Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
is 12 am on a sunday really primetime tv wise??? :confused:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
is 12 am on a sunday really primetime tv wise??? :confused:
My opinion FWIW,
It's not so much the prices as the disdain shown to fans that is driving people to not bother. I'm quite glad the happy clappers and the bandwagon idiots are going to be gone soon, only thing is it will be like Italy with a load of half empty stad, but with roaring atmosphere. Maybe even a tackle will be allowed again and people will stop fawning over the fraud that is dim david et al.
11 o clock kick offs for sky, piped music through tannoys, e-mails telling you the team will be upset if your not there Sunday etc..will all continue til the next round of negotiations for the tv rights, then Chels, MU etc will be forced to go off and work alone. I hope they enjoy the Super lg, let the rest of the
clubs to work away. The Arse would be worse affected cos who's to say if they will even be included in that elite, even with a 60,000 seater.
Added to this, is the lack of local lads plying their trade for the clubs and breaking through into the first team, or even a rival team, has been totally diminished and the foreign lads have no need or desire to build a rapport with the fans, with one or two notable exceptions.
The trend will go full circle until we have 8 or 9 academy players in the clubs first and second teams (see Man City as an early debt ridden example Jordan, Barton, SWP, Ireland, BWP, Croft, Onohua and maybe some others all in or on the brink of making it into 1st team squad). Other teams are developing their academies and will reap the rewards if patience is shown (Boro, Villa and others)
I think the cost of going to most clubs with the exception of Chelski is acceptable. Generally between 23-28 sterling (45 euro for 70 mins seemed to get rid of fans for All Ire semi finals of hurling and football). Brum and others sometimes take the mick for away fans, but the Arsenal, man u and Pool are all decently priced at the end of the day.
It's a complex issue with so many aspects.
Most people I know who are disillusioned with football are Man United fans and Pool fans? Says it all for me really.
I'll agree that the dominant force at play is Television and the revenue it generates -but the local police forces take these games deadly seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
I'm a Leeds supporter and have been over there when Man U are coming to town. West Yorkshire Police can and do virtually close Leeds down. They "ask" pubs to close and object to the licence renewals of those that don't -hence -everyone closes. Leeds is a ghost town when Man U are due -this despite the fact the ManU supporters don't get into Leeds City Center at all. They're herded like sheep (appropriatley ;) ) onto buses and shuttled to and from Elland Road without so much as a **** stop. If Leeds were playing the West Yorkshire Constabulary Amatuer League side rather than ManU -the away team would have more support on show.
The police have found this approach to big games minimises trouble so they repeat it throughout Britain and the FA's are happy to oblige as they don't want to run the risk of trouble and the bad press it brings either.
As to that actual risk of trouble -though neither Liverpool nor ManU are the worst offenders -these two are known, for example, to chant highly provocative stuff at each other (Munich related crap from the 'pool, Hillsborough referencing "96 more" type bile from the mancs) and it's not hard to imagine this stuff getting out of hand if the police didn't take such a keen interest in making sure these games get on and over as early as possible.
I always think its funny the way the media write about the over-hyped Premiership & lack of coverage for the rest of Uk football but then devote almost their entire football section to the Premiership.
:eek:
It's not that odd, how much time and space is given by the big papers to Division 1 in Spain (can't think of it's name off the top of my head) or Serie B in Italy, or Ligue 2 in France, etc?? The top teams have the most fans, so they'll be more likely to buy the paper that has the most stories which affect their team (either match reviews/player interviews/match previews/etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
It's hardly the journalists fault they can't write more about the lower leagues, if they are ordered to write about Barcelona/AC Milan/Ajax/Chelsea to sell more papers
Does that mean that chants are now "banned"? Yeah, the ko time is really going to stop fans chanting at each other. :rolleyes: Sure, if they don't want to control crowds, why don't they just go the whole way, and just cancel the games altogether?? Then they could eliminate all risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
As I said before, having early ko times ruins the atmosphere, and inconveniences people, players, officials, and fans. As for the troublemakers, they should be prevented from going to the games in the first place. You don't see flashpoint games with 12pm ko's in Belgium, Holland, Italy, or Spain, when sometimes the police have to deal with running battles, inside and around the stadium every time, the clubs meet.
Even if that is the case, how do the UKP explain why Merseyside derbies should ko at 12.30pm, when both sets of fans are from the same families, and there is Zero trouble at the games?? :confused:
As usual, the majority law-abiding fans suffer, because of the actions of a few. :(
Because of the trouble. There's trouble, or attempts to cause trouble at every United v Liverpool game (and remember the "battle bus" before you attempt to pin it all on United).Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
It's nothing to do with TV, as sky would prefer a 4pm kick off as they get bigger audiences...
From manchesteronline.co.uk
Quote:
TICKET prices are up and crowds are down.
The Barclays Premiership is under the spotlight for the wrong reasons after a weekend which saw fans stay away from top-flight games in their droves.
It has never been so easy to find a ticket for a Premiership game, but that is not good news for the clubs, particularly the likes of Sunderland, Aston Villa, Wigan and Blackburn whose home matches were notable for seats left unfilled at the weekend.
The Stadium of Light was not even two-thirds full for the visit of West Brom, and attendances on Wearside are markedly down - almost by 10,000 - on the crowds which flocked there the last time Sunderland were in the elite.
Villa have spent big on players recently, shelling out £10million on Milan Baros and Wilfred Bouma, but there were almost 9,000 seats empty for the home game against Tottenham.
Wigan owner Dave Whelan had expressed hope of filling the JJB Stadium in his club's first Premiership season, but 16,641 people in a venue which holds 25,000 for the visit of Middlesbrough suggests otherwise.
Blackburn's position is alarming. The 1995 champions offer some of the cheapest tickets in the division but their crowd of 20,725 for yesterday's visit of Newcastle was made more alarming given the visitors brought a huge following.
The Ewood Park capacity is 31,367, yet their support has fallen away since the heyday of Jack Walker, Kenny Dalglish and Alan Shearer.
Clubs have been criticised for raising prices above the level of inflation, and prices on the continent are far more affordable.
The cheapest ticket at Chelsea is £48, and football in the capital is particularly expensive, but across the country prices have shot up.
In the Championship, it can cost up to £45 to watch Leeds, while League One side Gillingham offer top-priced £37 tickets.
Compare that to mainland Europe and the difference is alarming.
To stand at Bayern Munich costs a bargain £8, as do limited places at Ajax, while seats at French champions Lyon go for as little as £14.
The roaming fan can watch Juventus for £25 or Barcelona for £30, less than it costs for a good view and comfortable seat at the Priestfield Stadium.
Most of my mates aren't dissillusioned anymore - they're watching FC, no jesters hats or sky TV.... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifford
Good for them, they'll enjoy the craic there I imagine. Good crowds and banter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Maybe whiskey nose wants to join the easy option of F CUM as well at this stage...
'FERGIE BANS MUTV'
SIR ALEX FERGUSON is refusing to speak to Manchester United's TV station MUTV after one of their presenters criticised his tactics and formation.
Fergie took exception to comments made by presenter Paul Anthony after United's 0-0 Champions League draw with Villarreal last week and has snubbed the station since.
The United boss refused to speak to the channel before or after the weekend clash at Liverpool in protest at the remarks and the negative tone of the post-match show.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifford
how?
i thought this team was set up by the so called utd fans that turned there back on there team !!
so all you will have there is a bunch of whinging manc tw ats sounds like great craic allright
as for the bubble bursting , they need to sort it out now before it goes down the road of europeen football , who wants to watch italian footy no one not even the italians !! :D
What should happen is this:
Players earn more money now than ever and ticket prices have risen therefore we should get more entertainment on the pitch,50 minutes each half instead of 45.
1 point for a 0/0 draw
2 points for a score draw
3 points for a win by 1 goal
4 points for a win by 2 goals
5 points for a win by 5 goals.
This would encourage more attacking play and not allow teams like Chelsea to sit back and defend a 1 goal lead.Also it could make the season last longer for alot of teams.
Sounds good except I'd drop the pts by 1 for each category and have no points for a 0-0 or possibly -1 if you don't score. The emphasis must be put on winning and scoring goals in the process.
Turning their back on the premiership, the money obsessed players and the numpties that have started going to all grounds since the early 90's.Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
They've actually made the hard choice, rather than blindly handing over more and more money every season for poor football, in sanitised stadiums, to make a few individuals rich.
Hardly expect a member of the Klan to agree though, probably to busy bumming his Red "brothers" across the park....
Where's the trouble?? There has been no trouble at that game for as long as I can remember. There have been occasional incidents outside grounds and elsewhere, but that's not football's problem, if people want to scrap, they will. 12pm ko's won't stop them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I was at that game and any criticism made towards the team was dead right. United were terrible! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Clifford
If United and Liverpools firms fight nothing to do with the match at all, obviously :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
There hasn't been much because of the policing, which is helped by early kick offs. No pubs, not where to congregate and less likely to be people being encouraged by dutch courage.
Have you ever been to a United v Liverpool game? Sure as hell haven't been in the city centre's if you think an early kick off can't be justified...
We'll see how far that policy gets, when 24-hour drinking legislation comes into force in the UK later this year. People will be able to drink whenever they like, so early match ko's will be no deterrent to trouble. Or are you suggesting that hooligans only scrap at certain times of the day?? :confused:Quote:
There hasn't been much because of the policing, which is helped by early kick offs. No pubs, not where to congregate and less likely to be people being encouraged by dutch courage.
Have you ever been to a United v Liverpool game? Sure as hell haven't been in the city centre's if you think an early kick off can't be justified.
violence around grounds is rampant in england, sky dont report it as it would damage their product. believe me the hooliganism is nearly as bad as everQuote:
Originally Posted by mypost
sticking your head in the sand now mypost. the trouble is real and the threat of it getting worse is very real.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
had just typed a reply to D12s points idea when feckin machine crashed as I tried to post. So in one sentence -why not just make the goals a wee bit bigger?
varying points for higher scores is a bit american for my liking. Rarity of goals by and large good thing. Shay Given not short. :D
from www.football365.com
Quote:
Premier League to discuss crowd falls
Tuesday September 20 2005
Premier League chiefs are to study whether rising ticket prices and television
coverage have contributed to an apparent slump in top-flight attendances at
a special meeting next month.
The league's attendance working group, which is headed by chief executive
Richard Scudamore, will deal with the concerns of several club chairmen who
are seeing a dwindling number of fans coming through the turnstiles.
Blackburn chairman John Williams, a member of the working group, saw just
20,725 fans turn up for Sunday's home match with Newcastle, 9,000 fewer
than last season.
Williams told PA Sport: "We in the Premier League have had 10 great years, a
fantastic success story, but we are certainly going through the doldrums
now.
"We have to do something now because by the time you see the bandwagon
it's too late.
"Richard Scudamore is going to reconstitute the working group and it's time to
sit down and go through a whole plethora of things that might be done.
"The wheels have not come off but the product does need a good service -
it needs tweaking rather than major surgery.''
Williams believes a combination of factors including saturation television
coverage, tickets prices, negative tactics and predictable results are behind
the fall in attendances.
Sports minister Richard Caborn said he too was concerned by the fall in
numbers.
Caborn told PA Sport: "I'm pleased the Premier League have taken this
initiative, and the working party are going to have to look at whether clubs
are pricing fans out of going matches.
"One also has to question how much football there is on television and
whether it's undermining attendances. I believe there is clear evidence that is
the case.''
Caborn added that football now had greater competition for fans from other
sports, particularly in the first two months of the season from cricket and
both rugby codes.
The working party will report any proposals to the next meeting of Premier
League chairmen in November.
The Premier League remain bullish about their product however and point out
that there were worries about attendances at this point last season but that
overall the clubs operated at a 94.2% occupancy rate compared to 93.7% in
the 2002-03 season, and considerably higher than in Spain and Germany
despite prices in those countries being significantly lower.
A spokesman said: "It's very early in the season to take any sort of
meaningful analysis from these statistics.''
Oh come on!! I think they are ignoring the obvious problem here. I saw it on Sky News the other day. It's £26.40 (roughly €45) to get an adult and child into a Real Madrid match, it's £21.40 (€30-€35) to get an adult and child into AS Roma and £12.40 (€20) to get an adult and child into Bayern. Yet it's £90 (€130-€140) to get the same deal at Chelsea.
As a side, I think the last two years have being the best the EL has produced in a long time and alot of that is due to summer soccer and the declining attraction of the EPL as well as the success of Shels and Cork in europe. Such success makes people who would not bother about Irish soccer stand up and take notice.
As for the premiership, i think the bubble has burst which was inevitable, it happened in italy a few years ago, look at the state of some of their 'top' clubs eg lazio, parma. The wages the players are being paid are unsustainable and it would be no harm if these dropped down to a more realisitic level. Also the emergence of Abrahamovic has meant that chelsea are now in a league of their own and can afford to play in front of smaller crowds each week, while a large portion of the league are out there to survive in the league, knowing otherwise financial ruin awaits. IMO this is the singlest biggest factor for the negative football throughout the league. WBA went to Chelsea a few wks back and fielded a weakened team to prepare for their BIG game against Birmingham at the wkd, says alot really!
Football needs to be given back to the fans over there, doubt it will happen.
I also think the saturation of european games is diminishing the entertainment of the CL and the Uefa cup as well, the knockout stages of the CL are well worth watching but the group games Im not so sure.
the group games are still a spectacular mass tv appeal - cross continent - the bookies are taking record amounts on CL trading which has bypassed individual leagues - interest is massive and the CL format at present is ideal for all concerned
[QUOTE=elroy]
Also the emergence of Abrahamovic has meant that chelsea are now in a league of their own and can afford to play in front of smaller crowds each week, while a large portion of the league are out there to survive in the league, knowing otherwise financial ruin awaits. IMO this is the singlest biggest factor for the negative football throughout the league. WBA went to Chelsea a few wks back and fielded a weakened team to prepare for their BIG game against Birmingham at the wkd, says alot really!
Football needs to be given back to the fans over there, doubt it will happen.
QUOTE]
this is very true , befroe he came along the money was drying up wages and transfer fee's were on the way down , but chelsea have made it impossible to compete with soo every club will have to have a rich owner to buy the "best " and we'll be left with a bunch of over paid pansy's too affraid to tackle in case they hurt there earning potential !!.
but its still by far the best league there was a players vote recently there were asked to vote for the top 55 players 19 of which play in the prem , thats about 35 % of the worlds best players play in the prem L
Started by Jack Walker and Blackburn, lets not forget, in the UK at least. (There's many examples on the continent - Parma and Monaco the main examples).Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
what do you mean by Monaco???
they are not bankrolled by anyone - they have massive debts in fact - at the time of their champions league run they did it on a shoestring with loan players cause they couldn't buy anyone
Well at least Jack Walker was from Blackburn and supported his hometown team all his life.This russian has so much money that his really playing football fantasy in real life.Not worried about the game in england,only concerned about Cork City and the Eircom league.
what about the national side ? who allmost all play in the prem league .Quote:
Originally Posted by aIr BaNd!
im allways amased at people ( not you ) on this forum that delight in the decline of the prem league or english football on a whole , do they honestly think players like keane and duff would be as good if they had stayed in ireland ?
Did Rovers not establish the Jack Walker Trust whereby all money contributed by him to the club would be repaid?Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Chelsea are in a situation where they would collapse if it weren't for the deep pockets of the red one. They're a long way off being financially stable.
It's people like you who amaze me for thinking that the English leagues are the only ones open to Irish players. Some may argue that our players have never developed into top class players because they've been restricted by the limitations of British coaching techniques.Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
its not my opinion its fact , look at the national team and look where they play , ive never heard of a youngster picked up by a spanish or italian side so more or less it is the only league open to them bar the few kids in scotland .Quote:
Originally Posted by Peadar
so if it was nt for english soccer they would be playing in ireland they would never have developed into the players they are now . imagine if we had to pick a team from the eircom league, jokes of players like crowe would get call ups !!!
How are attendances in the lower leagues in England doing? Will the Premiership ever introduce percentage based total wage bill cap?
We'd have less players going abroad but the better players would be picked up by the bigger and better clubs in Europe. If you believe all that you've written there then I fear for you. I really do.Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
For all the players who leave Ireland to play football in England, we have no more than 3 at the moment who are International quality. Don't fool yourself into thinking that Roy Keane, Damien Duff and Shay Given wouldn't have made it in Europe. They owe little or nothing to English football.
Anto1208.
Not knocking english football,just stating a few facts thats all.Total greed has taken over english football and the real supporters are being squeezed out of the game.People in lreland don't see that as they are blinkered by sky sports/media saturation coverage of english premiership.
The real football fans in english have taken action by staying away from games.People wake up and see that rich are getting richer and the ordinary supporters is a past identity of yesterday.Just look at what clubs premiership clubs are charging in admission prices to games.english premiership now only a boring one horse race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peadar
its this constant brit bashing again !!they owe nothing to english football are you serious? they owe everything ,all these players were picked up by english clubs trained and developed . i would agree with you if even one italian spanish german etc club had one irish kid on there books at the moment , fact is they dont see ireland as being able to produce players for them , thats why they dont sign any irish kids .
if forest or an other english club hadnt taken a chance with keane chances are he'd still be in cork
true for some clubs but not all , my season ticket costs 450 so it works out at under £25 per game thats nothing most of ye will think nothing of spending £25 on booze at the weekend if not double that amount .but we are one of the best priced and there for best supported teams ( our attendences are on the up ) i can understand why chelsea fans are staying away with things like full price kids and dissabled tickets .Quote:
Originally Posted by aIr BaNd!
Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208
in keanes case i think you are wrong - he demonstrated the will to move on up to the highest possible level even before he had secured a move to an english team - he was on some old fai excellecnce course when he was a kid - he was the youngest on it and was homesick - i remmeber them goin on about it in a documentary on him once
facts are keane was a talent - if it wasnt forest it would have been someone else - the cream always rises to the top
i take your point it wouldnt have been a continental club that signed him tho - as they have zero links with the irish youth scene - and for historical reasons no need to have any links with it
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Barcelona have an Irish kid on their books. Or at least they had in the very recent past.Quote:
Originally Posted by anto1208