Is Alex Bruce the ultimate mercenary?

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21/02/2006, 9:37 PM
pete

I was just looking at the last Maderia Cup winning squad & Keith Keane (Luton Town) & Darren O'Dea (Celtic) are not included in sweden squad. Looks like the last merecenary has taken their positions?

I couldn't find info on Keane (FAi.ie sh!te) but can see that O'Dea has put in the effort to at least play at U18. IMO this is a big issue of parachuting mercenaries into the more high profile U21 & senior squads.

Just because some players in the past were mercenaries doesn't make it right to continue the practice.
21/02/2006, 11:50 PM
tricky_colour

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

This is the real issue to debate here. Anyone bringing up the 2g or 3g stuff is IMO off topic.

If you are irish you play for Ireland. There should be no decision to make - if you have to think about it then you are not irish. Just to be clear - a 2 or 3g person can have dual nationality but when the offer comes around it should not require a decision as he should know already.

I think you have to accept that some people do have a mixed nationality
lets say for example that you have grandparents who are English,
Irish, Scottish and Welsh and you were born on a cruise ship in international
waters (and some people have a lot more complex circumstances than that), they do have a decision to make.
With the advent of cloning and surogate mothers things could get even more
complicated!
I expect if most people traced their family tree back far enough they would
be in for a surprise or too, apparently most people in Ireland can't do
that very far because most of the records were lost in a fire :rolleyes:
Also you get some people who are "100%" Irish who are not particularly
keen (no pun intended ;) ) on playing for their country anyway.

Obviously we don't want any Tom Dick or Harry playing for Ireland (especially
if they are shiite) but some people do have a decision to make so I think you
should look on it as a compliment if they choose Ireland.

Anyhow as I understand it he is a right back and has just played 3 Premiership
games so I think Finnan, Carr, O'Brien and Kelly will be a tad ahead of him in the pecking order, and quite frankly he would have more chance of making the
squad if he declared for England, however he qualifies and if he is good
enough I have no problem with him if he is selected.
21/02/2006, 11:51 PM
Feech

McCarthy Irish? Don't make me laugh - he's said in interviews that he was English till he was in his 3rd decade in this world...
22/02/2006, 12:21 AM
The Legend

All i can say is shame Stevie Bruce didnt declare during his prime!
22/02/2006, 2:05 AM
Clipper

As far as I remember Steve Bruce tried to declare for us, but had an under age cap for England so wasn't eligible.
22/02/2006, 5:02 AM
Plastic Paddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feech

McCarthy Irish? Don't make me laugh - he's said in interviews that he was English till he was in his 3rd decade in this world...

Sources?

What utter nonsense. He captained and managed his country and still the likes of you won't accept him as Irish. Disgraceful. :mad:

:ball: PP
22/02/2006, 7:20 AM
Den Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by as_i_say

Argh. I believe there is a difference between grabbing a granny and having an irish parent. I dont know for sure about Mcloughlin or sheridan but mccarthy and breen have irish fathers and breen in particular was brought up to be irish-going to bogball games etc.

IMO You cannot compare the likes of Kilbane, Breen, David Connolly, Mick mccarthy with Alex Bruce, Matt Holland or Clinton Morrisson

Sheridan's parents came from Ballymun, and he played underage all yhe way up for Ire. No doubting that he is Irish
22/02/2006, 7:22 AM
Den Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

They have homosexual marraige in Britain now.

ha! thats the way forward. If some of you love the team as much as you claim......
22/02/2006, 9:27 AM
Hither green

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Obviously we don't want any Tom Dick or Harry playing for Ireland (especially if they are shiite) but some people do have a decision to make so I think you should look on it as a compliment if they choose Ireland.

I've no problem with players having to make a decision, I've a problem with those not able to make a decision or admit to making that decision for dubious reasons. Those that play for us because their first choice, england, aren�t interested and they want to further their careers playing international football! Those like Bruce who pick which country to play for because one is better than the other! Any of those players that we have to cajole or bribe to play for us, the likes of Nolan for example!

I was reading about the young Fulham lad, Michael Timlin, in this week�s Irish Post. Born in London but always want to play for Ireland, in fact turned down a call to play for the english U17 team, that�s what we need more of!
22/02/2006, 10:50 AM
Block G Raptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

With the advent of cloning things could get even more
complicated!

If Ronaldinho is cloned in Dublin can he play for us? :D
(now where did i leave that turkey baister)
22/02/2006, 10:53 AM
blobbyblob

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Obviously we don't want any Tom Dick or Harry playing for Ireland .

Mercenaries are one thing but rejecting Toms, Dicks and Harrys is going a bit too far.

The Honey Monster will be none too pleased to hear that.
22/02/2006, 10:53 AM
Block G Raptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Obviously we don't want any Tom Dick or Harry playing for Ireland (especially
if they are [shiite) .

whats wrong with a shi-ite muslim playing for Ireland ;)
22/02/2006, 10:56 AM
Dillo

I wouldn't have Alex Bruce in the Longford Town team. He'll never make a centre half and is certainly no addition to the irish squad. Is this some kind of ****take or something?! :confused:
22/02/2006, 11:54 AM
as_i_say

Quote:

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

whats wrong with a shi-ite muslim playing for Ireland ;)

dam better delete that :ball:
22/02/2006, 12:03 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by as_i_say

dam better delete that :ball:

Fair play for deleting that post.
22/02/2006, 12:26 PM
thegit

What about Roy Keane I believe he's from London originally.:eek:

Haa haa ! maybe not, but he deserted us in our hour of need (don't worry I'm not starting all that again). All those so called mercenaries like Houghton and such made kids like Duff and Robbie Keane dream about playing for Ireland. Who cares about where they come from if there good enough and want to play as soon as they put on that green shirt there Irish to me.
22/02/2006, 12:33 PM
Dillo

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy

And how many times have you seen him play?

Saw him play a few times for Birmingham lately. He's too small, he doesn't have the build or the ability. Only reason he's playing for brum is because his dad's in charge.
22/02/2006, 12:44 PM
thegit

yeah cause his dad's under no pressure to get results, do you really think Bruce would throw him in if he wasn't ready ? I'm not saying he's great but who knows he could make the grade!
22/02/2006, 1:35 PM
OwlsFan

I've seen Bruce play a number of times when he was on loan at Wednesday. He is not very good - treats having the ball at his feet like a hot potato to be gotten rid of anywhere, any place asap.

As for the usual McCarthy is English s**t - how many Englishmen did you see crying when we lost the play-off in Belgium ? Mick is Irish with a father from Tallow, County Waterford and I've never seen anyone wear the green jersey with as much pride as he did. Just because you're born in a stable, it doesn't make you a horse or a slight variation of this from Cork is "if the cat had kittens in the greenhouse, would you call them tomatoes?".
22/02/2006, 1:53 PM
as_i_say

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

"if the cat had kittens in the greenhouse, would you call them tomatoes?".

People from Cork are tick.
22/02/2006, 2:25 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by as_i_say

People from Cork are tick.

Oh the irony.
22/02/2006, 2:29 PM
NeilMcD

Thats post of the year for all the wrong reasons.
22/02/2006, 2:57 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by as_i_say

People from Cork are tick.

Spellchecker? :rolleyes:
22/02/2006, 3:05 PM
as_i_say

eh joke.
22/02/2006, 3:13 PM
NeilMcD

As I say, its worth putting (sic) beside a mistake that you are putting there on purpose as it clears these things up.
22/02/2006, 3:42 PM
Forever Dreamin

Wonder do carlsberg do passports??? bruce is a mercenary but if hes good ok and if not tough sh** wont lose any sleep over him one way or the other

Dont ever tell Mick McCarthy he shouldnt have played or managed us he gave far more than certain people from the peoples republic of you know where.... if they qualify try them and if not good enough dump them and dont lose sleep about it
22/02/2006, 6:09 PM
Closed Account 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

This is the real issue to debate here. Anyone bringing up the 2g or 3g stuff is IMO off topic.

If you are irish you play for Ireland. There should be no decision to make - if you have to think about it then you are not irish. Just to be clear - a 2 or 3g person can have dual nationality but when the offer comes around it should not require a decision as he should know already.

:( :( :(

Agree 110%.

They used to define a nanosecond as the time between a traffic light going green in New York and the car behind you hooting his horn... should be the amount of time it takes one of our players to decide they want to play for us. In fact there shouldnt be a decison at all, it should be an instince. If a player has to deliberate over which team he wants to play for then I'd prefer them to play for another team. Or perhaps we could play them for half a match and never play them again, merely to "lock them out" of playing for any other international team.

That said I support the team, and if "mercenaries" play for us, then even if its not ideal IMO, I will still get behind the team, and wont slag them off at matches etc.
23/02/2006, 11:58 AM
OwlsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Agree 110%.

They used to define a nanosecond as the time between a traffic light going green in New York and the car behind you hooting his horn... should be the amount of time it takes one of our players to decide they want to play for us. In fact there shouldnt be a decison at all, it should be an instince. If a player has to deliberate over which team he wants to play for then I'd prefer them to play for another team.

110% :confused: ?

By that logic, a player who has to consider which country he wants to play for shouldn't be allowed play for any country since the nanosecond has passed for all of his possible countries.

All I want is whoever plays for Ireland gives 100% on the field when he dons the green jersey. The rest I couldn't care less about.
23/02/2006, 12:15 PM
as_i_say

we all dream of a team of gary breens...
23/02/2006, 12:32 PM
Paddy Garcia

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

I will still get behind the team, and wont slag them off at matches etc.

I think that is very decent of you indeed.:rolleyes:
23/02/2006, 2:28 PM
Adrianovic

Well, its unfortunate that he's said that.

I can't imagine unless there's a spate of injuries that he'll have his services required though. Right back is probably one of our best covered for positions, especially if Carr comes back - and he's no centre half.

Think this will be a non-event.

Also, I think he's fair enough to declare for us if he wants. I know that Kevin Nolan considers himself English (and isn't eligable for us, but for arguments sake), but if he declared for us I'd treat him the same - and the fact he'd be quality would be a bonus.

Ade
23/02/2006, 2:40 PM
ThatGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by blobbyblob

Hes honest. Better than picking us because we are the poorer team. Get over it. If Stan does one good thing in his tenure and gathers enough quality talent to supply us for the next 10 years of entertainment, they can come from greenland for all I care. They dont have to be able to recite Peig and have shamrock growing out of their hole to qualify and action speaks louder than accents.

Let me remind you of the some of the mercenaries as you put it responsible for the memories that we have had over the last 20 years.

Houghton
Aldridge
Sheedy
Cascarino
Townsend
McAteer - got us to a WC
Sheridan - Classic
Morris,
McCarthy,
Hughton,
Galvin,
Lawrenson
Holland
Breen
McLoughlin - got us to a WC

You take those names out of Irish football history over the last 20 years and come back and tell me that we'd have had half the pleasure. Once they pull on the green jersey and play with pride, I dont care if they are Ching Chong O Flaherty - They are Irish.

What are you lumping MCCarthy and Breen in with that lot for? They are Irish in all but birth-place? The likes of Houghton should never have been let near our squad, but Mick and Breen are as Irish as anyone despite being born abroad.
23/02/2006, 2:50 PM
Den Perry

true

I totally agree with you about Houghton
23/02/2006, 3:18 PM
Dillo

Good man Tommy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy

Oh right.Well thats fair enough cos Cannavaro is small and he is rubbish as well.:rolleyes:

Imagine comparing Cannavaro with Alex Bruce... :rolleyes: :o
23/02/2006, 3:22 PM
garykelly

short memories?

so those of us who revelled in '88, '90 & '94 thought "yeah its great, but i wish we'd had all irish players born and bred in ireland". yeah right!

the facts are ireland will never have the resources to field an entire team from players born and bred in this country. ireland use the 'granny rule' to such effect becuase they need to.(and maybe this is down to the FAI who are happy to farm irish players off to the uk in the hope the odd one develops). The rules are there and unless they change then what's the issue. A big debate doesnt need to ensue everytime a player declares for ireland. "oh he's more irish than him" etc etc. the fact is were it not for the rules as they are, Ireland would never have qualified for any tournament. If staunton didnt pick any players who quailify by this rule then we'd all be whinging saying he should do.

If Alex Bruce wants to declare for Ireland then let him. He's only going to be in the u-21s and i doubt he'll make the senior step-up. his wording was a bit askew but his dad would have advised him to declare for ireland. steve bruce would have played in the 94 world cup had it not been for playing an england b game. and we'd all have accepted him without much question at the time.

for me alot of people debating someones "irishness" are being hypocritical. as i'm sure these people would more than celebrate (as they have done in the past) if/when ireland qualify for the next tournament. so let's get on with it and accept that the rule wont be changing.

I think if the FAI could develop the domestic league to be stronger and professional all round that more players could develop at home and have a better chance of making the grade than partaking in the lottery that is travelling to the uk to etch out a career. Kevin doyle is a good example, daryl murphy is doing better in this 2nd stint across the water having got things back on track in the EL. shane long went from cork underage straight into reading first team squad. hopefully players will realise that staying at home can be a good option to develop. the more that do, the stronger the league and eventually the national team will become.
23/02/2006, 3:31 PM
as_i_say

94 yeah i wish we had more irish born lads. 7 irish born from 22 is pretty poor by all accounts but agree with garykelly, the rule is there and we should use it.

however saying that its not much use to us when we get sh ite players like macken/bruce and then have the gems like mcgeady/steven reid ignored (still baffled by this under kerr).

but people are always going to want to debate this because it is worth talking about/its controversial and its good to moan. sometimes.
23/02/2006, 3:49 PM
paul_oshea

if him declaring for us and got us to a world cup would we still be having this argument, sorry discussion?

eh me no think so, and me think that ye lot would be extremely happy and revelling with all the other revellers and fair weathers...
23/02/2006, 5:11 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

if him declaring for us and got us to a world cup would we still be having this argument, sorry discussion?

eh me no think so, and me think that ye lot would be extremely happy and revelling with all the other revellers and fair weathers...

But not all of us. Some of us would still be saying its a joke, and that results aren't everything when it comes to the national team
23/02/2006, 7:27 PM
Closed Account 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

I think that is very decent of you indeed.:rolleyes:

Thanks, but really I think it's the least I can do.
23/02/2006, 7:51 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalfootball

'erhn'

You need to move your left hand one key to the left. ;)

Top tip.

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