Treaty United

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Cork was the ultimate phoenix club in fairness.

Derry - another phoenix club - joined in 85.

Bray and Longford also joined in 85 and while they're small, they're a step up from Cabo, Monaghan, etc

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Longford joined along with Cork in 1984.

Where are the large population centres that don't already have an LOI team ? It's just Limerick, which will presumably get sorted for next year, and apart from that it's just small towns. Even somewhere like Navan only has 35,000 people. We need to be realistic about the fact that football is primarily an urban sport, and that small towns/population centres are extremely unlikely to be able to sustain a team in a very competitive professional environment. Sligo and Finn Harps perform miracles to remain competitive (with Harps not doing so consistently). The other competitive teams in the league are from relatively large population centres. And the other teams that aren't from large population centres just aren't consistently competitive.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Longford joined along with Cork in 1984.

Where are the large population centres that don't already have an LOI team ? It's just Limerick, which will presumably get sorted for next year, and apart from that it's just small towns. Even somewhere like Navan only has 35,000 people. We need to be realistic about the fact that football is primarily an urban sport, and that small towns/population centres are extremely unlikely to be able to sustain a team in a very competitive professional environment. Sligo and Finn Harps perform miracles to remain competitive (with Harps not doing so consistently). The other competitive teams in the league are from relatively large population centres. And the other teams that aren't from large population centres just aren't consistently competitive.

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In theory Carlow should be able to support a LOI side. There's a decent enough junior league, for such a small county, there's 25,000+ in the town, and the only dedicated football college course in Ireland within Carlow IT. The college itself already has facilities well capable of hosting LOI games, especially if they used the college GAA pitch as their ground.

But it's been done to death a million times over now, this discussion. It's not always about population, it's about location, and how you interact with the community. Any club within a reasonable sized area should be able to do it.

Will Treaty United be playing in Market's field ?

Yeah they confirmed that in a press release Neish.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

In theory Carlow should be able to support a LOI side. There's a decent enough junior league, for such a small county, there's 25,000+ in the town, and the only dedicated football college course in Ireland within Carlow IT. The college itself already has facilities well capable of hosting LOI games, especially if they used the college GAA pitch as their ground.

But it's been done to death a million times over now, this discussion. It's not always about population, it's about location, and how you interact with the community. Any club within a reasonable sized area should be able to do it.

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Carlow IT should have a team in the LOI, the have facilities and the college scholarship already.

dont see what the big issue is with having a fan base for a new club, if you can finically afford a team in the LOI without a large fan base why should it matter? if a club is run right it can grow its fan base surly ? its not goin happen over night so it shouldnt effect another club, unless its YOLA and wexford but thats a sperate issue they haven openly said they are looking at replacing .

Some company called Irish Sea FC Ltd has expressed an interest it seems.

https://twitter.com/forgottenclubs/s...737976320?s=19

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Originally Posted by Dr. football

dont see what the big issue is with having a fan base for a new club, if you can finically afford a team in the LOI without a large fan base why should it matter? if a club is run right it can grow its fan base surly ? its not goin happen over night so it shouldnt effect another club, unless its YOLA and wexford but thats a sperate issue they haven openly said they are looking at replacing .

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Its not that a fan base matters as such in the short term, but long term survival definitely yes.

Plus its fans that make the league the league, so anyways to add a new group is always welcomed. If they have no fan base, it's much more like a junior team playing LOI.

Of course you cant expect any team to start in LOI to suddenly have fans. Its a long game, over generation or so. Hopefully clubs get tsupport to develop a fan base.

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Originally Posted by Longfordian

Some company called Irish Sea FC Ltd has expressed an interest it seems.

https://twitter.com/forgottenclubs/s...737976320?s=19

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That's the same company that was involved with the takeover talks at Cabinteely a few months ago.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Yeah they confirmed that in a press release Neish.

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Cheers, thought i had read i somewhere but then couldn't find it

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

That's the same company that was involved with the takeover talks at Cabinteely a few months ago.

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They actually tried Limerick first but couldn't come to an agreement on the valuation (presumably paud for some reason thought it was greater than zero)

The coach at the head of it basically comes across as a bit of a head the ball who buys clubs so he can manage them.

Which brings me to a curious detail.

The company is apparently registered in cork.

The homebase of beloved ex Limerick owner and sometimes manager Daniel Drew.

The same Daniel Drew who has been helping paud with his underage team expenses this year.

And now we have apparent word of two expressions of interest in the first division from Limerick

The thick plottens.

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Originally Posted by thebronze14

Let's face it. There's nowhere that isn't currently in the league that's going to have decent support. These teams be no worse supported than some of the teams already there. Some of the teams in the NI Championship have little support but their league is improving. Good to see St Francis looking to get back in. Until there is a proper pyramid structure this is as good as we're going to get

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That's just straight pessimism.
The league has been neglected for years now. With a bit of planning and consideration there's no reason we can't have a strong first division. The long term aim should be a division with no amateur teams

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Originally Posted by GUFCghost

That's just straight pessimism.
The league has been neglected for years now. With a bit of planning and consideration there's no reason we can't have a strong first division. The long term aim should be a division with no amateur teams

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That would be brilliant but you're right I am pessimistic. Sadly Irish people seem to just jump aboard the bandwagon and without future attitudal shifts sadly this will prevail. Letting a couple of extra teams with little fanbase in isn't going to harm the league longterm I'd say as long as they are sustainable in whatever model they go with

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Its not that a fan base matters as such in the short term, but long term survival definitely yes.

Plus its fans that make the league the league, so anyways to add a new group is always welcomed. If they have no fan base, it's much more like a junior team playing LOI.

Of course you cant expect any team to start in LOI to suddenly have fans. Its a long game, over generation or so. Hopefully clubs get tsupport to develop a fan base.

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That’s may point really, let them try start if it don’t work out noting lost!

Whats with the names ,Yola fc,Treaty utd more like a gymnastic and basketball teams .are supporters going to identify with those names ,dont think so.

YOLA.

You Only Live ... Again?

Perfect name for half the clubs in the league, in fairness.

(And yes, I know Yola's a dialect. Can't throw a stone over a wall in some parts of Wexford without hitting a distant cousin.)

These Irish Sea FC lads are involved in Dublin anyway, and are going to be revealing their club crest in the next couple of days..with a Dublin landmark.

What's the bets we see a Dublin City FC again out of Home Farm?

They're the same folks who own NJ Teamsters in the states, starting out in the third tier of American football next year.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

These Irish Sea FC lads are involved in Dublin anyway, and are going to be revealing their club crest in the next couple of days..with a Dublin landmark.

What's the bets we see a Dublin City FC again out of Home Farm?

They're the same folks who own NJ Teamsters in the states, starting out in the third tier of American football next year.

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Molly Malone statue?!

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Originally Posted by thebronze14

That would be brilliant but you're right I am pessimistic. Sadly Irish people seem to just jump aboard the bandwagon and without future attitudal shifts sadly this will prevail. Letting a couple of extra teams with little fanbase in isn't going to harm the league longterm I'd say as long as they are sustainable in whatever model they go with

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But the point is - they never are sustainable. Kildare County, Sporting Fingal, St Francis, St James's Gate, Monaghan Town, Kilkenny City, NewcastleWest, Thurles Town, Home Farm, Mervue United, Salthill Devon etc etc etc. All joined the league, all had very limited support, and all ended up being unsustainable. The only clubs to join in the last 40 years that have remained in existence consistently are Derry, Cork, Bray and Longford. The first 3 all have large populations. And all 4 had a certain level of actual or potential support from within their community from before they joined to tap into (Longford had cup runs in the 1960s etc). Cobh is a great wee football town - but even they crashed out of the league for a few years because things just weren't working out.

And it's wrong to say that it doesn't harm the league when clubs join and fold, as it really does. It makes us look like a joke shop of a league and a financial mess. And it doubtless deters other clubs from joining when they see what a revolving door of failure the LOI is.

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

YOLA.

You Only Live ... Again?

Perfect name for half the clubs in the league, in fairness.

(And yes, I know Yola's a dialect. Can't throw a stone over a wall in some parts of Wexford without hitting a distant cousin.)

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Haha, this is very true. As an example, I have a common south Wexford surname, in my primary school class of, I think, 22 students, 4 of us had the same surname, but I wasn't directly related to any of the other 3!

Going further off topic, I grew up in Yola country (even spent a childhood summer working in the Yola farmstead cafe), there's a lot of colloquialisms in South Wexford that come directly from the Yola dialect, I remember by Grandad and Great Grandad using a lot of them and some are still in common use today (quare being the most obvious example). South Wexford accent is still quite distinctive, closer to norther Irish than most other Southern accents, when we were away with the Youth Club at events wed regularly be asked what part of the north we were from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yola_people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_and_Bargy_dialect

Anyway, terrible name for a football club and will draw in zero extra support.

Kind of like the names Treaty and Yola. In fairness they aren't much worse than the Irish clichés like Shamrock and St. Patrick's.

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

(And yes, I know Yola's a dialect. Can't throw a stone over a wall in some parts of Wexford without hitting a distant cousin.)

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Then stop throwing the stones you mentalist!

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

But the point is - they never are sustainable. Kildare County, Sporting Fingal, St Francis, St James's Gate, Monaghan Town, Kilkenny City, NewcastleWest, Thurles Town, Home Farm, Mervue United, Salthill Devon etc etc etc. All joined the league, all had very limited support, and all ended up being unsustainable. The only clubs to join in the last 40 years that have remained in existence consistently are Derry, Cork, Bray and Longford. The first 3 all have large populations. And all 4 had a certain level of actual or potential support from within their community from before they joined to tap into (Longford had cup runs in the 1960s etc). Cobh is a great wee football town - but even they crashed out of the league for a few years because things just weren't working out.

And it's wrong to say that it doesn't harm the league when clubs join and fold, as it really does. It makes us look like a joke shop of a league and a financial mess. And it doubtless deters other clubs from joining when they see what a revolving door of failure the LOI is.

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Cobh a small town with limited support, and this year with no fans at all has turned a profit!

It’s about how clubs are managed off the field if they fail or succeed! Cork city had min 2000 fans and high transfer fees received and still ran in to financial troubles!

Should be no reason a club can’t be a part time club in the 1st division playing games on a Saturday evening can’t break even every year.

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

Can't throw a stone over a wall in some parts of Wexford without hitting a distant cousin.)

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We get it, Wexfordians are inbred as hell.

And that's before you consider the implications of Bástardstown and Horetown.

To veer dangerously close to the original topic, I wouldn't be alone I'd say in having absolutely zero interest in supporting anything involving the ammoral, blithering POS who ran the previous iteration of the club into the ground.

It really is Treaty or bust for senior football in Limerick at the moment, the stench off the corpse of Limerick FC is gone beyond hiding.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

To veer dangerously close to the original topic, I wouldn't be alone I'd say in having absolutely zero interest in supporting anything involving the ammoral, blithering POS who ran the previous iteration of the club into the ground.

It really is Treaty or bust for senior football in Limerick at the moment, the stench off the corpse of Limerick FC is gone beyond hiding.

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Who are the people behind Treaty United? Is it fans of the previous Limerick club, new investors or peple from a junior club looking to step up?

My guess is since Treaty United have a team in WNL (and a bit of buzz around them) they are in a prime position to enter the league.

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Originally Posted by redobit

Kind of like the names Treaty and Yola. In fairness they aren't much worse than the Irish clichés like Shamrock and St. Patrick's.

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I've personally been surprised for years that there aren't major clubs in England named 'St George's Dragons' and 'Red Rose Rovers'.

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Originally Posted by Dr. football

Cobh a small town with limited support, and this year with no fans at all has turned a profit!

It’s about how clubs are managed off the field if they fail or succeed! Cork city had min 2000 fans and high transfer fees received and still ran in to financial troubles!

Should be no reason a club can’t be a part time club in the 1st division playing games on a Saturday evening can’t break even every year.

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Have Cobh really completed their annual accounts already ? What sort of financial year do they run on ?

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

I've personally been surprised for years that there aren't major clubs in England named 'St George's Dragons' and 'Red Rose Rovers'.

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or the Welsh with Leek United or Daffodil FC, Scots have form with Celtic, Hibs and a very slightly dyslexic mixed Irish-Scots effort with Partick Thistle. Dont know what Conn Murray is thinking being involved in this, though his time as County Manager of LouthCoCo and Limerick City wouldnt inspire! The people behind Treaty FC maybe waiting or hoping for Limerick FC to disappear and then rebrand!?

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Who are the people behind Treaty United? Is it fans of the previous Limerick club, new investors or peple from a junior club looking to step up?

My guess is since Treaty United have a team in WNL (and a bit of buzz around them) they are in a prime position to enter the league.

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I believe (and I'm open to correction) that there's a few different minds behind Treaty United and that at least a couple of them expressed an interest in getting involved in the Limerick FC circus only to be turned off by the... eh... rancid smell of the whole organisation as it wound to collapse.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

I've personally been surprised for years that there aren't major clubs in England named 'St George's Dragons' and 'Red Rose Rovers'.

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But there are teams like Arsenal, named for a munitions factory in Woolwich in South London and Crystal Palace, named for a giant green house that burned down twice.

Albion's about it as far as jingoistic names go in England. Hotspur. Plymouth Argyle apparently named for a Scottish regiment stationed there at one point. But, hey, don't go giving them any ideas ... We wouldn't be too far from Brighton Brexiteers, Rorke's Drift Rotherham, Stoke Spitfires...

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

The people behind Treaty FC maybe waiting or hoping for Limerick FC to disappear and then rebrand!?

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I'd say that's exactly it. I see a lot of people getting hung up on the name, but it's not something I'd consider a dealbreaker.

Treaty United were set up as a sort of lifeboat for people that were involved with Limerick FC before pat stopped paying people

The coaching staff from underage up to senior was basically copy pasted across from Limerick FC. Some good people, some people I don't know anything about and some people that I wouldn't have in the way personally.

At board level you've got Con Murray who might suprise me and be good for something but I doubt it, Dave mahedy is knocking around there somewhere which is good as it's a link to ul, a couple of fellas from the trust, various women's football people and a few people that I don't know who they are.

On the name they originally tried to call themselves Limerick United without checking who owned the name (it was Pat O'Sullivan) so in a panic it was changed to treaty United and they've been putting the word around the place that the reason is pat o sullivan owns the word Limerick. Which is of course complete and utter ****** designed to cover day ones mistake.

Which isn't a great start we're a half an hour out of Limerick FC and already the arse covering and spoof spreading begins.

I'm also skeptical enough because of some of the people still involved and the apparent complete lack of anyone with proper money.

But the first division is crap everyone gets a go at the playoffs and there's enough ex Limerick FC players knocking around the league that should come back for cheap.

It's going to be Tommy Barrett managing Tommy Barretts team in the first division.

Vive la revolution!!

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

But there are teams like Arsenal, named for a munitions factory in Woolwich in South London and Crystal Palace, named for a giant green house that burned down twice.

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Crystal Palace and Arsenal aren't exactly English cultural clichés though. Shelbourne and Bohs have unusual names too, but they haven't been mentioned in this discussion - as neither of them are Irish clichés.

What Ireland really needs in a new club is AFC Leprauchan.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Crystal Palace and Arsenal aren't exactly English cultural clichés though. Shelbourne and Bohs have unusual names too, but they haven't been mentioned in this discussion - as neither of them are Irish clichés.

What Ireland really needs in a new club is AFC Leprauchan.

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But Micheal D was Galway chairman...

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Crystal Palace and Arsenal aren't exactly English cultural clichés though. Shelbourne and Bohs have unusual names too, but they haven't been mentioned in this discussion - as neither of them are Irish clichés.

What Ireland really needs in a new club is AFC Leprauchan.

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I dunno, England and war have tended to go hand in hand throughout history. I think extratime beat me to that joke by a couple of weeks though.

I also wish we would spend less time comparing ourselves to England. There are plenty of leagues out there to draw inspiration from, and we can continue to develop our own culture. I see no issue with names like Treaty United, even if it wouldn't be my first choice.

I'll develop an opinion on Irish Sea FC when we learn more about them, for now I am pessimistic about their potential for success.

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

I dunno, England and war have tended to go hand in hand throughout history. I think extratime beat me to that joke by a couple of weeks though.

I also wish we would spend less time comparing ourselves to England. There are plenty of leagues out there to draw inspiration from, and we can continue to develop our own culture. I see no issue with names like Treaty United, even if it wouldn't be my first choice.

I'll develop an opinion on Irish Sea FC when we learn more about them, for now I am pessimistic about their potential for success.

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Treaty United sounds like the sort of name you'd find in a US Soccer team at the third or fourth tier there.

They will 100% change it to something else including Limerick. Guaranteed. It's just not a good name for Irish football.

Is it really that important?

Dublin City was hardly a good name for Irish football either.

Though I do agree that if they are successful, they will change to Limerick something alright.