That's true Neill but I think Tarzan was referring to the year ('05) not the day!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
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That's true Neill but I think Tarzan was referring to the year ('05) not the day!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
2-1 or 0-3 :(
Player for player they are a much better team, in the past we did we'll against big teams by being well organised, hell of a work rate and having a set system of play.
Under Kerr we don't seem to have any of these :(
Tend to agree, a scrappy 1-0 win or a drubbing by several goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by laurent
I don't feel optimistic either. Watching Cunningham and Dunne play this weekend made me even more nervous. Now, they both had decent games for their respective clubs, they're solid journeymen, but the lack of pace was so glaring. You can get away with that against the like of Man City and Brmgham strikers, but Cisse and Henry will have both of them for lunch.
And I can't see where our goals will come from. Maybe a screamer from Andy Reid. Don't think Robbie K will get much of a sniff. Duff will more than likely be out on the wing and won't have many scoring chances, unless we go with a Chelsea style 4-5-1/4-3-3, but we don't have the central midfield for that, nor the speedy right winger/forward a la Robben.
The thought of a French midfield composed of Viera/Makelele breaking up play and with Zidane sitting in front is scary.
I'd break the probablity down like this...
Irish win.... 20%
Draw........ 40%
French win 40%
Duff on the wing makes us MORE likely to score goals in my opinion and I think we've got two very quick & dangerous wingers - Duff & Reid - who interchange in exactly the same way as Duff & Robben do, so I don't share your pessimism. Robbie & Clinton WILL get chances. Let's not get too pessimistic about this game. Recently we beat Portugal at home let's not forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcán Masaya
Duff & Robben appear to have their flair being coached out of them at Chelsea. But the French should be wary of a free-flowing Duff in September.
And for those thinking that the return of the ageing French 3 will make an improvement certain, bear the following in mind (from The Times). Note that the article focusses on the French team & their future chances in general, not specifically in the context of the Irish game. Also, there's no certainty they'll all be fit or in form or even fully match sharp as Italian & Spanish seasons start later than England. Their equivalent of the Charity Shield was this weekend.
(I've highlighted in bold the points I think are most relevant).
Zidane lifeline could prove hard to grasp
By Gabriel Marcotti
A legend's return to the colours may end in tears
JORGE VALDANO ONCE REMARKED that with his weary, sunken features and powerful physique, Zinedine Zidane reminded him of a boxer. Indeed, there was something rather Rocky Balboaesque in the Frenchman’s decision to return to the international scene.
In Rocky IV, the eponymous Sylvester Stallone character witnesses his friend, Apollo Creed, get beaten to death in the ring by Ivan Drago, the fearsome Soviet amateur, and decides to return to the squared circle to exact his vengeance. In Zizou MMV, our hero, together with his pals, Claude Makelele and Lilian Thuram, rides back on to the scene to rescue Les Bleus from the embarrassment of missing out on the 2006 World Cup.
Last Wednesday, in Montpellier, France played Ivory Coast in a friendly and Act One of the script played out to perfection. Makelele slotted back into his usual watchdog role in front of the back four. Thuram, winning his 103rd cap, marshalled the defence majestically (at least until the 24th minute, when he came off injured). But there was no doubt who was the hero of the night. Zidane’s every touch, indeed his every shimmy, saunter and stare were greeted with rapturous applause.
The day after, the French press was filled with a celebration of the “Zidane Effect”. “The Light has Returned”, trumpeted L’Equipe. Thierry Henry summed up the prevailing mood when he said: “We have rediscovered our pace, our form and the pleasure of playing all together. Zizou brought us a great deal and we felt he was at ease with us.” Indeed, he looked extremely comfortable in the 3-0 thrashing of Ivory Coast. Yet the plain truth for France and Raymond Domenech, their embattled coach, is that things could well take a different turn when France return to competitive action next month in the World Cup qualifiers.
Les Bleus are in serious danger of watching the final stages of the competition on television, which is why Zidane’s return smacks of desperation. Their qualifying group was supposed to be a cakewalk: three minnows (the Faeroe Isles, Israel and Cyprus) and two average opponents (Switzerland and Ireland). Yet France lie fourth after a string of nightmare results. It has been more than a year since they won a competitive match against anyone other than Cyprus or the Faeroe Isles and they failed even to score at home against Ireland and Switzerland.
On the surface, Zidane and the other two musketeers bring an instant psychological lift. But their presence is bound to have a knock-on effect on the rest of the team.
For starters, it will be nearly impossible for Domenech to drop any of them, even if they lose form. After all, they are the heroes who came back for love of country. Of course, if they play to their ability there will be no need to contemplate such a thing. Yet Zidane and Thuram are 33 and Makelele is just a year younger. All three play for clubs who are likely to go deep into Champions League competition this year.Then there is the tactical issue. Thuram ’s presence in central defence forces William Gallas back in exile on the left flank (and we know how much he enjoys that). Makelele will partner Patrick Vieira, which means there is no room for the gifted Vikash Dhorasoo and Benôit Pedretti.
Having flopped out wide in Jacques Santini’s ill-conceived 4-4-2 system at Euro 2004, there is only one place for Zidane: in the hole. The question then becomes how do you fill the remaining three spots around him? Do you play Henry as a lone striker, with some combination of Jerome Rothen, Ludovic Giuly, Florent Malouda and Sylvain Wiltord out wide? If so, what happens to David Trezeguet, France’s only genuine centre forward and a man who, despite his injuries, has an absurdly prolific scoring record for both club (72 goals in 119 Serie A appearances for Juventus) and country (31 in 59 games), without a single free kick or penalty?
Or do you restore the Trezeguet-Henry partnership? In which case, you would have to add a third central midfield player and give up on wingers entirely, which is probably not a good idea since it means Gallas would have to cover the whole left flank on his own. The unpleasant truth is that France’s returning heroes are rather like gaudy wedding gifts from a mad aunt: you may not want to keep them around, but you have no choice because she’s coming over for dinner.
And it’s somewhat disturbing that of the three, the one who is most exposed is Zidane, who has blown hot and cold, both for Real Madrid and for France in the past few years. Sections of the Spanish press have accused him of not turning up against unglamorous opposition and Real acquired two more attacking midfield players over the summer — Júlio Baptista and Robinho — precisely because they plan to rotate Zidane in and out of the side.
Having said all that, you can’t help but commend Zidane and the others for putting themselves on the line. If France do not qualify for the World Cup, it will be a humiliation. And it’s far from an unthinkable possibility. France have four games left, two easy ones against Cyprus and the Faeroe Isles, and two tough trips to Switzerland and Ireland. If they fail to win at least one of those away matches, things will get very tricky indeed and even a play-off place becomes an unlikely proposition.
It would be an unpleasant end to the international career of three living legends. Still, the comeback worked for Rocky Balboa. Not only did he beat Ivan Drago, he got to deliver a speech about reconciliation and brotherhood. Then again, that was just a film . . .
Excellent article thanks for posting
You're welcome. If anyone has seen any other weekend articles from subscription sites such as The Tribune or The Examiner on Ireland can he/she pls post here? Alternatively, I'd be interested to hear the French reaction to the Ivory Coast win if anyone's based over there.
Let's face it, would we be getting all excited if we beat Ivory Coast 3-0 last Wednesday?
I would not be for sure and I think this result has in effect papered over the cracks in the French teamQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Have to agree. We have a better squad than we have had in the past but seem to have lost our fighting spirit and the toughness that made us so formidable in the past.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Condex
Being underdogs against the French should help and I think Roy Keane might rise to the occassion. He will have to reproduce his form of 2001 against Holland and Portugal.
Let's face it we need all our guys to come up with big games - play above themselves - , or the French to play below their ability, and we need Kerr to finally prove he is can manage at this level.
For all the matches in the campaign to date I've been waiting unpatiently with anticipation only to be disappointed with the quality of our play and results - except Paris. This is the big one, everyone knows it. A good result here and we should be up for the Swiss and Cyprus.
Come on you boys in green ..........
More in hope than expectation.
This all sounds like the first half hour against Holland in 2001! Roy Keane's tackle on Overmars aside we were an unmitigated disaster. Remember when Gary Kelly got caught on the ball by Kluivert only for him to roll the ball past the post? We had Stan and a young Richie Dunne as an improvised centre-back pairing & a right-back who was so bad that we were actually better when he was sent off! Players like Duff, Robbie & Shay were still relative rookies. If we have even half the luck we had that day we'll be laughing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryPhelan
I wonder will the Lansdowne wind be a factor?
and for once we had a referee who gave us half a chance, remember Shay Given upending a dutch guy? I was sure he was going to give itQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Yeah, it was Van Nistelrooy. Stan and Shay were in a mix up and RVN got in between them. Shay stood up as RVN was about to jump over him, totally blocking RVN & they both went down. I couldn't believe it wasn't given.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy
In the last minute RVN had a header that left Shay rooted to the spot. It missed the post by about an inch I reckon. Such luck only comes around about every 4 years. 4 years and 2 days would be nice.
Nervous. Exceedingly nervous. Can see us being played off the park if we are not careful. Need a wet, cold night and a bumpy pitch! Actually, we need to hold onto the ball and harry them every time they get it. I can't see them not scoring so we are going to need to score ourselves. I think we should attack them like we did the Dutch in Holland. When the Dutch came here we basically let them come at us which played directly into their hands.
I´m way more nervous for this game than I was for the Dutch game (cos basically for some reason I didn´t think we had a hope against the Dutch!). I defo reckon we can get a 1-0 win out of this, but am dreading any free kicks around the box in the last 10 mins or so with Zidane on the pitch
I think we all know that we are going to lose to the French. Let's just hope we can eek out a draw to stay in contention. We messed up away in Israel and we should have beaten them at home as well. We don't deserve to qualify at this stage.
I love your positive attitude!!
How can you say we all know we are going to lose to the French? We can hold any team at Lansdowne & have proved that over the years. We also should have beaten France in Paris, we deserve to be were we are in the group & I actually think we will win this group even if we draw with France.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vega007
Speak for yourself and yourself aloneQuote:
Originally Posted by vega007
France dew home and away to Israel and Switzerland drew away. Do either of them or Israel deserve to qualify ahead of us at this stage. No is the answer. Qualification is still in our own hands. It will be a hard match but I think if our players play to the best of their ability we have every chance of beatring France in LR.Quote:
Originally Posted by vega007
I was in our office in Paris last Friday. Everyone there thinks it is now a foregone conclusion that France will beat Ireland and Switzerland and qualify top of the group. Hopefully their players are equally as cocky and sure of themselves.
And hopefully if an injury occurs the manager won't fcuk up again like in the Israel game where we were cruising and robbie had to come off and Kavanagh went on :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotsy
Cruising? Israel's 2 best chances of the match came in a period while Keane was on the pitch. They got back into the game before many of us would like to believe. They literally walked the ball into our box at one point down their left wing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin12
Hey lads I hope that we can draw or even win, I just don't see it happening. We've been going downhill ever since that last minute goal away to Israel. Keane is 34 now and not the player he was even two years ago. We're done.
Vieira didn't have much joy against him in 3 games last year. I don't think Keane can take teams on single-handedly like he did against Portugal in 2001 but he's still a top class player.Quote:
Originally Posted by vega007
Amidst all the Chelsea media hysteria last season many people failed to notice that for a very large part of last season MUFC showed championship form. In Nov/Dec/Jan and Feb last season they went 20 unbeaten, winning 15. Keane was central to this run. Keane was everywhere in the second half at Arsenal in the 4-2 once Almunia's errors opened the door. Vieira meanwhile looked lost.
Couldn't be more cocky than Van Gal was 4 years ago:-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotsy
We did good against the French in Paris and I don't see football reasons why that effort cannot be replicated. The attitude and confidence was spot on that day right from the kick off.
France may have a better team than that day but our team has also (quietly) improved in some areas.
FWIW we have 9 players on the likely team v France, who played (or could have played) 4 years ago against the Dutch. Given, Finnan, (Cunningham) Dunne/o'Brien, Kilbane, Keane, Duff and Robbie Keane. That leaves O'Shea, A Reid and Morrison as the new kids. Sadly Kavanagh looks to be injured.
2-1.
We're going to the world cup, end of story.
Having seen a bit of the MUFC vs Newcastle game (I was watching the cricket mainly) I saw Boumsong have a total mare. Was badly at fault for both United's goals. I hope to God he's picked for Dublin. O'Shea had a good game except for one careless error when it was still 1-0. Andy Gray reckoned Carr was lucky to stay after a pull on Ronaldo on but he was too strong for Ronaldo & it was always Given's ball anyway (impartial view!).
If Boumsong plays it'll massively enhance our chances.
French have regained Zidane, Thuram and Makalele, they're preparing for this one so meticulously they even have their rugby man over to tell them what to expect from the lansdowne crowd...they're up for it.
Ireland? Everyone beginning to doubt the manager, still annoyed at having thrown away two leads to Israel and losing a friendly to Italy...
We're the underdogs!!!! YES!!! We don't stand a chance, we're just little old Ireland...BRING ON THE FRENCH!!! Let's prove 80+% of them WRONG!!!!
These prediction threads usually throw up three sorts of characters: (a) the wildly optimistic like COWBOY who bases his predictions on nothing other than blind loyalty to his country, has untold optimism, ignores all previous results and says to predict otherwise is negative and we should all get behind the lads, (b) those who analyse in depth every flaw and weakeness in both teams and the managers and come out with a scientific prediction and finally (c) those like me who have been following Ireland for years who hope for the best but fear the worst.
I sat round a table in Basle with 9 friends before the last Swiss game and we all predicted the result. All 9 of them predicted an Irish win. I said a draw. I pointed out that we don't do major away wins, Kerr hasn't beaten a major team in a competitive game blah blah etc etc but they wouldn't be persuaded. I wish I could possess that optimism but having been kicked in the teeth so often both for club and country I find it hard to believe it will all work out for us.
Over the years only about 3 times has lady luck glanced our way: Sofia (1987), Holland (2001) and Germany (2002).
To beat France we need to play at the top of our game, the ref needs to be a homer (unlike the one for the Israel game), France need to miss the chances they will undoubtedly create, the two Keanes and Duff need to play out of their skins and everyone in the crowd needs to come out of the ground hoarse. If we get all these we'll do a 1-0. If not we'll be lucky to get a draw.
Utter nonsense not worthy of a lengthy response. You also forgot to mention the prophets of doom who consider betting against their own team with no rationale whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I think the prophets of doom fall into (c+). Don't mean they won't get 100% behind the team but fear the worst will happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy
However, betting against your own country is a different issue. Never done it myself. I suppose you could argue that it softens the blow when the worst happens but I remember almost thumping the sister's boyfriend many years ago when he gloated with a smug face after someone (can't remember who) hadn't beaten Ireland that he had bet on the opposition.
There is nothing to fear but fear itself
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy
We have a good side, and under normal circumstances Ireland-France would be the tie of the night. However, we should be in a better position in the group. We need to beat the French, sadly we won't due to:Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanieBoy
A. Conservative approach
B. Can't defend leads
C. Terrible tactics
Once Cisse, Henry, and Zidane run rings around Dunne, O'Brien, O'Shea, the French will stroll home. If Italy could destroy us in half an hour of a friendly, god only knows what France will do to us in a qualifier. :(
This team has had loads of chances to dictate this group, and bad defending, and bad tactics means we have squandered every one. You only get so many chances in the World Cup, and if you don't take them, you end up paying for them.
Haven't a hope lads, so BK will be out of a job in 2 months time. Prediction: Ireland 1-3 France. Game Over. :(
Sad to say that I agree. 3-1 scoreline seems to have a peculiar aptness about it too - I can almost see it in the next day's papers. I think it would be very unfair to put Kerr out of a job for this though. McCarthy had a crack at 3 and a bit qualifying campaigns before his time came, and he made far more and far worse errors of judgment than Kerr has. I don't know how we can beat France. People seem to be comforting themselves with the dusty notion of a 'passion and pride, blood and bandages' performance, which will supposedly be enough to see us past the French. Sadly, even if this was sufficient, there has been no evidence of it in any of the performances of Kerr's team. The only fire, passion and grit has come from the terraces, not from the players. I don't see why Kerr would be responsible for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
I always hate it when foreign media always assumes "ah sure the Irish, they'll play with plenty of passion" ignoring the fact that world class players like Keane, Duff, Given have a lot more than just passion about them. That's why I always admired Barry Davies of the BBC, the only English commentator who ever gave us credit for playing good football. It makes me bloody mad actually, and it makes me even madder when our own suggest that a good old dose of Irish passion will see us through. If footballers aren't fired up for a game & aren't fully committed to give absolutely everything then no matter how important the game is, they shouldn't be playing. "Passion" (God, I even hate the term) should be an absolute given.Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryPhelan
The reason I think we can beat the French is because of Given, Finnan, Reid, Keane (x2) & Damien Duff, the Cunningham/O'Brien partnership, plus the very competent rest of the team. Nothing to do with ****ing passion. Yes, if we start like we did against Italy or lose concentration like we did against Israel we'll be in trouble. But remember we beat a very good Portugal side recently too. I'd actually fancy Portugal to beat France.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Thats the spirit.
Well, it's not all negative then. At least you see us going ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Yes France are such a top side they are bound to stuff us, you only have to look at their record. I mean in the last 2 years they have ...err.. beat Israel at home , oh no wait that was 0-0. Ok I know we played them at fortress Paris and they thrashed us that day .. no hang on that was 0-0 as well. Wait a minute, I'll find one in a sec... ahhh here we go they were at home to the Swiss last March and ..oh... that was 0-0 as well.
Ok , I'll find a match where they actually scored.. AHA !!! Israel , 1-0 up and then went on to ... DRAW ?? they drew 1-1 - No way this lot are a world beating class act. How can anyone blow a 1-0 lead away to Israel ? the manager should have been sacked , formation must have been wrong.
Now look, I know France are going to thrash us because they are far far far too superior, hang on one mo while I dig out some results. RIGHT there we are !! 2-0 against the Faroes and 2-0 against Cyprus. Well , if thats not World Cup form I dont know what is.
We havent got a prayer after that debacle against Italy in THE most important friendly in Irelands history - what a body blow that was. You wait and see how good the French are in their friendlies.... I'll just dig out the results and I'll put you optimists in your place, just you wait there and see !