When did shels spend money they dont have ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
I thought we had no money to spend!!!! :eek:
Make your mind up
Printable View
When did shels spend money they dont have ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
I thought we had no money to spend!!!! :eek:
Make your mind up
I would advise my fellow Shels fans to calm down and wait and see what happens regarding this news.
True. Ollie'll be OK though 'cos it seems most Shels fans don't really care what happens at the club so long as they keep winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Lord
It is. It's giving clubs an unfair advatage. By the time your over expenditure has caught up with you, you've already won several titles. You may be bailed out or you may not be, but no one can take away the titles that you got in the time you were spending money you didn't have.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
No, any sensible club budgets on money they know they'll have. Waterford couldn't do that last season and now look at them. It's not good enough to say "they can walk away". If you get married under the knowledge that you can walk away if the other person cheats on you, does that make it ok for them to cheat? The option only exists as a last resort.Quote:
Players are brought in on the basis the money will be there to pay them. If its not then every player can walk away from their contract and find another club.
If you think it's your job to "find the wages every week" then it's easy to see how you found yourselves in this situation. You should sit down before every season, work out a realistic budget of income and base your future expenditure on that. If you have to find the wages every week you've made an awful budgeting mistake.Quote:
The player enters into a contract with the club abd are well covered these days if they dont get their wages. Its the clubs job to find the wages every week otherwise they wont keep their players.
It's unfair to use money you don't have. You wouldn't have ran up a 300k tax bill and been unable to pay the wages and the programme printers if you had the liquid cash at hand. If you can't pay your creditors it's unfair to them and your fellow competitors to continue to increase your debt.Quote:
You lot seem to think its unfair Shels can use investors money to improve the squad. It happens everywhere!! Its part of football.. You take risks and hope it pays off or else you do a UCD aim for the minimum requirements all the time and never try anything new.
You don't just "try something new". This isn't a midlife crisis. Football is rife with clubs spending money they don't have and getting a leg over more fiscally prudent ones and it's unfair. Even if these clubs do collapse they've already claimed titles or prizes that cannot be reversed.
It annoys me to see any club stealing a march on another when they are running up bills they can't pay.Quote:
The fact its been working up to now for shels annoys you.
I only said you didn't pay your players. I don't know anything about the rest.Quote:
Does anybody know how far away the two players who have walked are or what direction they went? They started walking about a week back and we have had no reports since then.... have they reached Cork yet ? or was it Drogheda they were going to.
By running up debts in wages and tax. How are you signing players you can't pay? How are you signing players when you owe huge debts? I know they've been paid now, but to be allowed to carry on while incurring some these debts shows something is wrong. Isn't that how you spend money you don't have? By running up further and further credit?Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Oh and the reasons players don't walk away higgins is that there's a transfer embargo. Add in the fact that Shels pay way, way above what others do and you can see why the players stick around that little longer hoping to get their money
PS, I think if you want to get some informed debate on the matter, you'd probably be advised to keep away from higgins' "Everything is OK" hysterics.
Spending money we dont have :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
What the hell does that mean?
bills are paid !!!
wages are paid !!!
Bills are a part of everyday business.
You buy something at a cost, get the bill and then pay it off. Surely you understand this logic?
The bill with the taxman was settled. Shels were not allowed to increase it any further or they would be wound up! How much more in the way of punishment did you want? As a result the bill was cleared. Lots of EL clubs are in debt to the taxman, are they all cheating?
Thats the way things work.
You owe someone money, you get a bill and you pay the money ?
Every club does this!!
Are you serious that you think every club with debts are cheating :)
When have Shels ever failed to pay their bills ???
Things dont always run as smoothly as you might think in your ideal business world and cash flow can be a major problem but I wouldnt exactly call this cheating.
Does anybody know shels debts or do you all assume its massive and base your arguments on that?
As for me thinking nothing is wrong at shels :rolleyes:
Just because I post here trying to add in some facts to your mad ideas does not mean I think nothing is wrong at shels.
I thought two players walked???Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
You maintain a wage bill that seems to be beyond your capabilities. You incur further debt by continuing to have such a big squad. You don't seem to really have money to pay them on your current income.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
Bills are one thing, wages are another. If you cannot pay the wages on time there is something wrong. Also, above all, the taxman's bills are the ones you don't let yourself get behind on.Quote:
Bills are a part of everyday business.
You buy something at a cost, get the bill and then pay it off. Surely you understand this logic?
I can't speak for other clubs but you had a winding up order issued in the national newspapers. You talk about all debt as if it is the same. There's healthy debt and unhealthy debt. Running up a large debt with the taxman and only paying it after you get the winding up order is unhealthy debt.Quote:
The bill with the taxman was settled. Shels were not allowed to increase it any further or they would be wound up! How much more in the way of punishment did you want? As a result the bill was cleared. Lots of EL clubs are in debt to the taxman, are they all cheating?
This is just specious arguing, as I said, you can't compare all manner of debt.Quote:
Thats the way things work.
You owe someone money, you get a bill and you pay the money ?
Every club does this!!
Are you serious that you think every club with debts are cheating :)
The time they got their winding up order from the taxman? The time they couldn't get a programme out for the Bohs game because they owed the printers money? The time you couldn't pay the players wages on time?Quote:
When have Shels ever failed to pay their bills ???
If you can't budget properly and incur a long term debt you can't guarantee you can pay off then you are cheating.Quote:
Things dont always run as smoothly as you might think in your ideal business world and cash flow can be a major problem but I wouldnt exactly call this cheating.
I'm basing it on the fact you need bridging loans to pay your tax debts, you failed to pay the players on time, you even seemed to fail to pay the programme printers. There's obviously something wrong.Quote:
Does anybody know shels debts or do you all assume its massive and base your arguments on that?
Higgins, you're obviously not a fan of fiscal prudence. You advocate splashing cash now and worrying about it later. Put Peter Ridsdale into Google and have a read about "living the dream" and so on.
Considering Shels have paid the wages for as long as I can remember I would say it seems to indicate it is within our capabilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
I think it far too much myself but you cant say we don’t pay the wages when there is nothing to back it up other then friends of friends of friends who know a player. It wouldnt come as a major shock if one day Shels cant pay the high wages but calm down until you see players leave.
Lots of EL clubs owe the taxman money. It was fairly common up until a year or two before they put more control on it. Shels made a bad call on not keeping up their payments and as a result their bluff was called but again that bill WAS PAID.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
The winding up order came as a shock to most EL fans I would expect and wouldn’t have happened a few years back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
That bill was PAID!!
Shels always pay the money they owe to people but as I said they aim high and cash flow can be a problem at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Printers and taxmen will get their money in FULL. Its not cheating until you don’t pay.. If an EL club goes to the bank for a loan they wont all get the same amount, different clubs have different levels of debt and different capabilities of paying that debt.
If I was the owner of a club I would always try to have money there for every bill and pay on time but it’s a little different in the real world and sometimes things don’t go to plan.
ALL BILLS WERE PAID!!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Its not cheating
Shels have had plenty of loans in the past to pay bills. Like any other debts loans will be paid off over time and everyone gets their money!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
That’s not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
If it was me there I wouldnt spend anything now if I didn’t know where the money was coming from but Ollies track record of paying his debts is fairly impressive.
What bills are not paid by the way or are you just making it up?
Higgins I see where you're going with this one. Yes, now all the bills have been paid, but it seems with great difficulty. The national media has confirmed you're getting advance payments on the sale of Tolka, it's the only way you seem able to pay those bills. Aside from the sale of your capital asset you don't seem to be able to pay the bills. That is fiscal suicide as the capital asset will eventually be gone. You don't seem to even be able to transfer that capital asset into liquid cash. Ok, you may be able to get in investment and you may be able to secure a new home and sell Tolka off fully but these are ifs and buts and you have budgeting and spent on these being absolute conditions. You can't run a football club like that, it's reckless.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
great difficulty is correct!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
I dont for one second think taking bridging loans on the sale of Tolka Park to be doing good business. I have tried to add some facts into the debate but I have never suggested this was a great way to run a football club. Its worrying, very worrying but its not cheating. Cheating would you not paying the massive debts you built up.
I think all clubs should be able to carry on until it comes to the time where they cant manage their debts. When that day happens there should be laws in place to punish the clubs but friends of friends saying people have not got their money and two players walked does not really amount to cheating.
Players are sold all the time or released from contracts when the club can no longer afford their wages and if that day comes soon then well and good but you are jumping the gun a small bit with some of the stories being posted.
Just for the record I dont agree with a lot of the ways Shels run their affairs but its easy for me to say that. I couldnt handle the pressure thats for sure but I will defend those who run the club when I know some of whats posted on here to be a complete twisted version of the truth.
Is that a fact Dodge ? Id love to see your proof because I for one know of a certain team offering players considerably more money than Shels .Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I didn't say all others aido but in general most clubs could not pay the wages shels do
Are you suggesting we murder Ollie if things go belly up?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Well, seeing as you ask...yes.
I'll give you a hand if you want. :)
Nah you're alright,it's against my religion :)
Higgins, put it like this: Shels have sold off their car to pay for petrol. Does that make it any clearer to you?
The cheating part arises from outbidding your rivals for players when you haven't got the money to pay up on the salaries with which you enticed them. It works like this:
Act 1
Manager of Nightdub Athletic: We'll pay you €800 a week.
Player X: Oooh I like the sound of that.
Ollie: We'll pay you €1500 a week.
Player X: Oooh I like the sound of that even better.
Audience: Behind you! ("Man on!" doesn't really hack it in pantomine terms) He hasn't got €1500 a week to pay you!
Ollie: Oh yes I have!
Audience: Oh no he hasn't!
Player X signs for Shels anyway. Six months later, they're ahead of Nightdub Athletic in the chase for the League title and Player X is their top goal scorer.
Act 2
Player X: Ollie, you owe me wages.
Ollie: The taxman's taken all my dough...(this bit can work as a musical interlude if you're a Kinks fan)...here's a nice shiny medal instead.
That's cheating. It's cheating the player and it's cheating the competition.
Incidentally, how much have Pat's lost in the last two years...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Go and log onto cro.ie, pay the small fee and you'll get all the info you need!
I know you want to, go on, go on..............................
More than UCD, less than ShelsQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Spending money you dont have Dodge??
Is that cheating!! :)
It was a rhetorical question. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
I've downloaded the accounts for Bray, Cork, Drogheda, Dublin City, Galway, Kildare, Kilkenny, Pat's, Rovers and Waterford from the CRO. No other club operates as a company, though info's been posted here about Bohs and Harps, while I have a decent understanding of UCD's accounts (though I'm not that much involved in the club).
Bohs are a company, but the incorporated name is as gaelige. You need to search for them under Cumann Peile Boithemach (sp) Teo:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Spot iontach é sin - maith an fear! :)
Did a business name search on all the clubs to find their trading names - think I didn't bother with Bohs because I knew it was a members' club and therefore not a company!
Are there any shels fans here who acknowledge what is realy going on at their club cos all I've seen are a few kids who are to put it mildly scaringly ignorant.
The players were given cheques before they departed for Lithuania and these bounced magoo style all over the place when they arrived home. The manager is owed a five figure sum. This is common knowledge and just cos its not in all the papers doesnt mean its not true.
KOH
First I've heard of that bit NY Hoop. Any source?Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
This news is everywhere and the source is a high-ranking Shels employee. Shels are totally and utterly fooked. Anyone who doesn't realise this is fooling themselves as surely as Ollie is fooling them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Shels are currently a mix of SRFC 1987 and SRFC 2005 - Ollie is doing a great impression of Kilcoyne and Maguire and the same time.
KOH
If the money is still owed that we certainly have an intriguing July ahead of us. Surely though, going by rumours, they'd have walked out again if they had walked out before?:confused:
Threatened to walk out. They hear stories of money coming to Shels and stick around for their share. Nobody else will pay Colin Hawkins or Dabve Rogers well above €1,000 a week
Not much point walking out now when the transfer window's open next week surely?
There is one club, Drogheda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Where is it mentioned then?Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
In a phonecall I received yesterday, at the game last night, in the pub afterwards, in work this morning etc, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmandmythdledge
This is a tiny league, everyone knows everyone else. Just because the hacks are in thrall to Ollie and won't do a bit of digging doesn't mean it ain't so.
They all reported Ollie's "new investors" story as gospel despite the fact that it was a blatant lie. I heard him myself on Newstalk and nearly chocked on my Parma ham on turnover sandwich.
KOH
we do know whats going on...Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
but there is still lies added here to the fatcs that need to be defended.
If you read back through the posts it never says all is lovely and happy in Shelsland.
Shels posters are trying to get you to stop making stuff up on the basis of rumours.
Some of what on here the past two weeks is true and some is not.....
But sure keep adding to the fire if you like, I'll join in!
Anyone hear Ollie sold the bulbs in the floodlights to pay for a football for the game on Saturday ?
ok higgins, yes/no answers.
did the players strike for 2 days last week due to non payment of monies owed?
is this money, or part of it, still due?
have you sold the lease to tolka park to a property consortium?
has this money been used for day to day expenditure at shels?
have the printers been paid?
has olly made any statement re the sale of tolka to the supporters?
are you moving to santry, a stadum with approx 5% of the seating capacity of tolka park?
seriously, where are the lies?
May I add one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
Do you believe a stadium with covered seats for 800 people belongs in the new look premier division next season?
I'd take a guess at 5 yes's 1 no and a maybe :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
You know enough to work out where to place the answers!
One big difference - I don`t think shels will have a taxman that is prepared to write off the couple of million that he did for roversQuote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers