Is there a timeline for when this 3rd tier is expected to be in place? Are we looking at 2026, 2027 or further beyond?
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Is there a timeline for when this 3rd tier is expected to be in place? Are we looking at 2026, 2027 or further beyond?
Only club in Limerick who are ambitious enough to apply would be Aisling Annacotty and maybe Newcastle West Town, but I doubt the latter will.
Fairview Rangers have two stands making up an impressive ground but, like a lot of clubs, would rather be a big fish in a small pond.
I would hope that one or both of Salthill Devon and Mervue utd apply. It would give an opportunity to local Galway players to develop and those older players of reasonable ability to play for a team near them. In terms of support, I wonder what the target the FAI have, would 250-300 be sufficient?
Good point made by Legentz above, that local rivalries can suit certain regions, clusters of clubs is a feature of many leagues. Cork Celtic/Hibs games I am sure where big draws, maybe Cobh going into private owners may bring back the big derby games down there.
7000 people live in or around NCW, and it's the county town, with a straight, wide, main road all the way to Limerick, where it's just 30 minutes away. You would think surely at some future point they'd give it a go. They must have had a horrendous time in the LOI in the 80's to have never tried again, but the LOI was beyond puerile amateurishness in those days, and the town must be three times bigger now also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
I read that they had planned on returning to the league but it never happened for whatever reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorribsideSteve
Hypothetical, but if you had a team like Newcastle representing West Limerick you would be drawing from a strong enough playing pool in the region. Lot of players going into the city for the "expenses" might just stay.
I don't think it will happen just yet but I would say they would be more forward thinking than the "bigger" clubs in the city and county.
Established clubs can probably join the National League and build their academy structures later. Any new club being formed could do the same but they are possibly better off building through the youth leagues. It'll be very left field for a Meath FC to arrive in the National League. Maybe people might get it. Mayo FC, Klub Kildare and CK United have been getting established through the academy leagues. Not so left field that they would look to join the National League.
I’d imagine limerick fc will apply for new league. Seems to be a bit of unrest also with treaty and their fans at the moment
Thats interesting. Considering the two clubs dont get on where will Limerick FC play?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crgalway
Understatement of the year ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
Limerick Football Club don't even play in Limerick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
They got the boot from UL and Hogan Park and play their underage games in Charleville, Co. Cork.
Which is hilarious because Kilkenny United got removed from the WNL for not training in Kilkenny, amongst other spurious reasons.
Anyone know of teams interested in the new third tier, I heard several MSL teams are considering their options. UCC have the facilities and sports structure in place. I think that a number of the Third level/Universities are showing an interest. The option of scholarships are a great attraction to players.
Can't see why many universities would be interested when it's outside the college year.
Would love UCC to be in the league, if for no other reason than they've had some great-looking sports shirts over the years with the skull and cross-bones on :DQuote:
Originally Posted by nr637
If its a scholarship model then you could have players available outside the academic year. Healthcare courses often run over a 12 month academic year so maybe as part of the course/scholarship you dont have to use the traditional college calender.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I'd be surprised if any HEI entered it. Too much scrutiny on finances after dodgy property deals in UL, and UCC and TU Dublin running large deficits. The final bill for creating the TU sector hasn't come in yet and I'd be suprised if only TU Dublin was in debt. There'd be war with the unions if half a million was set aside to enter a team while classes of students paying anything up to 15k pa (more in some cases) are being taught by non-tenured (and never likely to be) lecturers paid by the hour.
Out of interest, Nesta, do you have any idea what a scholarship might be worth? My (limited) knowledge of the model would see fee waivers and access to coaching and facilities as the HEI's major financial input, but not necessarily payments to athletes.
I'm sure there's many different levels of scholarship per school but for one example, just before Treaty United entered the league, my sister was on a scholarship in LIT (now TUS) to play for their women's team managed by Dominic Foley at the time, for her it was basically no fees for 4 years and access to training/coaching and all that, not sure there was anything on top for accommodation etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Well UCD haven't done so badly outside the college year over the years! :embarrassed:Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Pretty much my own experience with students on scholarships. Fairly minimal stuff for anybody already eligible for a Susi grant - just the coaching and facilities. Campus accommodation would be very desirable, but for a squad of 18 that's the guts of 180k in foregone revenue. Say half that amount again in waived fees - you're looking at a 270k commitment before a ball is kicked. More if the fee waivers include postgrads or international students.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
True, but they were already in the system so unless they withdrew the choice was made for them. Also taught and research postgrads are year-round students so they'd be available. (Not that I can think of anyone doing a four-year PhD while playing for UCD.)Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
Sami Belhout played in the Europa League while doing one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Only example I can think of offhand though.
Evan Osam or Josh Collins maybe? I know football wise they played for UCD for 6 and 5 seasons respectivelyQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Don't think so. Osam just has a physiotherapy degree I think (per his clinic's site anyway). Collins has a Master's per LinkedIn.
Im not sure if any use EG as I'm well out of the loop but maybe still is something of a guide. Diferent local authorities and (private) scholarship all differed. It differs for sports and institutions too but ball park in olden days (mid noughties) when councils paid educational grants and scholarships needed to be declared - GAA scholarships were graded up to €8k, county level players getting most (top players had fringe academic benefits ie passed even with non submissions/attendance so could be on a scholarship but lose fees grant - was messy), finances allocated for the womens game were often partly allocated so mens funding could be added to so wasnt always a straight forward answer or formally done/declared. Funding tended to be from institutes' own budget and provided by Croke Park + wealthy county boards, so a county player from Louth in the DCU Sigerson Cup team could be on less than a Meath player or Dub if on anything at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Soccer was €3k average, much less schoarships available and would differ with the highly coveted elite places at UCD. Local funding generally, Cooperation Ireland for border regions, I dont recall much FAI input. Rugby was expenses level stuff but they provided the most proper coachees/dprovinical development officers. Fees were not generally waived or paid out of or by scholarship when that money could still be transferred from one govt entity to another eg Carlow IT wouldnt have waived fees for a chap that would get a grant from LouthCoCo. If the student wasnt getting a grant then fees would be part of the scholarship or waived. There was some free accomadation involved but rent wasnt the issue it is now.
Current figures are probably much higher but as are costs. Id say they are run better, no rigging passing moudles having not spent a day in class, budgets properly accounted for and allocated as intended. SUSI is better set up to deal with fee waivers v fees grants etc. Im not sure thaere are any soccer scholarships bar UCD, maybe some local schemes. Rugby has made most impact imo, expenses + providing coaches seemed to hit the balance where significant scholarships from GAA well lads were banjaxing themselves with drink and not keeping up the academics but this is properly tracked now.
Not sure its that ramble is any use bar an idea of what it was like and that its been tidied up. Id love to see Rovers setup for their academy, curriculum, academic/training balance, them knowing the scholarship options inside out or keeping players away from scholarships, on theor own books but lettig the kids get to uni too. Only way forward to full talent development imo and need replicating by clubs in conjunctions with schools and colleges/TUs.
Interestingly DkIT hasNT merged with other ITs to form a TU, they have a memorandum of understanding with NUI Maynooth and that seems to be the route taken to get University status - whether as a campus of Maynooth or whether a new name will be put un the merged institution - NUI Dundalk....
Either they could field a team in Summer football after the change was made, or they couldn't. The fact that they continued in the league both then and ever since suggests that it wasn't really an issue for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Isn't that because DkIT was the odd one out - with no obvious potential partner?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
More complicated than that, EYG, and too much to go into without dragging this off-topic. The early running was for a BMW TU but it didn't get traction for a host of reasons.
It was hard enough to merge ITs into TUs, but merging a 'traditional' university with an IT will be an achievement up there with splitting the atom! Different staff contracts, pay scales and titles; TUI in DKIT, IFUT in MU; the percentage of PhD qualified staff in DkIT below the requirement for merger with another IT, never mind a university where a lecturer without a PhD is a rarity. The new DkIT president is a savvy operator, but any merger will be a take-over by MU - there certainly won't be a Maynooth Technological University!
I prefer a takeover and become part of a traditional university rather than a TU. Cant really see NUI Maynnooth Dundalk Campus title, just sounds fussy. NUIMD? It will take serious time to meet academic staffing minimums, + number of research progrmmes never mind the admin kind of alignment of payscales, job titles. In time! and could be the move of the old ITs in to the University sector rather than TU, as little like St Pats in to DCU.
Done right, the TU sector has an awful lot to offer and does a lot of stuff better than the traditional universities. MU-DkIT is an intersting space to watch, and I don't want to be too mischievious by suggesting that all three TU Dublin campuses are closer to DkIT than MU is!
Anyway, back on topic. Would any team from Maynooth have ambitions to enter a national league - a town club or the university? I know it's not everything but the population base is there. Maybe the pontifical university is holding out for the priests' over 75 league!
Dunooth Uni? University of Maydalk?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
I'll get my coat...
In a widly speculative way, a propper football scholarship at DkIT (preferably with Maynooth), and a sde that playes in a senior regional league system is something that Dundalk FC should not miss out on with a direct of affiliate role that can be used as a B team and senior player development between U19 and 1st team. Conflict of interests could be ironed out with some creative thinking.
Its is off topic but still interesting, is another TU needed in whatever form in Dundalk, duplication of courses with Dublin counterparts. A university campus of NUIM can take pressure off rent issues for students and reduce commute impact in the North East/Dublin, as much due to people heading north during the peak commute south to Dublin and visa versa, some of the benfits of the TU sector could be kept for students that need that pathway. A University campus would also attract more interest from N.I. opening up H.E. partnership opportunities cross border that can access significant funding. Major potential in a competative sector that can be unique rather than regional duplication. Additional access to funding could lead to campus development like dusting off the DkIT plans for a stadium, all ancilliary infrastructure exists including TV studios, parking, catering, off M1 etc and Oriel Park + environs are fine for womens and underage pitch capacity. Joined up thinking rather than piecemeal duplication. Even LouthCoCo might want a piece of the action with a heavy hitter of the university sector. One can dream but it does tick an awful lot of boxes, from community development, Higher Ed, climate action and sporting infrastructure, for reasonable financial outlay not all out of the public purse!
The new proposed 3rd Tier has really created plenty of conversation within clubs across the country. Now with the move to Summer soccer being implemented, many progressive clubs will really have to consider their future in regards to their development plans. I am really excited to see how the structure of this new National League advances and what clubs apply!
It's a really exciting time for domestic football and fans not only for the Airtricity League in 2025!
I think the sensible thing to do, while supporting the LOI, is not to get your hopes up or get too excited about anything the FAI says
In this regard I dont think a major fail will be due to the FAI and more with resistance from the junior game to come to heel. If it does happen and that powerbase has it's will broken then we could see almost an expotential progress of change across the game.
But if there's no prizemoney worth the risk for the junior clubs to move then it's the FAI's fault
Is there any prizemoney of significance now?
No, so if it's less than the 1st Division, what chance is there?
Sensible advice. I would just say from my point of view anyway that managing to get the summer football proposal passed with a majority vote was a major achievement by the FAI. I would say my belief in the FAI has gone from none to some in the past couple months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
I expect this additional tier to take at least an additional year from the current proposed start date but if we have an aligned calendar and some semblance of an actual pyramid by 2030 I would say that it is a job OK done.
So something will be better than the current status quo! Id expect prizemoney to be announced but it wont be massive considering its sh1t for Premier winners. These things will only happen in stages. As a starting point, a regionalised tier III, will have more prestige with winning potentially giving access to the highest level of the game. Bring regioalised is unlikely to add to travel costs and any additiona costs a club takes on eg signing players on any more than expenses or what they do now will be of their own doing and not a necessity. Absolutely the fiancial carrot will ease the way, improve interest but there is more to it than just money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
Doing it in stages? The prizemoney is terrible and there's only two divisions. Took them 60 years to add the second tier. How people defend the association is beyond me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Being regionalised won't reduce costs too much. You won't have Donegal teams playing Cork teams but a Mayo team playing in Louth would still be paying close to €1k for a bus.
When it comes to "fault", it shouldn't be an either/or. Rather it should be for both the FAI to create the right environment and the clubs then to seize the opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
Re the former, I don't see how this proposal is fit for purpose, since it is both too big a step-up for the average Intermediate club to envisage; while for those clubs who do get admitted, the step-up from there to the First Division is likely to great as well. In that sense, it can hardly be called a pyramid, esp if half the teams (more?) may need to be LOI Reserve teams.
And as for the latter, if clubs have to rely on prize money to sustain a place at this level, then that won't work, either. For such money could only come from sponsorship (can't see that ever amounting to anything at that level) or from the FAI. And with the FAI struggling to provide decent prize money for the top two tiers, itself insufficient, how are they going to find extra for up to 20 new teams?
Besides, as a matter of principle, clubs shouldn't have to rely on prize money (i.e. a handout) to exist, even if it was available. For in the end, if a club is to be sustainable beyond purely amateur level, it has to be able to raise revenue from its own resources. Obviously the basic should be gate money, which means it must be grounded in its community/catchment area in order to generate support at an appropriate level. Following on from this it means having a stadium fit to be able to charge a reasonable amount (as well as offering a higher standard of football, obviously).
So that from that basis, the club can then hope to raise matchday revenue from bars and restaurants etc, plus maybe even non-matchday revenues from lotteries, social club, commercial and events etc. This in turn can lead to further revenue from sponsorship and local businesses as they wish to be associated with a thriving local club etc.
Of course, all of this takes enormous time and effort over years, even decades, from volunteers and community members, with the point being that you start this process incrementally from the ground up, rather than seeking to build from the top down (i.e. a 3rd tier).
Which is where the FAI comes back in, by offering a long term vision and format, with suitable support and resources, to encourage the most ambitious clubs with the most potential to set out on the long journey.
EDIT: One further element I ommitted to mention is that ambitious local clubs can also often hope to attract a wealthy benefactor, keen to suppport his/her local club. But that can only happen if they can see genuine potential for the club to progress, rather than it being a mere money pit. Which again comes back to vision, format and process from the FAI.
Defend the association? Where pray tell? My point on regionalising, will there be additional costs to particpate eg travel. Are you an old junior blazer that is reluctanly realising their new place in the football system?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett