Its a nasty merry-go-round that we are on because if we lose to ScotlandQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
The Armenia game again becomes more about should be be sacked or not if we don't win.
I think he is safe regardless even two loses
Its a nasty merry-go-round that we are on because if we lose to ScotlandQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
The Armenia game again becomes more about should be be sacked or not if we don't win.
I think he is safe regardless even two loses
Scotland will be a real test now. Bring it on.
Weather was atrocious last night. It's forecast to be a lot better on saturday.
Surely not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Shots was 23-3Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I know Scotland are a decent side but when the stats read 23 shots to 3 that should tell you Ukraine obviously weren’t playing properly, even Armenia gave Scotland more of a fight during the summer!
all the stuff i read in the brit press has said scotland were superb. considering that performance scotland had last night, what do we think would be a decent result for ireland? is a draw a positive result?
A win. I don’t see how a draw would be a positive result as it would still leave us on thin ice when it comes to staying in league BQuote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Now obviously if we are losing with 5 minutes to go I’d bite you’re hand off for a draw but pre match the target has to be a win.
Im not saying its right but I think he gets euro 2024 matter what happens. We could lose 3-0 to Scotland and 0-2 to Armenia and he won't be sacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
I agree
Yes, I'd say so. I'd compare it to an away qualifier.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
It was an odd game. Soaking wet. Boring first half, or at least what I saw of it. Scotland upped the tempo in the second half and Ukraine didn't respond though they nearly nicked a few opportunities on the break that they botched. But Scotland's goal when it came was almost inevitable. They really got the bit between their teeth and missed some great chances. McGinn's opener was mildly controversial, winning the ball back quite physically. I thought it was fair but I'd have expected most international refs to favour the defender. Then they got two identical goals from corners. Bad marking and nobody on the post.
Ukraine really looked like they were on holidays tbh.
There was no great finesse in Scotland's play. Thompson got forward a lot which you'd hope Cullen will keep an eye on. Their midfield took control by pressing aggressively. I'd be disappointed if we conceded so much dominance.
The FAI have clearly had a very different view from the Kenny supporters throughout his reign. They wouldn't have included the break clause in his contract if it was the case that him continuing was a certainty. It's set up that way so that they can let him go at no cost after the Nations League if they want to. So if we get 0 or 1 points from the two games I think it's safe to say he's gone. I think the public mood would change in that case anyway. After all, we've only won one game of note during his entire time in charge, and even that was at home to the persistent bottlers that are Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I think at this stage a return of 0/1 point from these two games would be very hard to defend - but I guess then again we've thought that before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Is there 100% a break clause after the armenia game?? Because that is differentQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
After nearly four years in post, two more poor results/performances would simply be indicative of it being a case of 'one step forward and two steps back', with no real, demonstrative progress being made.
It's not even as if he can say 'it's a very young team, I'm building towards Euro 2024' because his team and squad selections continue to be be quite conservative, reliant on a core of players near or over thirty. And his recall of an ageing, injury-prone Brady, who hasn't started more than 15 league games in a season since 2016/17, looks downright regressive.
hardly. hes playing in a new positionQuote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
Who are his options for LWB? McClean, Stevens and Brady? You've got Manning and Scales, both of whom I think are better at LCB. Manning played last season in that LCB and this season, he's play LWB but it's a position where we're weak. Kenny's 21s had the likes of Dara Leahy, Trev Clarke, Thomas O'Connor, Kam Ledwidge, Tyreke Wilson playing at left-back (all 98/99 except Ledwidge). None are anywhere close to selection. The previous campaign had Danny Kane there and the current campaign has Joel Bagan (concussed) and Tayo Adaramola (playing 23s) or Andy Lyons, similarly, none close to selection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
Greg Cunningham is probably the next up after Scales and Manning and that speaks volumes. His squads have had more 21s eligible players in them than any side in Europe (last time i checked - Luxembourg where the only team close with 1 less). The side that beat Scotland had 4 u21 starters and Bazunu, Idah and Omobadele were missing from the squad due to injury. Plus you've also got another 2 lads who have been in squads (Connolly, Ebosele) and you've got a bunch of lads from the previous 21s group who have graduated to seniors and are squad regulars (Kelleher, Travers, O'Shea, Molumby)
Night and day from previous managers.
There's still a lack of depth in certain areas, left back, midfield in particular and you can't create players from nothing - but overall, the turnover of the squad has been huge
I'd agree with that. He hasn't just gone back to the older heads by choice. They are there because we have nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Now you could also argue that any other manager taking us through this transition would have brought in the same younger lads as they are currently the only options as well.
Do people see genuine alternatives out there for any position? Should he just throw unprepared lads in or should he add them in around experience? I favour the latter. But I also think he has to do that by necessity.
I'd certainly have liked to have seen McNamara brought in before now for a look. As a natural right wing back who is strong defensively he might have given us the option to switch Doherty to the left. I'm not convinced we can rely on Coleman as a starter anymore so that leaves us with Doherty as a stick on for RWB and then we need someone else on the left.
Or we're finally ran by a competent CEO and see things like this as mandatory now for all contracts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I think he would be sacked in the minds of the supporters, you just can't lose to Armenia at home, get relegated and have a cover story that would sound in any way convincing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
In any event, Ukraine were powder puff at Hampden,not a patch on their previous performances and according to the Scots' record, they will blow it just when they think they have it sorted out.
I fancy at least a well earned draw in an entertaining game.
After coming out of the ground at the end of the Scotland match I sensed a real buzz about the place. Then I came on here.......
No 'ifs' and 'buts' about it - relegation should be a sackable offence.
Thank god someone said it. F*ck me this is depressingQuote:
Originally Posted by lofty9
It's only a small thing and maybe Kenny will be fully vidicated, but I thought dropping Manning and Ebosele in favour of going back to Robbie Brady, looked like a retrograde move, especially when you consider that McClean turns 34 before the end of the season and Stevens (32) is becoming increasingly injury-prone.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Manning (26) has been playing regularly and well at wingback this season, winning praise from his manager for his performances. Unlike you, I don't see him as a natural centre-half, but you would have thought his versatility and technical ability would have counted in his favour. Apparently not.
As another poster suggested, the retirements/career decline of a number of players from the O'Neill/McCarthy eras has meant that the average age of the squad has dropped almost by default. New players have had to be brought in to plug the holes. Kelleher's 24 next month, Travers, O'Shea, and Molumby are 23, so not exactly kids now. The more youthful profile of the team that played Scotland seemed to work and I hope we continue along that path.
This isn't a particular criticism of Kenny, who's been better than some of his predecessors, but sometimes I wish we were a bit braver and more proactive in identifying talent early and backing players. For example, Wales, following a long-term strategy, recently called up 17-year-old Luke Harris of Fulham after just 45 minutes of first-team football. Why? Because they've been able to recognise his ability early on and have had the courage of their convictions.
By contrast, it's been clear for several years that Nathan Collins is an outstanding talent and yet he only made his competitive debut in the last round of fixtures shortly before sealing a £20+ million move. Could he have been given his chance a bit earlier?
I think we could have been a little bit braver. Given how poor we've been over the last number of years I don't think we'd be risking a lot.
There was a time many years ago when it was said about the English Rugby Squad ( back a few eras ) that it was harder to get out of the squad that in to it ~ ~ It seems at times this could be said of Irish teams / squads down trough the years ~ ~ The treatment of Seamus Coleman by Trappatoni was bordering on the bizarre ~ ~ The treatment of Matt Doherty by Martin O’Neill was along the same lines.
Just looking at the Nations League tables "as they stand" tonight, I would be a lot less confident of securing a play off place for the Euro's if we don't qualify directly, than I was up to now.
If you look at the B path, it looks like the four group winners will be Scotland, Isreal, Bosnia, Norway... hardly locks to qualify directly.. maybe one of the 4 might, so that would close off getting into the B path play off
Currently we're in third place, so if we don't improve on that, one of Ukraine, Iceland, Montenegro or Serbia, would displace a direct qualifying team from the top four, if they didn't qualify, and you couldn't see the four of them being likely to go up either
Plus, if we remain in 3rd, those four would be ahead of us in going up to the A path play off, should less than 4 of the A group teams make it..
So I think to have any chance of the "play off" safety net.. we're going to have to win the two games this week... or qualify directly
The other "as it stands" seedings look like this
Pot 1.
Croatia, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany
Pot 2
Austria, Czech Republic, Switzerland, England, Poland, Wales, Scotland, Norway, Bosnia, Isreal,
Pot 3
Ukraine, Ireland, Iceland, Albania, Armenia, Montenegro, Finland, Romania, Sweden, Serbia,
Pot 4
Slovenia, Turkey, Luxembourg, Greece, Kosovo, Kazakhstan, Azerbijan, Georgia, Macedonia, Bulgaria
So you could be looking at a right potential disastrous group there
Beguim, England, Georgia... arrgghhhh
Or, Denmark, Isreal, Kosovo
The maths of it is probably better than you realise. Basically - if we come third we?re ranked somewhere between 25th to 28th. 20 teams will qualify automatically. How many of those teams 20 teams will be in the top 28 as opposed to the bottom 25 - about 18 or 19 or 20. So as a result, the 8 playoff spots will go to the lads who didn?t qualify. If all qualifiers are from the top 28, then all unqualified 3rd place teams will enter a playoff. If one team outside that group gets in, 3 of 4 will qualify. Last time I think Turkey were the only qualifier outside that group for example. So in that context, as long as you weren?t the worst 3rd placed side, you?d make the playoff
Germany are also ahead of us, so that probably pushes us up one more spot?
I know if you read the list of names, you think, not a lot of definite qualifiers there but if the League A lads all qualify then you only need a handful of the others to qualify
I?d take:
Hungary
Israel
Ireland
Luxembourg
Someone in our pot is going to get a heavyweight first seed plus England in their group and it's going to be over for them before it starts. We just have to hope that team isn't us.
We're nowhere near the top 16 teams in Europe so if we don't qualify for Euro 2024 that's probably that for us in terms of major finals until 2028 at the earliest.
France, Poland or Portugal could be in Pot 2 as well, so it's not just a 1-in-10 change of drawing England we have to worry about. Though we could get Hungary as a first seed - they've been in great form lately, but you'd still figure we'd have much more of a chance against them than against any of the other top seeds.
The Scots are very confident ahead of today's game anyway - they seem convinced they're going to get a performance after what happened in Dublin, maybe they're right but hopefully not.
Some talk of maybe being able to rest the likes of Tierney and one or two more for this one to keep them fresh for the more difficult Ukraine game.
If football was won based on blind optimism Scotland would be promoted in June.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I wouldn?t want Poland but I wouldn?t exactly place them in the same category as Portugal or England (I don?t think France will get relegated).Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Yeah, probably right on that in fairness.
I expect to be none the wiser about Kenny's abilities or the level of talent in the team after these two games. That's part of the entertainment factor with this past few years under Kenny though... no idea what we'll get... but all the time young players are getting a chance and building experience (and being forgiven mistakes and medicore moments).. and the overall play still feels like an improvement on some of the turgid dependability of previous generations of the Irish team. Can't make head nor tail of it though. Looking forward to both matches.
SK seems a little off going by that interview just now. Teetchy. Hmm. Not sure what to expect tonight.
Already a fair bit more direct than usual, which is interesting.
Scotland more composed than us early doors
At least he got that in the net, eventually.
What a finish from Egan!
Hello!
Slightly against the run of play, but a great finish from Egan.
(Quiet on here tonight)