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But wherever they are sending it won't be spent on American problems if its being sent abroad. Money or aid or weaponry by definition, is unavailable to American citizens if its sent to Ukraine or Israel or Ballyhaunis itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
So what is people's read on here of the IDF massed troops delay on the edge of Gaza which is now into week three ?
They will know who / where and how etc, this isn't something they wouldn't have planned for. They can pound the place from the air any old day, they know it at best inconveniences Hamas temporarily only. They have never had more reason, and backing to do as they said they would, but thus far they haven't gone in. I don't think its the hostages because the air strikes endanger those anyway. I see today settlements near Lebanon have been told to evacuate, so are they worried or have they been threatened with a regional backlash & are having to rethink ? Is it Western / EU arm around the shoulder support depending on restraint ?
I saw an Israeli official on BBC just now use the phrase, if and when in relation to the ground offensive.
I think it will still happen, I just wonder if it will be on the scale and duration they would have initially liked it to be & I definitely didn't think over two weeks later it would still be pending.
A slightly different Israel story in the papers today - an Israeli software company in Dublin have fired an Irish employee for making anti-Israel comments on social media. Apparently it generated a backlash from Israeli staff and customers and wasn't seen as inclusive (but of course no mention of Palestinians).
But the company's internal communications was full of political (ie pro-Israel) messages apparently, and even tips from an Israeli advertising agency for staff to tailor their own pro-Israel social media messages. It's a really worrying insight into the cult-like Israeli way of thinking.
Varadkar is encouraging the employee to sue for unfair dismissal. Hopefully the employee realises she's better away from that place. This looks like a story that has legs in it though.
They're having a right good tilt at UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres today also, they want him gone too. So what chance would that employee have stood. His speech the one they want him to fall on his sword for, said the events of October 7th although unjustifiable in any way, did not happen in a vacuum.
Pretty accurate, one might have thought but no. Not to Israel.
I think that's shameful. When they reduce the dialogue to supporting them unequivocably - to the point of sycophancy - or they'll try to get you fired, that should be resisted on principle.
The Israeli government is extremely aggressive in their words and actions, it clearly rubs off on their people.
You seek to condemn the oppressed for resisting their genocidal destruction?Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
There is never peace in the occupied Palestine. Their people face daily violence, death and humiliation.
Hamas should ‘go to Ireland or deserts’ and using nuclear bomb on Gaza an option, says Israel minister:
https://www.irishtimes.com/world/mid...rael-minister/Quote:
An Israeli minister has said Hamas should ‘go to Ireland or the deserts’ and that dropping a nuclear bomb on Gaza is an option, as the Israel-Hamas war enters its fifth week.
Heritage minister Amichai Eliyahu of the Otzma Yehudit party is quoted by the Times of Israel as saying in an interview that the Palestinian people “can go to Ireland or deserts, the monsters in Gaza should find a solution by themselves”, adding that those who wave a Palestinian or Hamas flag “shouldn’t continue living on the face of the earth”.
It quotes him saying that dropping a nuclear bomb on the Gaza Strip “is one of the possibilities”, and that humanitarian aid to the population should be restricted, saying “we wouldn’t hand the Nazis humanitarian aid. There is no such thing as uninvolved civilians in Gaza
Pretty obvious that Israel would very easily Nuke all of its enemies if it felt threatened enough.
Now in this charming echo of our history, is Ireland Hell or Connacht?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
And speaking of dumb verbal contributions to this horrible conflict... James McClean. Posted Sinn Fein's call for the Israeli ambassador to be removed from office and added "Kick him Out!... In fact, volley the p***k out!"... Israel's ambassador to Ireland, Dana Erlich, is a woman.
https://www.balls.ie/football/james-...lestine-576910
About a month away from it bring a year since the last post on this thread & Bidens very public early summer big push for peace ending in an overall settlement in the region has instead seen Israel blasting Beirut this weekend, because razing Gaza was obviously just a warm up. Done with largely US weapons & without bothering to give the Americans a heads up.
The, We Stand With Israel merchants all round Europe are on a different page now & looking a bit daft & Bidens administration, well has Washington ever looked weaker in its special relationship with Israel ? Seemingly not an ounce of influence over Netanyahu.
I said early on in this thread I felt the initial show of support for Israel was because the world was scared of what Israel would do next.
If you have America's backing you can do as you please.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
I don't see their endgame here. A decade or three from now, or a century, or two, or however many it takes, they're getting driven into the sea. No moral judgement there (that's another conversation), but some day the US will be weak or distracted and Israel won't have the teeth to keep the wolves from the door. You can't fight everyone forever, surely, and they're not exactly courting other outcomes.
Maybe ~ They intend to annihilate all of their enemies now ( or certainly a lot of them )Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
From the Israeli's point of view ~ Now is the time to do it.
How many Irish did Britain imprison, inter, deport, starve, execute, collude to murder ? Did it work? It just grew back more determined.
Perhaps ~ The Israeli's are going to make sure that they kill enough to put a stop to that sort of thing ~ Maybe they are just beginning ~ ~ They can do as they please as they have the backing of America.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Russia is emboldening them, IMHO. They see Putin getting away with literal murder and fancy their chances. They want a war, just like Russia, and they don't care if they drag the rest of us into it.
If Iran and its mullahs are on one side its easy enough for me to side with a democratic Israel. Can't remember the last time an Israeli suicide Bomber blew up a concert or bus.
That being said its pointless as unless they kill every last Palestinian/ Arab they are only killing x number to be replaced by the next lot.
It's as close to a no possible solution as there is. At least ourselves and the Brits when we are at it had enough in common that in the end we could live together....hard to see that ever happening in the middle east.
No harm, but this is an utterly mental opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
What's mental? I see no solution, do you? Genuinely can you see the Arabs and Israelis living happily together in the future?
I mean, they've killed what - 40k in Palestine in the last year? Another few hundred in Lebanon already?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Do you not think that's slightly more than your suicide bomber (abhorrent and all as that is)?
Thats kind of my point though its pointless as even if every one of them was a Hamas terrorist which they werent they will be replaced straight away and how much nearer is the middle east to peace.
I stand by my comment on the mad mullahs , you cant be Gay there its still punishable by death , woman have zero rights and can be married off at 13, the Iranian people are under the thumb of a bunch of fanatical nutters and no chance of getting rid of them through elections
I think if the Countries surrounding Israel were democracies peace would be possible but as long as those countries are ruled by dictat there will never be peace.
Conservative Islam is a blight on the planet, sure.
Lebanon - which Israel is now attacking - is a democracy.
Israel is a democracy and they're one of the greatest shower of *****s in the world the last 30 years or so
Ultimately the key issue is Israel bombs, slaughters and even invades at will. I don't see why you're looking to avoid that fact
I can't stand the government of Israel, I'd wee on Netanhayu if he were within reach, and Mossad has to be one of the worst "intelligence" agencies out there, but....
....jesus, the pagers and walkie talkies thing was an amazing piece of supply chain f*ckery, wasn't it?
Tbh, I'd say that blindly applying reductive positions such as 'democracy beats theocracy' without any examination of the specific context does massive amounts of harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Was Lebanon perhaps attacking Israel with rockets for the last year?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It could be said they would hardly have invaded if it wasnt for Oct 7th but on the other hand youll have people that will say October 7th happened because of A.N.Other event and it is the Israelis fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I dont think ive ever met anyone who having decided who they support has changed their mind based on any logical arguement so lets not go there.
My position is i look at how the people in the countries involved live.
The Iranian people live in a society where any attempt to change has been ruthlessly put down, where if you are gay u could be put to death , where woman have no rights.
Israel is a democracy where people live freely (including the Arabs who live there) and vote in free and fair elections.
Hence i ignore the whataboutery of who is at fault and support the side that more clearly reflects my view of the world.
It might mean that Israel is the tallest dwarf of the two or indeed the bald man who wins my vote for the comb but i just cant see myself siding with people who are so strongly agasint what i see as basic things to live by.
Doesnt mean im a cheerleader for bombing people by either side just that instinctivly i am siding with people who i can relate to on things other than war.
I do find it amusing when you see young people supporting the countries opposed to Israel while also voicing their concerns for equal rights for woman and LGBT people, although when i was young everything seemed simple to me as well. Would be highly amusing if these people decided to have a pride parade through central Tehran or indeed pretty much anywhere in the middle east, it might make them think about their support for despotic regimes.
I think I have said it before and I stand behind it still. What we are dealing with here is a massive pair of c*nts. One that doesn't use the power they wield responsibly and inflicts atrocities without repercussions, the other that does all the evil things that sbgawa listed.
So I agree with stuff like that - but you're using it to back Israel in this conflictQuote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
That's an absurd level of simplification
Israel is a terrorist state and needs to be condemned as such. It is possible to have that view while also not looking the government of Iran.
next time i need someone to better say in 10 words what ive just said in a hundred ill send you a PM :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Which one is the taller dwarf ?
i dont agree its an oversimplefication.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
What Israel is doing is wrong, while it would have been unreasonable to expect any country to have not responded to 1200 of its people being killed and raped plus taken hostage the protracted natire of the response is self defeating and ultimately pointless as they cant win, just like the Brits could never win here.
Calling Israel a terrorist state is fine if you like but the fact remains we have a lot more in common with Israel than we do with Iran or indeed most of the middleeast who hate the west and the values we believe in.
If there has to be a winner i would rather it was Israel but that is an oversimplefication as there simply wont be one it will just rumble on until the mad mullahs and dictators that rule the middle east are gone and the people are in charge ratehr than religious nutters and dictators.
I cant get past the fact that the people cheering on Iran firing missiles at Israel are supporting a country who if several friends of mine where there they would likely be in jail or killed.
The antipathy towards Israel is strongest amongst those who would be the first to throw stones at anyone who questioned our western value system.
You have enough sense to make a logical arguement and have a considered position for most of the people its just the trendy thing to do.
Bohs support Palastine...enough said :) couldnt resist that
The only way to make much progress in such conflicts ~ ~ Is, if a third strong force attacks both of them equally ~ ~ And the first two have to ally to take on this third force !Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Tis the way of humans !
Who's cheering on Iran launching missiles at Israel?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
We have very little in common with Israel - they're a murderous genocidal state where an awful lot of people approve of what the country is doing and where any criticism is conveniently dismissed as anti-Semitism without any attempt to engage in discussion.
They've more in common with Nazi Germany than us.
Though interestingly the idea that Israel has more in common with the west than the Muslims do is one of the main tropes Israel push out in their social media propaganda (came to light in the Wix scandal last year for example)
I think there's no right side in this conflict. Each (Israel on one side, Hamas and Hezbollah on the other) would happily obliterate the other to extinction. And while Hamas/Hezbollah don't have the means to follow through with it, Israel is probably still held back somewhat by not wanting to completely lose support from the US and other Western countries.
One thing to keep an eye on is public support for Israel in the US. it's always been very high, so supporting Israel helps at the booths. But lately there's a minority in favour of Israel for about the first time ever. If that keeps up, US policies may start to change.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/...tion-gaza.aspx
Do you feel you have more in common with the mad mullahs and Asad in Syria?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'm happy with my choices.
I find it impossible to find anything in common with a democracy that would indiscriminately murder tens of thousands of medics, journalists and civilians for a year straight. Let alone the apartheid, and *gestures at the last 60+ I don't know how many years*
It doesn't really matter what you think about fundamentalist Muslims, not all Arabs or Muslims are the same or hold the same beliefs for that matter, there are tons of innocent people with no say in this being murdered by a democracy that votes to do just that. Netanyahu is every bit as insane as Putin or any other tyrant you can think of throughout history. What Israel/US and any other enabler are doing is horrendous and shouldn't be allowed to happen. It will be looked upon with horror by future generations. As for young or lgbtq+ people supporting the Palestinian struggle, or any other group who you might think would hate them, you do not need to agree with someone's beliefs to think that they don't deserve to be murdered, people are capable of empathy and holding multiple positions at once.
How much do you feel you have in common with Hitler's Germany?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
I'm any event, it's not an either-or option here. You can disapprove of both.
This isn't football. Why do you have to pick a side?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
I like the people who are against blowing up children. I feel like that's safer ground than which genocidal ******* has more in common with me.