Last I heard, they were both fictional:confused: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
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Last I heard, they were both fictional:confused: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
I created this thread for a reason. That reason was to gauge an opinion of the feeling amongst irish football fans in relation to whether they would be prepared to sacrifice qualification for a major competition for the pride of being able to say that there were no mercenarys in our side. If you cannot see that then maybe you need to read through it again, there are many people who have contributed contradictive views on this thread. People may not agree with them but they are able to accept them and take them into account. Comments like yours are not welcome contributions, they are needless and stem from either a lack of knowledge on the subject or a distinct amount of ability to see what the question is asking. I would advise you to read the question again, if you wish to make a contribution to this discussion then that is more than welcome, providing that this contribution is going to be sensible and related to the topic in discussion, if not, you know where to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
Yes because all the Easter Bunny has to offer are a bunch of fecking chocolate eggs :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
I thought my supposition was every bit as rational, reasonable and downright plausable as yours about our qualification for a tournament hingeing on our willingness to sell our pure gaelic celtic souls down the river so that someone you've deemed a "johnny foreigner" can be the catalyst, the linchpin, the final piece in the jigsaw as it were that somehow pushes us over the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
If you want to romanticise about all Irish players being raised on the slopes of the twelve pins, recanting the mystic tale of an Tain Bo, hurl in hand and sliotar in fist then be my fcuking guest mate. But Irish citizenship is a legal matter -end of. If someone's entitled to it by grace of our law then best of luck to them (and not for you to sneer on their good fortune). If thereafter they happen to be handy footballers -then bonus for the rest of us.
They've been the minority though Lopez, unless you're trying to goad them out of the undergrowth? I think it's a bit disingenuous to continue to bring it up as if the majority who are against mercenaries also share that view.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
perhaps slightly off-topic, but I'd like the opinions of those who voted not to play a mercenary - is this guy a mercenary or not? And would you have a problem with him playing for Ireland? And what if he decides to declare for his native country?
For me, nope, not at all. We're going to see more and more of this as Ireland becomes a more cosmopolitan society.
From http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stor...=12&si=1548267
Name: Emeka Onwubiko
Age: 16
Born: Nigeria
IRISH underage international football is at its healthiest since the successful days of Brian Kerr in the late 90s. Following impressive displays by the under-17s and 19s late last year, they both face into an elite qualifying stage for the European Championship finals in March and May respectively.
But manager Sean McCaffrey may have to do without one of his brightest emerging talents when the under-17 team faces Romania, Israel and Serbia & Montenegro in Dublin at the end of March.
Emeka Onwubiko arrived in Ireland from Nigeria shortly after his father and mother three years ago and his progress through the ranks since then has been rapid. He has been part of the Irish under-15 and 16 set-ups for the last two years, but has now hit a stumbling block - he doesn't have an Irish passport.
The issue currently lies with the appropriate authorities, but as is the case with these applications, they tend to take longer than expected and all the 16-year-old can do is wait.
McCaffrey for one is hoping for a speedy conclusion as the striker is very much part of his plans.
Vincent Butler has been nurturing Onwubiko since he was encouraged to have a look at a youngster playing for St Kevin's Boys back in 2003. The Kennedy Cup, a competition where schoolboy leagues from all over Ireland send their most promising players, is the usual environment for unearthing emerging talent, but Onwubiko fell through that particular net and luckily Butler spotted him that day.
Since then he has represented Ireland a number of times, but, because of his visa situation, he has only been able to play home internationals. Despite that Onwubiko still managed to finish as top goalscorer for the under-16s last year.
Butler believes that the youngster definitely has the potential to be a professional footballer. At only 16 his pace, strength and touch are exceptional and that has attracted the attention of Premiership scouts.
However, like playing for the under-17s, Onwubiko must hold an Irish passport before being offered a pro-contract and this has already cost him a chance with Manchester City who turned down an opportunity to sign him.
West Bromwich Albion did offer him a two-year-deal which would commence in June and if the deal goes through, the Irish public could be hearing a lot more about Onwubiko over the next few years.
"It would be brilliant if I got a chance to play in England," says the youngster. "It's been great playing with Ireland over the last couple of years, but I was shocked when I found out I couldn't play anymore after all the hard work I had put in.
"After the first phase I thought that was it, it's over, but I have some hope now that I will get a passport and be able to play with the under-17s."
BTW that lad has a dublin accent (for those who are hung up on accents...)
He's not a mercenary - he's come up through the ranks. He'd be a mercenary if he said he wanted to go and play for England now (but there's no evidence of that - just of another Irish club falling over themselves to send a young lad to England at the earliest opportunity).
I’m sure that’ll be controversial for many. I guess, for obvious reasons, countries like england and France had to deal with this issue years ago whilst it’s quite a new one for Ireland but I don’t have a problem with him representing Ireland – assuming he becomes a citizen and is willing to commit to the country. But nor would I have a problem with him wanting to represent Nigeria. With population movements all countries are going to have to get used to such scenarios.
What is "technically eligible". There is no such thing. Either you are eligible or not. Irish citizen = eligible. Not Irish citizen = not eligible. Like it our not, Clinton Morrison is an Irish passport holder, and as such is as eligible as any other Irish citizen. The only valid reason for "blocking" any passport holder from representing Ireland should be based on their footballing ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
Thats not the point. The point is he didn't know he was Irish nor had any intention of becoming Irish until he was asked (because of the name Morrison) did he have any Irish blood and if he did would he like to "join" our squad. After finding out he was, and then issueing a come and get me plea to the English team, then the jamiacan team, and then finally settling on Ireland
Doesn't matter a rats ass. He was perfectly within his rights to do all of the above though I'd question the accuracy of your version of events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
So the guys a bit of a doofus for not knowing he probably had Irish background. Are we going to start maligning slightly thick footballers now? Coz if we are I predict a long winter of discontent.
I don't know the exact rules but it's not just about citizenship/passport holding as he no doubt also holds a British passport. The key point is that he was no doubt approached by the FAI prior to getting the passport. If he identified that closely with Ireland he'd have surely had a passport beforehand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbod
Did he? I don't remember the Jamaica bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Certainly did talk about playing for Jamaica.
AFAIK it's his mother's side that he's Irish, so his surname is irrelevant in this caseQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Except the fact that that's why he was asked...
clinton morrison never lived, played or had anything to do with ireland before someone approached him with the idea of representing us. this is what i mean by 'technically eligible', a foreigner who could apply for an irish passport but would have had no intention of doing so if it wasnt for footballing reasons. legally could declare to be irish, but has no affinity to ireland. like a lot of us and the UK......
this has nothing to do with accents or celtic purity. its prostituting our national side, again.
are people seriously happy that stan is going back down the road of investing resources in hunting players ancestors as opposed to youth development? ok, the rules are there, but its a short termist, narrow view and alienates a lot of people from the side.
It's possible for a person to feel Irish but not feel the need to go and get a second passport if there's nothing wrong with the one he has ( if all he uses a passport for is travel, rather than use it to try to prove his identity / ancestral roots ). It's only when he was asked to play for Ireland that he had to get the relevant papers..........Quote:
Originally Posted by Hither green
Besides all this, I think he has done well for us overall and has put in plenty of effort and passion.
well if they feel so Irish then they should declare they are eligible to play for Ireland and not hum and haw about it.
Yeah, fair fooks to a professional footballer for playing professionally when he plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelsman
Well then that alone makes him Irish! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
How could he play for England? He doesn't and never has lived there. I know the FA rules are as lax as a Kings Cross brass but I'd find it hard them pulling this one off. By your benchmark he could be termed a 'mercenary' for changing his nationality for profitable gain. Remaining Nigerian will not help his career outside of Ireland in the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Never heard of the Jamaica angle either. Sure they would have jumped at the chance of him if he went there before us. All we offered initially was a U21 cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I agree with the former Comodores' lead singer. He's being attacked for a low IQ. In football? Mind you, I find it hard to come to terms that he didn't know his grandmother was Irish. I believe she's still alive. But there you are.
No one is happy about having to 'beg' people to play for Ireland but I believe that a lot more would be 'alientated' from the side if the team started losing. This is the question posed, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
Well as someone with dual roots, and more than a passing affinity to Spain, I can understand someone feeling that way. I don't have Spanish citizenship, but then they only hand it out to me if I renounce any other citizenships, which in the Irish case, I'm not prepared to do. The Irish government has no problem with dual nationality and nor does many other states (e.g. British, Italian, Sweden but not Germany or Spain (Hispanophone South American countries excepted)).Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelsman
As I voted for the mercenary to play, my two cents are that if he's given an Irish passport, then of course he can play for us. He hasn't and in the normal channels he has to live here two more years to apply for one. After all the sh*te about Cascarino etc., does anyone want to see the rules being bent further to accomodate someone else for the British press to beat us with?
I take the point. I’m sort of torn with Clinton Morrison because I quite like him as a player and he does always give his all for Ireland. And as 2nd gen I’m obviously in favour of the diaspora representing Ireland but there’s a big difference between a second or third generation player who feels Irish and plays for Ireland and us trying to recruit someone who perhaps doesn’t feel Irish or may not even be aware of his Irish roots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelsman
I took my 10 year old nephew to the Italy game last year. He’s obviously 3rd gen and has an Irish but also (sadly) an england shirt. I’d love him to choose to play for Ireland but not because he can (or as second choice to england) but because he feels Irish.
Yes shame they don't all do it, including some of those born and bred in Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I totally agree, and nearly put that in myself. However, that doesn't alter the fact that he shouldn't have been playing in the first place imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hither green
Lopez, to answer some of the points, a kid living in dublin has more right to wear the green than clinton morrison in my eyes.
the jamacan angle is correct, they were after him, and remember the reggae boys thing was in full swing.
i think you hit on something inadvertantly. should we as a nation hand over passports just so people can play, while simultaniously deporting irish born kids?
The Irish people, for better or worse, voted for a Ius Sanguinnis law. Your views, forgive me if I'm wrong, were that you were against it. I was for it (although I had no vote). To me the place you were born is immaterial to your nationality, because if I thought (obvioulsy)that I'd be on Loyalengland.com, not here. Emeka Onwubiko has not been threatened with deportation. In fact, again correct me if I'm wrong, he'll get Irish citizenship should he desire in two years time (less no doubt if the FAI have a pow wow with the Justice Department). I think five years continual residence is not unreasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
And so this is the fault line here. Those that believe it's where you were born, or grow up, that determines one's nationality or what your parents (and their parents) are. Now I doubt that was foremost in the minds of people who voted for a change in the citizenship law (more like too many black people on their streets), but I think the founding fathers of the state certainly took it into account when they saw how much money was raised abroad (particuarly the US) in order to pay for both the arms and the public relations excersise in forming what is today the Republic of Ireland.
I remember in Paul Rowan's book, 'The Team That Jack Built,' a sneering official at the passport office complaining about South Africans claiming Irish citizenship to work in the EU. The person even brought up their religion (mainly Protestants :confused: ) as proof to them being racist aswell. She then rambled on about them putting nothing into the country. Written in 1994, Rowan failed to ask her the question of what would happen if everyone entitled to an Irish passport turned up in Dublin to 'put something into the country?'
thats just typical of teh sneering oficialdom of the passport office....
LOL or is it the thoughts of one random person. BTW there's never been a woman in a position of power within the passport office. Maybe the author made it up...
I heard he was going for the bobsleigh team but John Candy ("Irv") told him they only needed four.....:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
You know you've got a point. I mean I've never while following Ireland had or never heard of anyone having somebody come up to them and ask something like 'why aren't you at Wembley' . :rolleyes: As counter-arguments go, the 'author made it up' line is one of the most childish I've ever heard. Statler must be missing you on the balcony. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
The Team That Jack Built: Chapter 13: Page 183. Marie Byrne of the consular section of the Department of Foreign Affairs [no off the record discussion here].
'Marie is being driven demented at the moment by all those looking for an Irish passport. Every time there's some more violence in South Africa, she and her colleagues groan at the thought of a fresh round of white, middle-class potential refugees ringing through with their enquiries about how to get Irish citizenship. The chicken run, they call it over there in South Africa. And they're quite brazen about it - some of them will even try to order you about. They'll tell you to your face that they've no interest in living in Ireland [Thank f*ck: There's no jobs] or even visiting Ireland. They just want a passport because it's the easiest one to get and it means they can live and work anywhere in the European Community [That's a relief!]
The only thing they're interested in concerning Ireland is will I be conscripted if Ireland goes to war? [why would they ask this if they don't intend going to Ireland? :confused: ] Nor does it seem to bother the South African that their forebears were mostly of the Unionist persuasion who would roll in their graves if they realised their names were being used to sunggle up to the Fenians.'
Any chance of a link to Clinton's own Chicken Run story with the Jamaicans? Wouldn't want to think you're making it up either.
I know that lady. She never worked in the passport office. As my gypsy loving friends would say FACT!
Well tell her to sue Rowan for libel then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
is this the same book that quotes nell macafferty ad infinitum for the "fans" perspective? ****e journalist and ****e book.
Eight pages with some significant nuggets of crap: '...The English were getting harrassed everywhere [in Italy 1990], God Love them, with their Union Jacks. They were hounded, frightened, ashamed. We'd ostentatiously give them our Tricolours so that they could put them over their shoulders and get away from the hassle...' :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by klein4
It's also the book that exposed the reasons why the FAI Council were eager to play in Poland every year in the seventies. Hope that's b*llocks aswell and they're really a faithfull bunch of intelligent people? :D
just my opinion... anyone who voted for "Not playing that mercenary and not qualifying for the World cup " is effectively saying they wish we had not gone to Euro 88 or Italia 90...
No they aren't. Most of us would support Ireland no matter what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Legend
NO they're saying we wish we had've had a team that were proud to be Irish. Or even a team where everyone called themselves IrishQuote:
Originally Posted by The Legend