Anybody like a poll on this, to stick with SK or change manager at this point ? YBIG ( yes, I know ) have one running and it is running at almost 80% in favour of sticking with him, which did surprise me as 160+ have now voted in it.
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Anybody like a poll on this, to stick with SK or change manager at this point ? YBIG ( yes, I know ) have one running and it is running at almost 80% in favour of sticking with him, which did surprise me as 160+ have now voted in it.
How about after the friendly tomorrow night?Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Anyone change their minds on keeping him if we are beaten tomorrow?
Tomorrow is a friendly against a continental champion. I thought we'd lose it before Saturday. If we were absolutely thrashed I might start calling for his head but otherwise I'd be of the cynical viewpoint that there is no point changing things now.
Tomorrow's friendly game won't really have much bearing on my thoughts at this stage.
No. But I might change my mind if we win and play well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
That is still theoretically possible isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Paul, you have until 8:30 this evening to provide the requested quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
OK, let’s replace Kenny.
But with whom? Robbie Keane? Don’t make me laugh – that’s like treating the gig as work experience, and we can’t afford to have someone learning on the job. If being on payroll already is a qualification, give it to Vera Pauw - she’s more experienced than Robbie anyway. Chris Hughton? Not a chance – his stock would have to plummet monstrously. Some Premiership has-been whose stock has fallen so low they can’t get anything else? Or someone who can’t get work in the SPL, Championship? Tell me how that’s an improvement.
And what’s the goal anyway? Anybody who genuinely believed we had a snowball’s chance in a Qatari heatwave of getting to Qatar has spent too long in the sun. (Blind optimism and a dollop of faith, I can accept – it’s the affliction of the diehard fan.)
Somebody on another thread said that replacing Kenny now would be like cosmetic surgery on a terminal patient. {Edit: credit where it's due, Comic Book Guy} I’d say it’s more like cutting off a gangrenous limb, slapping on a Band-aid and hoping it’ll grow back better than ever. The problems in the game go far deeper than who the manager is – player development from youth up, domestic senior league versus slave traders and local fiefdoms, potential legal charges against former FAI employees (presumption of innocence noted and all that) a bankrupt association… We’re reaping the consequence of decades of neglect and, if not actual criminal corruption or corporate malfeasance, then certainly unethical or incompetent leadership. We are a decade away from stability. That’s the goal. Every manager we’ve had since Charlton has been tasked with diverting our attention from the administrative 5hitshow of a dysfunctional FAI. We’ve been bought off using our own credit with inflatable hammers and ole ole. Kenny is the first where the 5hit has been laid bare, and the debt’s been called in.
Back to the pitch, it will take a replacement for Kenny six or seven games to get a handle on the players available and formations, and all we’ll be doing in the meantime is kicking the can of potential improvements down the road. So, leave Kenny in situ.
The best case in that scenario is that something clicks tomorrow, and in a year’s time with Parrott, Idah, Connolly, Knight, Molumby, Bazunu, Cullen and O’Shea ripping it up as a golden generation, all into double figures for caps, we’ll feel slightly embarrassed to read back over these threads. Who wouldn’t wish for that?
Worst case, we’re stuck with a manager out of his depth while the FAI gets its house in order, and we go back to the wilderness years of the seventies for a decade.
An in-between scenario is that Kenny’s era limps with a few victories to the end of this campaign at which point he goes, having excised the deadwood senior pros who are currently lingering like a fart in a lift (McClean, Brady, Hendrick, I’m looking at you in particular) and brought through a younger team, with most players in at least a Championship level team (in England or anywhere else) because they’ve been exposed to international football. Not 'mission accomplished', but the core of a rebuilt, reasonably experienced team with ten years’ growth potential for the next manager. A qualified success – but I’d accept that.
The FAI need to work out what their long-term goals are, then work out if they have the right man for the job. TBH, I don't think there is any plan or goal for which we can't find a better option than Stephen Kenny, for half a million a year.
Certainly, a huge amount of our problems stem from underage neglect and a lack of stability, which can't be blamed on Kenny or other senior managers. But those issues can be addressed separately to the issue of whether the senior manager is getting the most out of the players at his disposal, or making progress towards doing so.
I don't think Kenny is doing either of those things.
Paul McGrath said this guy needs to be replaced , he campaigned for Neill Lennon. I like that idea.
Paul Lambert is someone I would like toó he tries to play good grassroots footie in Norwich was tremendous. I like Mark Hughes too! And the Southampton coach if they fire him. What about Bilic? Good coach maybe the balkan-irish streetwise mèlange could be a great cooking. Then theres a new irish coach at St Mirren.
Those are the fellows I like. My biggest candidate will always be El Loco Bielsa or Brendan Rodgers.
I like Cesare Prandelli too. Dont know where he's at
How hard is it to add a link when you make random statements like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bielsa´s irish
Link.
The issue isn't that Stephen Kenny won't lead us to the World Cup. It's not even necessarily that we lost to Luxembourg. It's that we deservedly lost to Luxembourg - a team that, player for player are not in even our meagre weight class (even including the suddenly exalted striker with a princely two league goals to his name for Dynamo Kiev this season).
I don't think that the high water mark for this Irish side is likely to drown many people but I just can't see anything to suggest that Kenny is getting the best out of them. And that's an issue worth addressing. If people believe that he's the man to extract the most from these youngsters and turn them all into future legends that's an opinion certainly but I can't see why we wouldn't at least examine the possibility that there's someone else out there who could simultaneously pick Jason Knight, make us appear a little less turgid/harmless AND not get turned over by Luxembourg at home.
I will say though that if Neil Lennon is the solution we should just leave Kenny in situ. There are no words adequate for how far off the pulse you'd have to be to champion a man who spent this season proving conclusively that he possesses zero patience for youth or ability to get a little more out of mediocre players.
I, too, would feel ill if he were appointed. He's all wrong for the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
Ive been hunting around in my brain for the last few days to figure how I feel about things and this is it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Jesus Christ. After seeing how Lennon just handled Celtic he should never get another job in football let alone be linked to us.
I’d rather stick with Kenny and us falling into pot 5 than giving Lennon a shot.
Loyalists once threatened to give Lennon a Shot ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
I was wondering if someone would go there.....
Pains me to say it but Stephen is very far out of his depth. Would still rather him than someone like Lennon. A stoneage manager who would have us playing horrendous football, even if in the short term he might nab us a good result or two.
Neil Lennon, who has done sooooooooo much for Shane Duffy, Luca Connell, Jonathan Afolabi, Armstrong Okoflex, Lee O'Connor, Barry Coffey... Not even an argument to be had. Troll's gotta try harder.
Look, I think the forum unanimously agree that it's a bad idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
But the man you're calling a troll has earned the right to say any mad dog ****e he wants without being called names. He had enough of that growing up in this country.
I might change this opinion later today after the game but I was thinking about this on my way to work today (I probably need to get my life together).
At this point we we've tried almost every managerial type. The Old Legend in Trap, The ex player Staunton, successful club manager O'Neill, past glory manager McCarthy. There have been some partial success at times along the way but we are never happy, and its usually because we were shyte to watch and most fans always thought we could play better.
I dont know how often over the years I've heard that we should go back to Kerr. Its probably because he makes good points on tv at times. But I think if we get rid of Kenny now in years to come we will look back on it and say how unlucky he was. From players missing games and not even a home crowd to raise the team in any games, to the open goal misses in play offs, the penalty he should have got against Serbia. Yes its far from all down to bad luck but I wonder in years to come would we look back and say that he was trying to integrate new players who probably were 2 years from being ready and also had to deal with some older players who just werent good enough.
Probably a bit of a wandering thought but when there is no obvious alternative out there I think in the long run we are probably better off sticking with Kenny
This campaign is a write off so I think it's reasonable to let Kenny continue til the end. If there have been no signs of improvement then I'd imagine there's a clause for his removal.
At the moment it really feels like we could go through the whole group without a win, but let's see what happens.
I think the last line sums it up. There's a lot of people saying surely there's someone who could do what Kenny is trying to do only better, but there's no obvious candidate that would take the job, so for now we stick it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
And when we are in pot 4 for the next qualifiers we'll have an even harder job.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
We were in the fourth pot for the World Cup in 2018, and got to the play offs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_F...(UEFA)#SeedingQuote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
I'd stick with for now, on the proviso that he throw the kids in. He needs to be told.
I know he's in dire need of a result, but selecting the likes of Long, Horgan and McClean in a meaningless friendly is simply counterproductive and pointless.
People would be far more forgiving of this appalling run of results if young lads were gaining experience and there were some sort of prospect of a future payoff.
And yet Horgan set up McClean for our only goal, while Long got an assist against Serbia.
Those guys have a place in the squad. I'd rather they didn't, but our squad isn't strong enough to cast them aside.
I'd maintain an experienced core of players; Randolph, Coleman, Duffy, Doherty and one or two others, but in a situation where we have no realistic chance of even competing for qualification, playing lads who have next to nothing to offer us going forward, in a pointless match, that shouldn't really even have taken place during a pandemic, makes little to no sense to me.
We need to be thinking about the next qualifying campaign I think now.
I'm happier that Horgan and McClean combined to earn us a draw, than that Manning and Parrott didn't combine and we lost to be honest.
Not everything's about the future. The present is important too.
And the new guys can learn a lot from the more experienced players.
I know what you mean, and I did make the point that it was important to maintain an experienced core, because, as you say, the younger players can learn from these guys.
But come on, what good is scrapping a draw against Qatar in a meaningless closed-door training game? What does it really achieve?
I don't think it was a closed-doors training game. It was a covid friendly.
What does it achieve to draw against the Asian champions? More than to lose against them while once again not scoring, for starters.
Would you accept losing ten games in a row if we fielded no one over 22? I wouldn't. That's not development. There's a balance to be struck. Kenny had a squad with lots of young players who he trusted (to no effect) in competitive matches, and then rested for the meaningless friendly that would have been their third match in 6 days. Burning out kids and getting them injured and demoralised is not the way to develop anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
Agreed. Young players don't learn from playing games. They learn from playing games alongside experienced players, and by being around squads and in hotels and all that. There's a lot to be gained by sitting round listening to the old war stories of guys talking about things like fighting their way back to get to Euro 2016 after getting beat in Celtic Park.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
None as a manager, as we all know, but Stan had plenty of success with Liverpool and Villa as a player (talking about playing career as well). Boils down to the fact that all those mentioned had a boat load of know how as players or managers or both, but as soon as they walk in the door to manage the Irish team, they have all become clueless. I don't buy it - the blame lies elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
There is very little correlation between being a good player and a good manager. Staunton was a gamble and a flop, and it was everything to do with himself. His non-playing career after the Ireland job is absolutely laughable next to your position on this, Mark.
The reality is we’ve had 8 members of his 21s side in the current squad. We were missing the likes of Kelleher, Collins, Taylor, Smallbone, Hodge, Finn, Idah and Obafemi through injury. There weren’t any players that you could reasonably call up and would do themselves justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
You’ve got 3 games in 6 days. You’ve got to use your full squad across the window, otherwise players will burnout and injure. As far as I remember, those 3 lads didn’t start a game before Qatar. Meanwhile Molumby, Knight, O’Shea and Bazunu have been integrated into the senior panel.
If you’re arguing they shouldn’t be in the squad, the alternatives to Shane Long are Scott Hogan and a recently injured Sean Maguire. Kenny’s 21s had Idah (injured), Obafemi (injured), Connolly (injured) and Parrott (in squad). The previous age group (96-97), Reece Greco Cox was the main man. He’s playing league 2 or non-league now.
You need to balance opportunities for young players to shine with experience and quality, and in general, thrusting a player into a game before they’re ready for it does little for their development. In the long term, Travers, Parrott and Coventry may be great ireland players but right now, they’re not quite ready. So if you were to call up Anselmo Garcia McNulty or Kevin Zefi or Evan Ferguson or Will Ferry or Shane Flynn, and use them, we’d probably get tonked and destroy their self belief in the process...
I’m not sure what happens next. I’d normally have a position on what I’d like to happen next but I’m genuinely stumped…
1 win in 15 is embarrassing but can we even afford a decent upgrade?
Doherty and Coleman should have stayed in the positions they played in vs Portugal.
The Parrott experiment didn’t work.
His substitution selection needs major improvement.
I’ve seen a few comments on social media begging for Chris Hughton but he’s had a woeful run so far with Forest. Fans have turned against him and the football is atrocious.