do take a cocktail of stuff to keep goin.....same as Italian footballers
I believe in the US performance enhancing drugs have been moved up a few categories of drugs & can face 2 year jail term for supplying just like other recreational drugs. I think this aimed at hormones for body building & the like.
CSC is Sastre's team, Pereiro rides for Caisse d'EpargneQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
How is it BS, He has written on cycling and it is IMO based largely on his failings.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Read what I said again. IMO Landis is MORE LIKELY to be clean than any of the top Spanish cyclists. Its not prejudiced, its based on the fact that (both in real and percentage terms) more Spanish cyclists have been found guilty than any other nation. I don't care if landis is clean and I don't care if Periero or Sastre are clean. Makes not one bit of difference to my opinion of any of them or cycling in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfootball
ps good spot monutd, but you know what I meant ;)
Nicely out pedanting me (and thats a compliment BTW) but I stand by what I said
But cycling isn't a US sport, all the cyclists spend at least half the year in Europe. Either way, doesnt matter
spot onQuote:
Originally Posted by totalfootball
dodge hasnt a clue when it comes to doping
head in the sand stuff
The only ways for cycling to ever have credibility are the following a) revert to amateur status for a decade to purge the sport of drugs or b) give them all the same drug in the same dose and then at least have a level playing field.
I know Mark Scanlon's ex, she says that his career is going down-hill. Although she may be slightly biased in her opinion of him now;) :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
he has got back to winning ways with a stage win in some road race recently in Mayo,hardly the Tour but at least its a step in teh right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
If he can get a few seasons injury free,things might start happening for him again.
LOL! How? Where have I said ANYWHERE that Landis wasn't on drugs? I've said he's less likely than the Spanish but nowhere did I say he was "clean"Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Explains why he thought Landis' ride was a "miracle" rather than shíte tactics from other teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Whoever said the solution was to make cycling amateur to clean it, well it hasn't worked keeping local examples of supposed national sports "clean".
Dunno about that. He's got more than a clue about acting a dope.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Dodge, do us a favour. If you don't want to appear as some small minded racist pr*ck, have a little decency and produce some evidence to back up your arguments.
First drug cheat 'caught' at the Tour? Tom Simpson (Britain) whose speed riddled body collapsed on the slopes of Mount Ventoux in 1967.Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfootball
Phonak have history though. The 1998 World Champion Oscar Camenzind retired after giving a positive dope test. They had a clear out of staff last year but doenst seem to have worked.
How credible are Landis' excuses now?:
Landis fires back at cycling hierachy
By Sal Ruibal, USA TODAY
Embattled Tour de France champion Floyd Landis says he's been treated unfairly by cycling's international governing body and can't properly defend himself against charges he used illegal doping products to win the race.
In his first interview after his second, or "B" urine sample was reported Saturday to be positive for synthetic testosterone and an out-of-limits testosterone-to-epitestosterone level, Landis lashed out at officials of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) and the World Anti-Doping Agency for giving information on his case to the media while not providing him with reports on his test results.
The results of his initial test were made public July 27.
"I just got the information on the 'A' sample a day and half ago," he said. "I had to find out about the 'B' from reading it in the media."
Landis also pointed out that American sprinter Justin Gatlin's positive "A" test for an illegal testosterone ratio was not announced by track and field officials for three months, "while I had only two days to react to mine. (UCI head) Pat McQuaid said he had to release mine before the lab leaked it."
He also pointed out that his remarkable comeback performance on Stage 17 — the stage where his positive tests came from — was not an anomaly, but his doping tests were.
"I put in more than 20,000 kilometers of training for the Tour. I won the Tour of California, Paris-Nice and the Tour de Georgia. I was tested eight times at the Tour (de France); four times before that stage and three times after, including three blood tests. Only one came back positive.
"Nobody in their right mind would take testosterone just once; it doesn't work that way."
The 30-year-old racer says the biggest mistake he did make was responding to media reports as they surfaced, giving the impression he was coming up with new excuses daily.
"I've been catching a lot of grief in the press: 'Floyd has a new excuse, a new reason for what happened.' This is a situation where I'm forced to defend myself in the media. It would never have happened if UCI and WADA had followed their own rules," Landis said.
"There's some kind of agenda there," he said wearily. "I just don't know what it is."
Describing himself as "reasonable and logical," Landis refuses to see himself as a victim in the case and says there's "zero chance" someone from his Phonak team either inadvertently or purposely gave him synthetic testosterone.
Landis will undergo hip replacement surgery in about two weeks, then prepare for a hearing before the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency sometime in the next month. He has not received notice from USADA.
"Something bad happened to me," he says, "but bicycle racing is the most beautiful sport in the world. I want to remain part of it."
He longs to ride his bike but says that is impossible because of the media crush around his home.
"I need to (ride), believe me," he said. "That will be the best day of the week if that happens."
KOH
Banned for a week for personal abuse. Around long enough to know better.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
Didn't see that post.
To answer it do a google search for banned cyclists and see how many are spanish.
totalfootball, please drop the prejudice claim, it's totally over the top for what was actually said, given that Dodge has explained what he meant. Also please stop playing the "bad moderator" card, Dodge isn't moderating this thread (yet), he's just posting in it; moderators have opinions too.
Dodge, do me a favour and either post a few links backing up what you said, or move on please?
adam
I've asked Dodge to post some links to back up his claim or drop it. I don't expect an instant response. I would expect you to wait a reasonable amount of time, like a civilised person, and not rant at me like a lunatic.
adam
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfootball
Playing with fire here mate.
Read the second part of the post then, where I asked Dodge to respond to your post. And have a bit of patience.Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfootball
That's not a personal insult, it's a statement: your behaviour is ridiculous and unacceptable. Now calm down and stop ranting.Quote:
I thought personal insults were banned on this board. Your behaviour is disgraceful.
adam
FFS you get one busy monday in work...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Puerto
And the links at the bottom of that page
Full coverage of Operation Puerto from cycling news
More reading
The Perfect Storm - Eurosport
Include's timeline of recent drugs scandals/developments in cycling
Spanish scandal not limited to cycling - USA Today
Inside the Blood Doping Investigation Ergogenics.org
"For years Spain has been considered a paradise for athletes open to doping..."
Doctor in Cycling Probe denies charges AP report in San Francisco Chronicle - available elsewhere too
Spanish cycling official has long had doubtsVelonews
"The police operation was necessary. We had gone astray in anti-doping issues in Spain"
And for the record I never once claimed Landis was clean. I responded to "I hope Landis is exposed as the cheat he is and the Tour is given to the deserved winner Periero." posted by finlma with my line that Landis is more likely to be clean than any of the Spanish cyclists. The point of that line was to show how ridiculous finlma's OTT "deserved winner" claim, as noether he, nor anyone else can be 100% certain Periero wasn't on drugs. Once again, for the record, I don't care who/who does not take drugs in cycling.
Lopez popped in because he thought I was having a go at the Spanish people (totally incorrect) and totalfootball got so far up his own arse he start taking offence at everything. I'm not predjudiced againt Spanish cycling BUT more spanish cyclists have been banned for drugs offences than anyone else. The majority of other nationalities have been with Spanish teams. Not all spanish cyclists obviously (and that comment was obviously throwaway but it seems some people have no common sense here). Take that as a personal insult if you want.
I'm now leaving the thread, couldn't care less what you think of that or me. If anyone wants to talk to me about cycling or drugs in sport, PM me. If you're not thick I'll respond
Honest to god. I asked you to stop because I wanted Dodge to reply, how can you not get this? Is your entire purpose in life railing against some bizarre perception that everyone is out to get you?
Dodge has responded now, either get back on topic or find another website to post on. If you insist on continuing with this tirade, you won't be able to post on Foot.ie any more.
And finally: I provide this site as a service to the community, for free. I'll say what I damned well please.
adam
Sorry, I don't have a "deactivate" button. Try this innovative approach: go away.
so...the tour was good.....:)
Too many civil servant jokes. :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I'm not a civil servant anymore