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How could anyone in the 26 be "fond" of l*nfield ??? I really am baffled by that. All they brought to the Setanta Cup Final was sectarian and racist chants together with dodgy flags. They should have been docked prize money but that was never going to happen.
Look out for Balinamallard United after taking a drive through there once.
Strabane is more of a GAA town these days.
Most people who follow local football either go to the Brandywell, or head to the dark side (Finn Harps)!
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Originally Posted by parnell ranger
Feck 'em all how could someone love another team in the same country your club is from
Technically, sympathising with a club in the North is not the same country, or anyway not the same league ;)
And I don't see what Linfield brought to the Setanta Cup that was that sectarian. I was at Tolka for the final, and they did NOT sing the Billy Boys or any other offending song. There were no riots and the fans of both sides behaved well.
Yes, they waved Union Jacks. Well, it is the national flag of the UK, and Northern Ireland happens to be part of that. Plus, Linfield is a Unionist club so waving a Union Jack is something done at every game, they did not bring those flags just to annoy the Shels fans. So a Linfield fan waving a Union Jack is not more sectarian than the few Irish Flags the Shelbourne fans had. No one took offense to those tricolores or Union Jacks.
On the contrary, Linfield wore black armbands when the Pope died, and 95% of their support declared in public how disgusted they were with those 20 or 30 lads who sang "Billy Boys".
I do not want to go into a politics discussion here, but I'd say there were no sectarian elements in the Setanta Cup, not from Linfield or any other club from North/ROI. It passed without riots and got positive respons from fans on both ends of the border, and even brought football fans from the North and the Republic together (think of the ties between Longford and Glens, how the Ports and Shels fans were happy with the way they were welcomed, etc)
Also, I don't see why a ROI based fan could not be able to like Linfield. It's a sports club just like Glentoran or Cliftonville or Drogheda or whatever, and (luckily) there are also people who don't care about politics and who don't let politics decide which teams to like. The politics aspect is something some people wish to add to it, their choice, but in the end Linfield is a football club just like the other football clubs are on this island.
What ?????? How big do you think Strabane is ??? It's not much bigger than Letterkenny, and give it a few years and L'Kenny will actually be bigger...!Quote:
Originally Posted by parnell ranger
Until Omagh died there were already 2 senior clubs in what is a small county population-wise. Enniskillen is MILES bigger than Strabane - yet why no surprise at the lack of a senior club there.....? :confused:
How about f*ck the Pope chants during The Sash, and The Sash was sung quite a bit. Monkey chants when Ndo came on. And that lovely dittie about being up to one's knees in Fenian blood. How's that for starters ? All of that was clearly, clearly audible on TV.Quote:
I don't see what Linfield brought to the Setanta Cup that was that sectarian
The above should start to answer that. Also, the clubs no-Catholic policy which they had up to the late eighties. Linfield FC have admittedly cleaned up their act in recent times. The majority of their support base however still remains in the 17th century.Quote:
Also, I don't see why a ROI based fan could not be able to like Linfield
The reason that football has become the most popular sport in the world is not because they kick a ball around with 22 men chasing it, it is because football is so much more. A football club acts as a sort of national team for your locality, you take pride in your team just as you take pride in your locality. What makes up a locality is its inhabitants and so the inhabitants views and beliefs are insilled in the football club. You try and tell the Red star Belgrade fans that its just an ordinary football club, they brought down Milosevic and there football ground was the only place in Belgrade where you could shout obsenitys about Milosevic and not get arrested. Just one example out of thousands whereby a football club is a symbol of your locality. Politics feature on the minds of many fans and so politics is brought into football, it is impossible to separate the 2 and when football is just about the sport is when it will die. Now you say Linfield is just a club like the rest, no, no 2 clubs are the same. I look at Linfield as the extreist scum trashed The showgrounds in the 70s because wer Catholic the same club that excluded cathoilcs for the majority of its vile history. Now the day you tell me to forgive and forget about what Linfield did and what there fans continue to do is the day you tell a Jewish person to forgive what the Lazio fans do, there only a minority but you would not expect them to turn a blind eye to the swatstikas or the straight arm salutes or the references to Auschwitz. No difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrit
yes, enniskillen is MUCH bigger than wee strabane :eek: i think maybe that GAA is much more popular in Fermanagh, in the catholic schools/areas and the protestant schools are more into rugby there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
:eek: That fine place Sylvo! :eek: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sylvo
glentoran definitely for me! when our season ends i might suggest to a few of da section o heads to come up to belfast for a game! :D
Well, agree with most of what Steve says, though on the other hand the past is past. Linfield did get rid of the "non Catholic" policy, and even if they didn't it is not wrong as per definition ; abusing Catholics would be however. A club with Polish immigrants who only lets in Polish people is not wrong IMO as long as the "stay true to the roots" element does not end up on verbas or physical violence of other teams. Maybe a stupid comparison, but you get the point.
As for the Billy Boys and "F*** the Pope" thing: those were approx 40 people who are not even Linfield regulars and just came to Longford to seek trouble. The majority of Linfield regulars afterwards did make their disgust towards this public, and so did the board. So don't say every Linfield fan is stuck in time.
Also, jungle sounds towards black players is unfortunately a common thing everywhere in European football...
Note: I am no Linfield fan, far from LFC fan. I just think it's time to move on and follow the track of the Setanta Cup: looking forward together rather than looking back to the past.
As for a club being a local representation: could not disagree more. Big clubs attract fans from everywhere in their countries, and players come from whatever origin or locality as long as they're good. Most top teams have more players from far outside the city than anything else ; how many Londonors does Chelsea have or how many Liverpudlians are in Liverpool's line-up??
The only "local team" that stayed local is Athletic Bilbao who still refuse to line-up players from outside of Euskadi (which is in fact a bit like the old Protestant-only policy of Linfield !)
Billy Boys and F*** the Pope are sectarian, not even questioning that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnie C
The Sash = sectarian?? I don't see the anti-Catholic element in that song. I do sense the strong pro-British feeling, but is that sectarian?? Then the Soldier Song is as well?? Being proud of one's country is not sectarian as far as I know, unlike violent chants such as the Billy Boys
Linfield FC did not have any Catholic players from 1950-1988 (approx). They had plenty before and plenty since. There was no written rule or policy however it is probable that there was an unwritten one. The club at the time should be condemned for that.
The current club has no sectarian policies - they wore black armbands and flew their flag at half mast for the Pope. They gave their ground freely to a Camoige club and anybody at the Setanta Cup Final could see the love and respect they had for Pat Fenlon.
Now there was a small racist and sectarian minority in their support. They club roundly condemned them in an article just after the Longford game.
Should Irish football and the F.A.I. be condemned because a few sectarian bigots booed and made sectarian comments to Peter Madsen. Shota Arveladze and Neil McCann?
And if you are really concerned re sectarianism in sport on this island there is a far more glaring and obvious case than Linfield 1950-1988.
We've played them a few times in friendlies. They're sh!te :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sylvo
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Originally Posted by gspain
agree with ya re linfield any of their fans ive come across have been sound
Some Catholics were employed in other capacities within the club during this period. Initially the non-signing of players was as a reaction to the happenings at that infamous Belfast Celtic game. And during the 1970's it was basically a player safety concern. Check out Malcom Brodie's history of Linfield for more information.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Thats what disgusts me about the premiersh!t and the countless barstoolers, who do they think there fooling ?? they aint british, the aint scouse and they aint cockney, they just wana be and as far as im concerned the worst kind of fan, someone who would neglect his local team for a foreign team. But if you read my post i never mentoned that teams must be made up of local lads, just the fans. That comment on Athletic Bilbao just shows how there seen as the national team for the Basques and what national team plays foreigners apart from Ireland and Tunisia. Football clubs arnt just football clubs, theres a reason why Spanish local councils give funding to there local team because there local team, remember you dont choose your team, your team chooses you. ( By local team i mean local club )Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrit
The day after the Derry game, a few of us took a wander up to the showgrounds in Coleraine for the CIS Cup game between Coleraine and Institute. I've started looking out for Coleraines results in the few weeks since then
:confused: How was that sectarian ?? People were merely expressing their displeasure for players who line out for an anti-Irish club. What's religion got to do with that ?? For the record, McCann is a Catholic.Quote:
a few sectarian bigots booed and made sectarian comments to Peter Madsen. Shota Arveladze and Neil McCann?
If team's fans must be local, so must the players, that's my opinion. The time that a club represents a locality is long gone, with a few exceptions like Bilbao. Most clubs have the criterium "whatever player gets us good results"...
I never supported a local club BTW, in Belgium I travelled 50 miles every week and then 50 back for my team, and it was not a top team (we played out of Premier Division with the exception of 4 years, the other of those 13 years I followed them were in First and Second Division - and in 3 out of 4 of those Premiership years we relegated. But my heart was with them more than with the clubs of where I lived)
And as for Linfield not employing Catholics: nothing wrong with that as long as they don't behave badly towards them. If they are founded as a club representing the protestant community, then so? I mean, there are a few clubs for the Deaf players of a certain town, is it sectarian as well if they don't allow any hearing players??
As long as there is no abuse or racism, I have no problem with a club trying to stay true to her roots. Linfield abusing Catholics is wrong. Linfield only playing with Protestants but still respecting Catholics ; I don't see the problem.
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Originally Posted by sligoman
Hey you can't diss my team like that. ;) Try driving through there on a sunday, interesting place, you wouldn't want to break down there lets put it that way.
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Originally Posted by kerr's tribe
It reminded me of the movie ''deliverance'' :eek:
To be honest I remember a time when English football did not totally dominate the Press down here when there was half decent coverage of the Irish League in the papers. And that is how it should still be , after all we share this benighted piece of land with them so why not stick their results and a few match reports in the Papers. There is every danger a few more IL fans might buy papers from down here and who knows what the positive spinoffs of that could be.
I would prefer if so called supporters here had a passing interest in 6 counties ball then cross channel ball.... and I even include the League of Wales in that one ..... :p
Of course decent coverage of the entire EL including the First Division( IRISH TIMES I am talking directly about you lot here) would be a start!
I'm for Glentoran aswell. Don't know why but again it must be the green shirt. Or the fact that they liked winding up Linfield supporters in the eighties with tricolours.
Actually you'll find that Athletic Bilbao are as lax with the 'all Basque' policy as you feel the FAI are with its 'all Irish' policy. Last time I looked two of their players were born in Logrono in Rioja, a part of Spain even the hardline irredentists within EH and ETA do not consider part of Euskadi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Real Rover
Then there's Navarra. Leaving aside the uncomfortable historic fact of the people of this fine province being the most pro-Franco of Spain (far more than Madrid which incidentally was the last city to fall to Franco) for which they were rewarded with a more generous tax system, is the referendum of August 1982, where the province voted by a majority not to join the Autonomous Basque region. While the North of the province is considered ethnically Basque the south is Castillian. But Athletic does not discriminate here.
Mind you fair play to Athletic: They do try to keep it, in the global scheme of things local - leaving aside the Brazilian they signed in the nineties with the Basque surname which was akin to Brian Kerr signing Shaquille O'Neal or Eddie Murphy - but I'd dispute it being solely Basque.
As for Ireland and Tunisia being the only countries playing foreigners, you never heard of John Barnes? F*cking long way back to find his English ancestors. :rolleyes:
The behaviour of a lot of Linfield fans contradicts the delusions of posters here that they are not sectarian. The Sash isn't sectarian :eek: It and the billy boys were the song of choice at the Brandywell despite blues fans being clapped when they entered the stadium.
The big difference is that in the Sash or in Rule Britannia there is no violence towards others (not directly anyway), those are anthems praising the British (not necessarily hating the Irish) ; whereas Billy Boys has a very explicit violent content with that "up till our necks in... Surrender or die".
I agree that the Billy Boys is a sectarian song and should be strongly disapproved. I'd say the Sash is more or less a patriottic song, which is not wrong IMO. You may could say that it becomes sectarian if you only sing it when playing an Irish team, but I recall that many LFC fans sing it just as well when playing Glens or Crusaders...
Blues fans IMO did a much better job of winding the Glenmen about the Glens seemingly more politically neutral tradition. A large tricolur with Glentoran emblazoned across the front being displayed on at least one occassion, as well as chants of 'Only fenians play in green' often brought a wry smile from me knowing full well that the Glens too have a predominantly loyalist following.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
get over it and stop living in the past you dinosaur.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnie C
Glentoran-Best fans ever in flancare and a few of them seem to really like us for some reason!
I have to say I look out for Linfield as well, having met with some of their fans from the Shankill Road SC up in Dublin. Nice guys and great fans, and I wish them all the best. I was also very impressed by the reaction of their board to the chants you mention- unequivocal condemnation. BTW, why are all your posts on this kind of issue? No interest in anything else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnie C
Does Linfield have a supportersclub in Dublin ? One that's not affiliated to Dublin Loyal ? ;)
That's what bothers me about Linfield: their bonds with Rangers. I dislike both of the Old Firm, and the fact that they have the same colours is no issue to me, the scarves with both names on it is a different thing :eek:
For the same reason I won't start supporting Donegall Celtic. I hope to find a team here with no interest in sectarianism. So no Old Firm connections as well.
Gerrit, you are a relativly new arrival in Ireland, so ill give you some leeway on the finer points of football and politics and how they mix.
To say the sash isn't a sectarian song is quite frankly bonkers. So the words arent explicitly anti-catholic, but they are about the orange order, which is. And contextualise it in terms of when it is sung, by whom, to whom.
The reality is Linfield, while improved, are still percieved by the majority (and it appears their own board) to be the most bigoted team in the north, followed by glentoran, portadown and colraine.
Im amazed how many people with EL affiliations claim to have a soft spot for them. Go up to windsor with your bray, shels or cork shirts and see what happens. Bohs would of course be welcome for historical reasons. Its up to the Rovers and Derry fans to look like luddites pointing this out.
Im not expecting a glib Cliftonville from everyone, but football in the 6 counties does not happen in a vacume.
Majority of whom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
Perceived to be but no hard facts.
How about the club that flew their flag at half mast for the pope and wore black armbands.
The club that gave their ground for use by a camoige club.
The club with numerous RC players.
I see you didn't mention Longford shirts in your bigoted rant - no problems there.
I won't even go there on Portadown, Coleraine or Glentoran.
Yes there are still some problems with sectarianism in IL football on the terraces. However there are problem swith sectarianism in NI society and football will reflect that as long as it is played and supported by people from both communities.
gspain has managed to call me a bigot for pointing out that soccer reflects society and then in the same breath point out that soccer reflects society.
winner of 'inane and half-cocked post of the month' goes to....
it is not bigoted to point out a clubs history.
linfield are traditionally a predominantly protestant, loyalist club.
in the same way derry are a predominantly catholic, nationalist club.
they are both proud of their histories
when/where did i add a negative connentation?
im just surprised how many southerners proffess to be fans of the historically 'loyalist side'.
how many belfast loyalists would cheer for derry or rovers? :D
Its a bit of pot calling the kettle black here.
What about Rangers players getting boo;s
in Landsdown, even though they are eastern european
Yeah but we can discount international fans from this, most of them support that Irish club in Britain :confused:, they don't have a clue!
Fair enough Derry are a club with a majority of nationalist support but I have never heard any sectarian chants at the Brandy. EL fans having a soft touch for teams like Linfield, Glens e.t.c saddens me but it doesn't suprise me.
In the Irish League i would follow Glentoran but also Carrick Rangers
Strabane doesnt have a league club cause the town has Finn Harps just up the road and the crowd would head there, even a small minority to Derry
Doesnt need a IL club with those clubs so close