Quote:
Originally Posted by FarBeag
Looks like you could have done with a few lessons. maybe next time your in play school you can ask :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarBeag
Looks like you could have done with a few lessons. maybe next time your in play school you can ask :)
Don't know if you saw his press conference when he was talking about aQuote:
Originally Posted by kerr's tribe
move to a different club but it was quite funny, he got quite a few
laughs out of the journalist's, don't remember exactly what he said though.
now now children, keep it on topic or adam will come on and beat the sh!te out of you both..... :D ;)
Personality too, this is getting better.... :D didn't see it I'm afraid :mad: Should've got my brother to tape it on SKY :eek: fecker wouldn't prob waste a tape though :rolleyes: Anyone hear what the man said, did he mention "Julie"? heh heh :oQuote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Didn't see the match, just a rubbish commentary, but I note that whilstQuote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands
Harte was on the pitch we didn't concede (or score for that matter) a goal.
But as I said I didn't see the match so can't really draw any conclusions.
Look Jollypodger or whatever your are called.I am sorry for giving my opinion on a threat that you started but if its for specially invited guests you should have made that clear ,instead of slagging me off about the way i tried to give my opinion on a game that was played to-night.You are obviously a very insecure sad individual who is craving attention.Won't say anymore in case i regret it,so get back in you box and play with your tractor. :D
I think its more, we didn't concede when Holland went off as we went from 10 men to 11. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Agree on the smugness point. Playing the Italians now could turn out to be a masterstroke from the FAI as it exposed our weaknesses, only problem is I don't know if we can do anything about it before France.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands
Re Harte, I'd play him in front of O'Shea, but thats not saying much. Harte still has the infuriating ability to get himself at least 20 yards out of position a few times every half (I counted at least two). But again, he isn't O Shea and for that we must be thankful.
If we beat the French it will be passion and fight that does it as despite Kerrs best efforts at playing continental type football, with very few exceptions we just don't have the players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerr's tribe
I am afraid I only caught it halfway through but he seemed very relaxed
and jovial, there was quite lot a laughter from the the journalists, unfortunately I missed exactly why. They went on to ask him if he was
willing to take a pay cut (which he took quite well), can't remember what
he replied to that either :rolleyes:
My memory must be going :eek:
We need to stop playing these like fecking competitive games! Our opponents aren't, so it's completley pointless. Elliot should have gotten more time, now if there's an injury we'll be told he doesn't have the experience. Very frustrating.
A few conclusions from the match:
- Matt Holland. What does he bring to the team? I still haven't figured it out.
- Shay Given. We'd be far up a certain creek without him.
- Kevin Kilbane. Absolutely ****e one half, good the next.
- Damien Duff. Looks like the summer rest has done him well.
- Richard Dunne. There's no fooling me, he's still the same Honeymonster he used to be.
- Andy O'Brien. Sublime again. McGrath-like positioning. When Kenny quits, we're in good hands.
- John O'Shea. Better than Harte at left back and better than Holland at centre midfield.
- Andy Reid. Too many failed gallery passes and ballooned shots from distance. Fantastic talent, more discipline please.
- Clinton. Frustrating to watch, but always in the right place when it counts. The Irish Pipo Inzaghi.
Those are the main things that I will take from this match.
O'Brien has played himself into the back four.
As for O'Shea, midfield is obviously not his position, of course he looked lost. He is still well in contention for LFB. There is a need for some height at the back. Despite what some of your girlfriends might say, size does matter. There has to be at least 2 big guys at the back with Kenny, especially with having 3 midgets in midfield.
Look at Italy they have a good blend of sizes, they know you don't win games with a team full of Gattuso's.
A player has to be really really good to compensate for being small eg Gattuso. But if a player is tall then he only needs a little bit of skill. Look at Kilbane, just a hint of skill every now and then and he is on the team tearing up and down the pitch in the green shirt of Ireland. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
From the comfort of the barstool or couch?
Don't comment on what you haven't seen live...............Clint worked his ass off in a difficult formation......................................... ..... then again I;ve seen your comments on the U21's V NI :)
You mean to refer toQuote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
"Givens is a diaster.. very poor last night"
yes someone does need some IT lessons :-)
Andy Reid
Who Ate all the pies? Who ate All the pies? I think the answer is Andy Reid :D
Outplayed for most of the first half.
O'Brien has kept his place for France.
Agree Holland was very poor - Kilbane must start in central midfield if we play 4 4 2. I thought Kilbane played very well. Clinton waqs not enough but there isn't really another option. O'Shea did well at left back but was lost in midfield. Cunningham and dunne was run ragged in the first half.
Still it was only a friendly - no harm in being exposed once we get it right for France.
I'm perfectly happy with that exercise. We played really well for 60 minutes and, as said above, we won't be going into the French game feeling smug. Weaknesses were exposed which we can work on.
It was worth trying the formation but it proves that while it really suits Duff & Reid it isolates the front man. As soccerc says, Clinton worked his ass off & I actually think he performed a difficult job very well.
It was also worthwhile giving Steven Reid a lengthy run out and, for once, in his best position.
The French will have learnt little other than we were poor at defending set-pieces (again) and were vulnerable to early long balls.
I'm hoping Dunne's performance reflected his injury / fitness. But I'm getting the impression that he's a great "backs-to-the-wall" defender (like at Highbury, OT and Chelsea last year) but maybe not so well suited to an open game. Andy O'Brien definitely improves our defence.
I actually thought O'Shea did well in midfield & even if others don't agree it was definitely useful to see him there.
Elliott, as I consistently say, has a real eye for goal and his time will come soon. Niall Quinn pointed out that he has a great knack of losing his marker.
The biggest downside for me was not being able to be there and having to put up with Paul Dempsey doing his Bill O'Herlihy devil's advocate impression after the game. Some Irish in my local in NW London didn't even know our player's names. O'Shea was getting a pasting from one drunken idiot every time Andy O'Brien touched the ball.
Good match last night considering how poor friendlies normally are.
OBrien was solid when he came on. Holland didnt do enough before he went off injured to displace Kilbane from the centre of the park for the french game
For what its worth the team I would go with against France is below, I reckon its what Kerr will go with as well except he will probably play Finnan in midfield instead of reid and have oshea at left back. Fingers crossed for the next couple of weeks that we dont pick up any injuries
Given
Carr - OBrien - Kenny - Finnan
Reid - Kilbane - Roy - Duff
Morrison - Robbie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I agree with that, he always looks a class act when I see him for City and looks nervous when I see him in the Green. Very frustrating because he's a great defender on his day.
I think he's much better than O'Brien in the Premiership but O'Brien is showing him how it's done in th eInternational arena. A lot of it last night could be put down to his match fitness alright though, I saw him after about 25 minutes and his jersey was soaking compared to a small few patches on everybody else's.
Plenty we can do before France.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Revert to 4-4-2. It's what we know and play best. The two Keanes back in. RK and Kilbane in the centre. Holland was anonymous before going off. We won't end up playing long balls into Morrison and completely ignoring Duff in his best position on the wing. This will also give more protection to our defence.
O' Brien in for Dunne. Apart from the fact that Dunne obvioulsy wan't match fit I think O' Brien brings more composure to the defence and has better positional sense.
Full backs, Carr on the right and Finnan on the left. IMO Finnan is a better defender than O'Shea even when playing on the left (however I will accept he didn't have his best game last night). Finnan will definitely give us more options going forward.
The most pleasing thing for me was how well Morrison played. Held the ball up really well and was unlucky with a couple of good strikes. The guy never seems to stop running for the 90 minutes. Definitely our best option to play up front with Keane. Elliot looked good when he came on and would be a good option late on in the French game if we need a goal.
All in all I thought it was a good run out and was good preparation for the French match so long as Kerr has the sense to play 4-4-2 in September
I swa this quote from Kerr after the match:
``We've been very slavish in Ireland in general about 4-4-2 and it's benefits.
It's fine, but it depends on the players you have.
``When you look at Italy, in their last three matches they've played three
different systems - 4-3-3, 4-4-2, and in this game 4-3-2-1.
``Because there's not too much change or variation in the English league, I
don't think that's particularly good for a player's education.
``It's not something we can do anything about, but I still think we did well,
created chances with 14 decent attempts on goal.
``I wanted to play the team we did. I will look at it again and review it in a
calmer environment. I will think about things and make my decisions over the
next few weeks.''
Very professional response I thought. Last night was one of the first times in years I didn't have any issues withy team selections or substitutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Agreed re the team selection and the substitutions. It was a freindly and variations need to be looked at. Was happy to see him try a different formation also. It maybe something for the future but for now he needs to revert to 4-4-2 for France match.
I think he will. I'm not sure I'd disagree with Stickyjoe's team selection above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotsy
That's the team I'd pickQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I just read Mark Lawrenson's analysis in the Irish Times. I mostly agree with the analysis of the shape & its merits / demerits but I totally disagree with the tone, like last night was some kind of disaster. Kerr was right to have a look at a 3 man central midfield without Roy Keane, even if it was only to rule it out as a viable option in a competitive match. I honestly think that if we have both Keanes back we'll play 4-4-2, and most likely will anyway regardless of who's available.
I didnt see the game until TV3 showed it. I was just going on reports from radio.Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
CLintion did a lot of work last night, running etc, but his finishing wasnt great.
He could have done better with those shots he had, how many were on target ?Same about the handball because he made a good turn.
Im a fan of Clint, he has done well for us. No substitute for robbie though.
Mark Lawerenson is a fan of 4-4-2 keep it simple approach. One of his pet hates is when teams try to use different tatical formations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Kerr was dead right in trying out 4-3-3 again. If we get any friendlies again before the WC it might be worth another look. It might throw the French off as to what formation we will play. If Roy and Robbie are fit then its defitnely going to be 4-4-2.
here is lawersons article btw.
Quote:
Ireland playing 4- 3-3 just doesn't add up
Mark Lawrenson
Analysis: That was an experiment in Lansdowne Road last night that has, hopefully, been binned. It's the first part of the match that counts. Forget the last half hour. They make changes, we make changes. People come and go, it's the first hour that counts and, in that time, I tried to understand the logic of Brian Kerr and I couldn't do it.
I hope next month in the World Cup qualifying match against France we play 4-4-2. That's what Irish teams do. They do 4-4-2. I remember when Mick McCarthy first took the job and he experimented with 4-3-3 and 5-3-2. He had a little look at everything, but no. Once we go to 4-4-2, it's is what we do best. Everyone knows the role well.
I looked at Reid, Holland and Kilbane in midfield doing the job of two men, or rather, doing the job two men could have done. It was a formation where no one really appeared to know what it was.
The great problem was Morrison up front with Duff and Andy Reid trying to feed off him. Reid Holland and Kilbane in midfield were very tight and that was a problem because we never stopped the Italian full backs getting out. More often one ball beat the three midfield players. They were like a daisy chain in the first half, almost like they were holding hands in there.
Then you'd Vieri dropping off the two Irish centre backs and linking everything up for Italy. The centre backs weren't sure whether to come tight to him and in the end nobody was picking up. Ireland had lots of numbers, but no one was picking up. It was a classic case of people knowing they'd numbers in there, but forgetting to pick up and that's what happened.
To be honest about it, if after half an hour it had been 3-0 to Italy nobody could have complained. When players don't pick players up it's like they're not sure of what they are supposed to be doing. That lack of surety then spreads throughout the side.
Obviously, this was a dress rehearsal for the French game next month. If somebody like Zidane is going to get the time and space in behind the midfield players that we gave last night, then Ireland won't be anywhere near them. I know Roy Keane will probably be back and we'll have to assume we cannot play that system.
Hopefully, Kerr will change his mind and say 'this system that I've tried to play was a bit of an experiment and if you seriously think I'm going to play that way against France it will be like Joan Of Arc'. It was that simple.
The other problem was that in the first half when you don't have much of the ball and you're forever chasing ball, you end up playing Hollywood balls all the time.
Poor old Clinton Morrison. They were sticking balls up to him. He's got Nesta and Cannavaro all over him. He couldn't even hold the ball up to get Reid and Duff into the game.
Basically, your two best attackers, Reid and Duff, are completely nullified. And it just spread right through the team. Shay Given made a couple of brilliant saves early on, but you know it's a real worry. I always look at these games and analyse them for the first hour.
As I said, forget the last half an hour when all the best players play. Yes, sure in the last half an hour we had a couple of chances, a couple of saves and Stephen Elliott showed a little bit of promise, but it's after the event. Duff also had a few runs down the left and you could see what he can do.
I'm now looking at the French and hoping that he's going to go 4-4-2. Because, out wide, players will tuck in. They'll defend. I mean, when you play against a team like Italy, you have got to compete in midfield. Pirlo must have thought he was playing on his own pitch. He'd so much time and so much space, it was frightening.
It would have been interesting to have had a microphone at the home of Mr Roy Keane, wouldn't it? It is a long time since an Irish team has been out-played in that sort of way and the thing is that last night we contributed to our own downfall.
"Hopefully, Kerr will change his mind and say 'this system that I've tried to play was a bit of an experiment and if you seriously think I'm going to play that way against France it will be like Joan Of Arc'. It was that simple."
Does anybody know WTF he is talking about with the Joan of Arc reference :confused:
I think she got burnt or something .. i dont exactly konw..
Big Ron eat your heart out :oQuote:
... you end up playing Hollywood balls all the time.
I think it was fairly obvious that the irish team was all over the place centrally for the first 30 mins, Holland Reid, Dunne Cunningham and Kilbane did not know where to go on the new system and found it hard to pick up the italian runners. After the Italian 2nd goal we seemed to get going as we scored straight away and then controlled the match for the rest of the game. In my opinion John O Shea had his best game for Ireland in a long time. He has been poor and short of confidence over the last season or 2 but last night he was trying his old tricks going down the wing beating players and he put in a few crunching tackles. He seems to have a bit more agression this season as I noticed that when he played for Man Utd too. I thought he did better than Holland in midfield and he is a very good passer of the ball when he is in the central positions. Dont rule O Shea out as a future replacement for Keane, if Glenn Whelan does not progress like he should.
I thought that Dunne and Cunnigham and Matt Holland lacked match sharpness and were exposed time and time again. O Brien played very well when he came on and he will be a certain starter in September. I thought Andy Reid showed for the ball more than any player last night and some of his passsing was great, but he needs to add a bit more consistancy to this game.
Duff was great going forward when he got the ball, but a few times he passed his man on when there was nobody to pick him up but I think in a competitive game he would have followed him.
Once again Given showed why that, only Czech and Buffon are probably ahead of him in the world when it comes to playing in goals.
Overall a good nights entertainment and it will mean we have a good few things to sort out between now and September. However I think it was a good friendly to have a much better than a simple 1 or 2 nil win against a team not trying to play. The italians really went for it for about 60 minutes.
Overall I think the team for the France game will be
Given
Carr/Finnan
Cunningham
O Brien
O Shea
Andy Reid
Keane
Kilbane
Duff
Keane
Morrisson
The only decision to make for me is at Right back and its a close call.
I'm worried about Kilbane. When he's playing well he's great, but when he's playing bad he's one of the worst players on the planet. Did you see his assist for Italy's first goal? Christ on a bike, he couldn't have placed the ball any better.
Then in the second half he comes out and plays well.
But which Kilbane will show up for the France game? I don't know if it's a risk I'd be willing to take as a manager.
Yes, as exemplified by the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
I tried to understand the logic of Brian Kerr and I couldn't do it
Oh come on Mark. Just cos it didn't really work doesn't mean there was no logic in trying it. I could easily see the logic & several others here seem to agree. Fair play Brian Kerr.
I remember when Mick McCarthy first took the job and he experimented with 4-3-3 and 5-3-2. He had a little look at everything, but no. Once we go to 4-4-2, it's is what we do best.
Yeah but that was 9 years ago with totally different players, most of them inexperienced & unsuited to the roles given to them.
Only 11 years ago we beat Italy in a competitive WC Finals match playing a defensive 4-5-1. What does that say?
I agree with his assessment of the midfield 3 though. The most obvious local exponent of the 4-5-1 is Chelsea. A lone frontman struggles to score regularly so the defence must be rock solid. One of the midfield 3 does nothing but hold. The wide men are key (and Duff & Reid both did well yesterday) but so too is having an attacking midfielder to add to the frontman's contribution. We didn't get the midfield balance right last night.
It would have been interesting to have had a microphone at the home of Mr Roy Keane, wouldn't it? It is a long time since an Irish team has been out-played in that sort of way and the thing is that last night we contributed to our own downfall.
Was Roy even weatching? Remember he only "flicked" through the Iran game:) I doubt Roy gives two hoots about last night's result. He knows more than anyone just how irrelevant friendlies are.
I agree entirely. I thought he looked like the O'Shea of a couple of years ago. Lovely footwork at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I hope he keeps his place ahead of Heinze in next 2 weeks because I still have a mistrust of him at left back, especially when he's not playing regularly at club level. I think Kerr will pick him, but on last night's performance the only spots in any doubt are the full-back roles. For what it's worth I thought Harte did well too, poor free kicks aside.
If there are any definitive lessons from yesterday it's that Holland just doesn't bring anything to the party, O'Brien is still a good bit ahead of Dunne, O'Shea and Steven Reid may have more to offer midfield in the nearish future and that Andy Reid must play against France.
Most time I have given Kerr the benifit of doubt.
Even as Lawrenson suggests the possibility that he was trying to purposely pull the wool over the French observers, I would be critical of Kerr's performance last night.
If the players have been training under his supervision over the last days then why would he start with Dunne and Holland, with both players obviously no where near their sharp levels.
I understood that you start with your best 11 or least a fit and sharp 11 even if its a friendly.
As regards the formation, it is late in the day to be trying out a new formation of one up front as your starting point in a home game with 2 big home games on the horizon.
Even if Elliot is not likely to start against the French imo he should have started up front with Morrison, we would not have missed Holland.
When Holland was injured then at least Elliot could have come on.
In theory its fine having Duff on the left wing and expect a supply of crosses and passes, but what do you do when the defence send out another 2 players to stiffle him, at one time there 4 players queueing to dispossess him and no Robbie Keane making runs to deflect.
Previously I thought Ireland would beat the French now it would be a very good result to come back from a goal down and equalize in the second half.
Im a big fan of O'Shea but he has been poor of late. His passing from full back is terrible. I too thought he played well in midfield, but maybe it was the fact that Holland hid from the game. O'Shea then worked hard in that position and because his passing was short he gave it away less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I don't think you should necesarily start with your best 11 in a friendly. Sometimes, like in the case of Dunne for example , it's a good idea to plan for the contingency that, say, O'Brien is injured.
I'm not sure how you can expect everyone to be sharp & fit in the middle of August. With the exception of Steven Reid all of our central midfield options have had limited pre-season training or pitch action. Roy Keane was unavailable. So was Kavanagh. Kilbane only came on late against MUFC, Holland didn't play last weekend & it seems Miller last played a full game about 2 years ago. Dunne's injury we all know about, likewise Cunningham's ribs / lung. A match like this is ideal to get everyone match fit.
If this team is to evolve & develop I don't see why it's late in the day to experiment. Friendly matces are exactly the time to experiment.
Just read football365.com's review of the England game last night. They pointed out that England lost 2-0 to a top class Holland side in August of 2001, the same side who we beat 4 weeks later, so I'm not too disappointed after last night's game, the performance later into the match was heartening, and it's good to know we do have options in all positions, and if nothing else could be taken from the game, we started and finished the game with an entire side of premiership players, it's been a while since that happened!
Agree. I thought he was poor last night. You're looking for quality at this level and he has none, he was giving away the ball left right and centre and showed no tactical awareness whatsoever. But, he ran around alot, got a few tackles in and gave away a free or two and to some people that's fantastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
I think Josh has far better technical ability than killer and I long for the day where Josh plays like he did in the first half. It would start to solve a lot of problems in the Irish setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
The defeat doesn't really worry me. The 4-3-3 formation doesn't really suit the players we have and Morrison was left too isolated (still a worthwhile exercise to look at it though) and presumably we'll play 4-4-2 against France and do better. Left-back is a problem though. Neither Harte nor O'Shea looked comfortable. Harte diving in by the East touchline was unbelievable from an international defender, he didn't get near the ball and had the Italian not jumped over him, Harte would been off. I'd agree with the people above who want Finnan (who had a good game I thought) at left back but I don't think it will happen.