way to derail a good thread there boys.
Who give a poo what he says he is a british man like it or not.
HE DID MAKE THE COMMENT ON THE FA CUP HE CUDNT GIVE A CRAP ABOUT ROONEY CASE CLOSED ,now can we get back to how crap Ireland are please :O)
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way to derail a good thread there boys.
Who give a poo what he says he is a british man like it or not.
HE DID MAKE THE COMMENT ON THE FA CUP HE CUDNT GIVE A CRAP ABOUT ROONEY CASE CLOSED ,now can we get back to how crap Ireland are please :O)
The statement is daft. Never say never and all that...
We actually did have the talent to get to Germany. I don't care what anyone says, we were definitely good enough to take sufficient points from Israel to get at least second this time around, if not first. If you're good enough to be winning 1-0 after 90 minutes you're good enough to be winning after 94. If you're good enough to be 2-0 up & totally bombard the opposition goal for a further 40 minutes, you're good enough to win.
What a wasted opportunity. ****ing scandalous. I point the finger at players and management alike.
Euro 2008 group is interesting. Plenty of scope for teams to take points off each other. I think we're as likely to come second as come 5th, with 3rd or 4th more likely. I think we'll be a better team 15 months from now & I hope we can get a decent start to build on. If we're playing catch up at any stage I think we'll suffer.
Anyway, with the Charleroi case etc., who knows what international football will look like in 5 years from now?
Great Post Stuttgart esp about the 5th or 2nd. I think we will come 2nd or 3rd but thats me been optimistic.
Also can anyone provide us with the exact quotes that Lawro said and were they qualified.
I don't understand all the pessimistic comments about Ireland. We have and nearly always have had a number of top players. How many Czech (or even German players) are playing at higher levels in better leagues than our first 11?
We didn't qualify last time because Kerr was a joke and was far out of his depth and even then it was close.
My only worry is Staunton. He might turn out to be a worse spoon than Kerr but I'm willing to give him a go and Robson behind him can only be a good thing.
We should have a better team during the upcoming qualifying campaign than we did for the majority of the last qualifying campaign with the emergence of O'Brien, Ireland, Garvan, Mc Geady, Doyle and Elliot (remember the campaign doesn't start until August and will last for more than a year so it's likely a number of these players will be viable starters during that time.
I do worry about donkeys like O'Shea though continuing to get a game but surely that's more the managers fault than a lack of resources (anyone else would be better anyway).
Our first 11 by the end of the qualifying (a year and a half away) could be:
Given
J O'Brien Dunne A O'Brien Finnan ( surely better than Harte or O'Shea at LB)
Mc Geady (A Reid maybe?) S Reid Ireland Duff
Keane Doyle
Unless the German and the Czechs have some serious young talent coming through themselves that should be good enough for a second place finish bar injury problems in certain positions and to certain unreplaceable players (Given, Duff, Keane).
My only worry about youngirish's arguement (which is one I support, though partly out of wishful thinking rather than pure conviction) is that there are still big "ifs" surrounding the likes of Ireland, McGeady and Joey O'Brien. I just wish they were further along in their development so we could be certain they're up to it at the level we require. I've seen enough, albeit through my green tinted glasses, that each can be a real star, but equally we've been let down so often with the likes of Sadlier, McPhail, Sean Thornton etc. who promised so much but did **** all for a variety of reasons.
I think the comment about Robson is spot on. If Staunton does get some mad tactical idea into his mind I'm sure Robson will be able to dissaude him early enough. I suspect Stan is acting almost like an off-field captain / motivator, with the finer strategic points being determined by Robson. This is certainly how I'd like it to be.
There's still the Holland game to come, so it's not like that was the last oppertunity to prepare. The experiment playing three up front is quite reasonable, given the players we have, and the three at the back might have been influenced at least somewhat by the number of defenders we had injured.Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfootball
It wouldn't have been an absurdity if it had worked, either. ;)
I'm confident we can qualify. The Czechs are an ageing team and Nedved will not feature after the WC. The Germans could be on a high after world cup success or in the process of hiring a new manager if Jurgen cocks up their home advantage. Maybe I am too optimistic but I'd rather be that way than Lawro's slit my wrist attitude.
To qualify =
We have to win our home games, we had plenty of chances to nail Israel but let them off the hook. That was the night I was going to see Hatton-Kostya at the MEN.......never so gutted in my life as I walked up to the MEN doors.
A point in Stuggart would be the perfect start as well!
He said not 5 minutes ago "They havent really got going yet , England , have They"
Well if the G14 backed court case in Europe goes against FIFA, the FAI will not be able to afford to pay the Premiership players wages and we will again have an entirely domestic based International squad playing in the Eircom League. That is the case that John Delaney was making to the government anyhow , and if that comes to pass and we remain 4th seeds or worse then it is true we will never again qualify for anything until the European Championships Final stages are expanded to 24 teams !
Lawero is incredibly cheeky but he may not be too far off the mark. Most of our players are crap now. it was Roy keane who dragged the standard higher
agree with stuttgart-it WAS nothing short of scandalous the way we played in the last campaign (save for a decent away performance against the french where if we had any real balls we would have won). Kerr and players were to blame.
you'd have to worry for the next campaign. personally ill be happy if we give it a right go and play positive, attacking football. its the only chance we have of getting through. maybe we should play like the israelis did last season??!
One change I'd like to see staright away is the binning of this outdated "win at home, draw away" notion. If you look at the teams that qualify regularly they tend to win enough games to allow for the odd slip up. I think this is true even of the second tier teams that make it.
Not contradicting myself, but right now I'd happily buy a draw in Germany & Czech Republic. But I'd happily take our chances in Slovakia and Wales (where Toshack is shaping a very young side and with half-decent results recently). Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Maybe some more away friendlies will be of help.
Is this the same Mark Lawrenson who said that you will never win the title with kids:eek:
Listen - lets be honest he's entitled to his opininon but he has been wrong before....
one point about our apparent disgraceful performances in qualifying. i hope that hindsight will show our last qualifying group to be one of the toughest ever. Dont be surprised to see France AND Switzerland in the quarter finals of the world cup and i expect Isreal to go close in thier qualifying group also next time around. We were guilty of poor performances against Isreal twice - France and Switzerland were both excellent sides and while we didnt play well in some of those games we were not far away from qualifying. The group we have next is not a good as the last one.
That was HansonQuote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Tom at toe / Tom aa toeQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
:o
youre having a laugh surely! France are a quality side but switzerland, israel are poor-though we made them look good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
a group with germany, slovakia and czechs to get out of (not to mention wales who will be dodge) is easier than the group kerr had??
No way :eek:
My point was largely directed at the Israel performances, and at players and management alike. But equally, although a draw against Switzerland may be seen as a respectable result if taken in isolation, the manner of the 0-0 draw in the context of a must win game was shocking. Having virtually no efforts at goal was inexcusable, though Harte did miss a sitter early on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
I also accept that Markus Merck (spelling?) ruined the flow of the game, that Robbie, Andy Reid and others were only barely match fit & Duff was injured, but despite all this where was our renowned spirit? The limp nature of our exit left a very sour taste.
Have to Disagree. Switzerland are an excellent young side who i remember rightly did very well at the European U-21 championships a few years ago. Isreal you forget to mention also got Draws in Switzerland and Fance so again a decent side. In my post earlier i said that hindsight will hopefully prove me right but it's only my own opininon.Quote:
Originally Posted by as_i_say
As for the crop we are going to be playing. Germany - Ballack aside have zilch we should worry about.Decent side but hardly world class like France. They will also have new manager as they are going to die at the world cup. Czechs are a decent side who despite ageing are still a force. Slovakia are average - certainly not as good as Isreal IMO. While Wales - well if we dont beat Wales twice we may as well forget it anyway. Wales are absolutly rubbish. They didnt play well once during the last qualifying and got Murdered at home by Poland and Austria. Thier defence is just so weak
Maybe so, but we're playing Slovakia who are a lot better:). Got to a play-off in last campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
thats what got to me the most about it as well, soul destroying to see us just concede chance of qualifying so tamely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
so how concerned are you about the half-arsed display the other night v chile then stutt? was Stan not meant to be the antidote to the ill-spirit in the camp etc, and yet the men he selected let him down badly, i.m.o.. they treated the game as an end of season inconvienence, which it may be to them, (and possibly with some justification) but to the man who just took them off to portugal, it was important id imagine. id expected a bit more from them for Stans sake if nothing else, you know?
ok i agree wales are muck. slovakia (not slovenia btw) will be a very stern test. Israel punched way abvove their weight and got results cos of a very average swiss and at the time france side (who started to play when zidane and co came back)
also the notion of world cup hangovers i believe is tenuous, but we may indeed profit from people retiring from the likes of germay and cze.
Meant slovakia sorry - think i'll go away and have a lie down actually. Between Hanson/Lawerenson and slovenia/slovakia i have a pain in my brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I don't really know, to be honest. I'd say "concerned" - yes, but "despairing" - no. You?Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
On one hand, I'm absolutely certain that the result counts for nothing. I'm just about prepared to accept that it may genuinely be hard for the players to get fully fired up for such a game at this time of the year & maybe the week spent in Portugal was more important. We've traditionally been crap in May / June friendlies from what I can remember. Home defeats to Greece & Scotland spring to mind as does Nigeria in 2002 and the Unity Cup.
But I have grave doubts over one or two (but not many more) players and I'm concerned that Staunton saw fit to move Steven Reid away from the position he's excelled in for both Blackburn & Ireland recently.
I suppose I'll only be concerned if we fail to learn from some of the OBVIOUS lessons from last week. There's also O'Shea I suppose. Of all the players out there he was maybe the one with the most to prove. I'm disappointed we didn't have an opportunity to look at the likes of Paddy McCarthy, Joey O'Brien, Alan Quinn etc. and in away the lack of availability of certain fringe players made the whole exercise a bit redundant.
I really do think that if we have our strongest players available and when it counts we can improve on last year's performances. Psychologically it'd have been nice to go into the summer on a bit of a high. Reading Bobby Robson's assessment of the match last week made me feel better.
I would not get too down about the chile game in the same way I would not get to up about the Sweden game. I remember thinking coming out of the Game in Holland that times are good for this team, but 18 months later and the team had come 4th in teh group. So friendlies are nice but nothing to get carried away with. Robsons comments after the game show that when it matters I think the experimenting will have shown more of what we cant do rather than what we can do. Stephen Reid in the centre for us is vital for us in my view and a back four containing Finnan is also vital.
bottom line-twas only a friendly. throughout ericssons tenure with england they have lost an absolute rake of friendlies-and ericsson learnt a lot in defeat, lets hope stan can do the same.
Unlike the last two campaigns, I don't have the expectation that we should qualify next time. There are too many variables and the last friendly brought up a few more.
I'd hope that the Chile match brought out few problems "early doors".
Nobody quite knows what happenned to cause the collapse in our last 2 qual games. Eliminating Kerr does not neccessarily eliminate the problems behind the collapse.
I still don't know what Lawrenson wrote, apart from whether he used one small word.
Whatever he gets paid for sitting in the commentary box beside Motson, it's not enough. Lawrenson was an absolute class player for Ireland and would fit in many people's all time Irish teams. We were fortunate to have had him available.
No we didn't. If we made them look good maybe they'd be getting the credit they deserve. They were really poor against us in both games. I seen probably half of Israel's games in the qualifiers (thanks to Setanta) and their performances against Switzerland and France were a lot better than against us. That was mainly down to the fact that they thought of us as the best team in the group and sat back hoping to catch us on the break. The best thing to do in that situation is just don't give them possession and we managed that for just over 90 minutes.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by as_i_say
I think if we'd have beaten Israel in one of those matches we'd be preparing for the world cup atm. They bottled it though in so many games. We were world class in friendlies with no pressure. :)
Someone should send John O'shea a video of Lawrenson's performances under Jack.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Remind me: did Lawrenson retire from all football prior to Euro '88, or just international football?
Played even better pre Jack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Yep he had to quit playing football altogether in the spring of '88. Therefore he never made it onto the pitch at Stuttgart '88.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
He definitely used the word 'we' in reference to England at least once last night.
But not as a converted midfielder?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
You are fortunate you stuck in the question mark.
You should know there was nothing to convert about Lawrenson's talent.
At least he played midfield in the 2-1 wcq game '80 V Holland and scored the winner.
I only watched the first half but he definitely didn't in the first. I've yet to even get the feeling that Lawro supports England. Alan Hanson seems more pro-England than Lawro.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbrett
Agree. Like Andy Gray*, Hansen plays to his audience. If he was to diss the English football team as often as he'd probably like to, he wouldn't have a job.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
There was a MOTD analysis on England's WC chances when the draw was made back in December and it was clear that both Lawrenson & Hansen were distancing themselves from England. Gary got a little precious over it, just like he did when both the others said that Robbie Keane was better than Defoe recently.
With Andy Gray, the guy's either a total mercenary, or one of those Rangers hardliners who supports England over Scotland because Scotland isn't "British enough" in a curious right-wing kind of way.
*And also Alan Greene (Norn Irish) on 5 Live and Patrick Barclay (Scottish) in the Sunday Telegraph, though in fairness to Barclay in particular his support is purely for the team, he's very outspoken about the support. Andy Gray wouldn't say a bad word about the English support.
Nothing fortunate - I always cover myself!Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Remember Lawro's goal, diving header at the far post, yes? Not dissimilar to Stapleton's goal in Belgium, the first equaliser, in '86.
at what stage in game?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbrett
Hansen used it last night and then corrected himself not sure Lawrenson did though. Andy Gray is just a mercenery who gets caught up in the emotion but I am sure his background means he has no hatred of England that an ex Celtic player or a big Tartan Army might have. But I dont think Gray Supports England over Scotland.
Anyone else think the title of this thread would make a great T-shirt? :)
Lawro seems harsh in his comments about ROI. They were unlucky not to qualify last time and with abit of luck have chance in their nxt group. They are probably 3rd favourite for the group.
Could it have been we we.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbrett
Sorry just a bit bored