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Mark Scanlon was NOT the only applicant for the job. He was one of three internal candidates and came through an interview process. Paranoid guff maybe the currency of football forums but it doesn't help any arguments.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-39371441.html
RH what I said is what I meant. If a ref, employee, member of an executive, et al is a known supporter of a club it will be drawn attention to by any other club, supporter or whomever, especially if there are conflicting issues. If a decision is made, one way or another then there is the damned if they do, damned if the dont situation eg as mentioned a home town ref 'proving' that they are not biased and getting heat from home fans or of course that the away team sees them as being home town biased. I wasnt focusing on SRFC as much as you would like to think that I was obsessing.
How individual clubs can be affected by someone whos remit is for the whole league? Well in principle that should happen, but not the way things have been in LoI or FAI over the years. I dont think it needs pointing out as you already know the M.O. of the FAI and that clubs feared sticking the head above the parapet. Fran Gavin in his role was the most often the point man rolled out. I dont think any one club was more or less harshly treated - there was a general contempt.
If it helps cool the tubes I will use a Dundalk specific possible example. Enda McGuill was elected president of LoI in the late 80's, probably an equivalent of the league director role today. The RoI senior side at that time usually stayed in the Nuremore Hotel and trained in Oriel Park, i'd be pretty sure that there was a fee for the use of Oriel Park. A number of underage internatials were also hosted. For the record I am not suggesting that Enda McGuill had any influence over this decision, I am saying that it could be insinuated IF someone had an agenda. I am not saying that Scanlon will do anything that could be deemed biased, but that he could face such accusations.
I certainly thought 'this could be interesting' and already it has, so cheers! Not by me alluding anything but by you making the assumption I was! I am a lot less machiavellian than you seem to think RH. I have thoughts on things, like yerself, and will express them, I shall debate opinions to the point of an empasse as you know. But I dont base an opinion on someones credibility, ability, impartiality in a job or judge them in advance based on their favoured football club. If i were to do that or think that everyone was anti 'my club' I'd never get through the day without being angry!
I may be critical one day but I may also be saying good job!!
So you're now admitting that you're talking about something you know nothing about, great.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
I specifically said similar field as they are not the exact same thing but there are very large and significant areas of crossover. That combined with a masters degree in the area makes him qualified by any stretch of the imagination. He's almost exactly what you'd put on a requirements page for the job.
Knowledge of the league
Degree in sports management or similar
Experience in coordinating large scale sporting competitions
So far you've demonstrated you don't know what job he did, what qualifications he had, what's involved in the new job. Yet you have an opinion on whether or not he's qualified? I've no idea how you've managed that. I wonder what on earth you could be basing that opinion on so considering what we've established you don't know...
That's a Premium article. Maybe you could paste the relevant bit here. Another journalist tweeted last week that Scanlon was the only applicant for the job. It depends on who you believe I suppose, and who's trying to spin what.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
I don't care very much for third level football, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
Maybe you'd put him on your page. He wouldn't be on mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
Large scale competitions? Would you stop. It's third level football / schools v LOI!
Again you're comparing third level to LOI. I couldn't care what job he did in third level football to be honest. It's irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
Whatever way you try to spin it, it was a sham process and sham appointment, but it clearly displays what the FAI continue to think of the LOI.
It should have been opened to outside applicants.
Its amazing how hatred can completely blind people to the facts
I don't know Scanlon so what are you on about now.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
We've gone from Niall Quinn being widely mentioned as the new LOI Director to Scanlon, who very few know, being appointed.
Quinn is full of bluff and I wouldn't have much time for him, but at least he'd be at the level you'd be looking at for this role.
For the record there are 1,500 primary and secondary schools affiliated with the FAI and there are 111 third level teams from 44 institutions . That's as large scale as it gets.
You can continue to dismiss this level competitions but like it or not the organisation of them are very similar to organising the LOI, the base structures are the same
We've established you haven't a clue what's involved in any of what you're talking about so your opinion is irrelevant. Bye.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
And we've established you're clearly biased because Scanlon is a Rovers man.
Hopefully he's not as biased towards your club in his role.
The only Mark Scanlon I know of is the one that cycled in the Tour De France over a decade ago ( the one from Sligo). If his namesake turns out to be as famous as him I will eat my hat!
In fairness though, RH has a point. You say Scanlon was hired purely because he was an internal candidate, but you admit you don't know about his qualifications or previous experience. You've asked what his previous role entails (which makes it hard for you to decide it's not relevant), and "Come on now" is your only response to his Master's Degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
There may be valid counter-arguments against Scanlon's appointment, but they're not the ones you've made.
How have you established RH's bias by the way?
Well he was hired because he was an internal candidate. That's what the FAI limited it to. That's hardly best practice in itself, is it, considering where the FAI are at right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I was aware he came from third level / schools. I know his name from recent years but I don't follow that level of football closely. He has a Sports Management degree, great. Does all that qualify a person to be LOI Director now? Is that the level we see the role as being at?
It's worrying that the FAI has just thrown it to someone from that background. Realistically, he's not going to be at a level or have the contacts to grow the league.
Who has actually been hired by the FAI in recent years to help develop the league? John McGuinness was about, doing very little, is he still around? Kieran Crowley does some stuff for the league on social media but he's always been dragged away to international teams. It seems like another appointment to tick a box but the person won't actually bring anything to the league.
Again, we've gone from Niall Quinn to Scanlon. Why not open it to outside applicants and get someone proper in to do it?
As for the bias, I doubt very much RH would be fighting Scanlon's corner as much if he wasn't a Rovers man.
I mean a lot of this is speculation of course, but if you're trying to prove a case, you need it to be watertight. I'm not sure yours is.
On the contrary, a bankrupt organisation reallocating staff rather than hiring more could well make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
I don't know what exactly the role entails - is it just the admin or does it involve corporate deals, etc - but the thing is you're basically saying he's not suitable (if I read you correctly). Why? Throwing out open questions (which neither he nor the FAI can answer, not being here) isn't really a way to make a case.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
Again though - why not? I think your criticism needs to be more constructive. What contacts would he need but not have, for example?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
Judging Scanlon based on other people is a bit harsh, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
I mean, you could end up being right - but it still wouldn't be a reasonable thing to do to judge someone based on who else the FAI have hired.
Again, possibly correct, but you've nothing to really back this up with.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
I think it might be a missed opportunity. What I mean is, his title could have been something like "Senior/Intermediate Football Director" with his remit to include expanding the Provincial League system to cover the entire country and establish some sort of promotion/relegation to the LOI First Division.
I log in expecting to see thousands of words of the floweriest prose dedicated to Franco as he shuffles off into a broom cupboard somewhere til retirement.
Instead reams of drivel from the usual drivellers
Forum poison is what it is Bill.
Or they could have called him "Magical Money Man Director" and he could have given every club 100 bajillionty EuroQuote:
Originally Posted by Bucket
Just as realistic.
Even better!
Whatever the finances, it's wrong to limit an important appointment such as this to internal applicant(s).Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Why was this position separated from Fran Gavin's role. Gavin remains as Competitions Director. Was it a case of taking the heat off Gavin and throwing "LOI Director" to Scanlon?
I would think it should include corporate deals and establishing/growing the brand of the league. There are other people to look after the admin, Hayes and Gavin. If it was only the admin, what's the point of the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Business contacts, the type Quinn would have. I wonder why Quinn appeared to run away from the role, given that he was widely mentioned for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Was just making the general point that other people have been hired to help the LOI, which seemed great at the time, but it didn't make any difference. I wasn't criticising Crowley, just pointing out he's not solely LOI. As for John McGuinness, where is he now?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The finances are very important.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
The FAI may have a plan to shed 100 staff, for example. (I'm making numbers up; it's the idea that's important). You don't do that by hiring new people. They may well have a hire freeze at the moment. It's not ideal, but it could well be the best thing for the organisation's finances at the moment.
So I don't know any of the answers to the above really.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
But if you don't either, then I don't see how you can draw conclusions on Scanlon's suitability for the role. And that's RH's point.
I don't see why I care to be honest?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
Again, you can't judge Scanlon based on "Where's John McGuinness"? That doesn't make any sense.
By your theory, Scanlon has only got the job because the FAI are broke. That's probably the case, to be fair. So what should we expect from him in the role then?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
He's in a position he wouldn't be near if the FAI could have gone out and hired someone suitably qualified, so should he be judged at all on his performance or will it be a case of 'it's the best we can do' in the situation given the money that's available?
Is being better than Fran Gavin a bar for the job?
Look, if it's admin then he's qualified, any eejit could do that, but his title should not be LOI Director ffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Yeah, and sure when the next fella comes along after Scanlon disappears, nobody will ask either where's Scanlon. Isn't that the problem? People come and go and nothing changes in the FAI regarding the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Who knows? Just because he's an internal promotion doesn't mean he's not up to the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
You're back to saying things that you simply don't know if they're true or not now.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
Why would he not be near the job if external candidates were invited? You still haven't really answered that one.
And that's the crux of the whole thing - you've very strong opinions on something that you don't seem to know anything about. I don't know much about it either, but I'm not going on about how unsuitable he is (and then asking what he's supposed to be doing anyway)
Why are you still trying to judge a person's suitability for the job based on completely different people? Do you not see that that makes no sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
Did you go to UCD or do you just support the team? Things don't seem to get through to you. You were like this on a previous thread too.
Clearly my idea of what the LOI Director should be and what you think he should be are two completely different things!
What doesn't get through to me?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
You haven't made a single valid point as far as I can see.
You've said you don't think a person is up to their new job based on, among other things, how other people did at other jobs, and that he's an internal candidate and therefore can't be up to the job. Yet you don't know what the job is or what their experience is.
People who disagree with you are either obviously biased or else you resort to random insults.
You're not really making a strong case for your view here. Do you want to start again?
What you need to know to decide if someones qualified for a job:
The jobs responsibilities
Their experience
Their responsibilities in previous employment
Their education
Their personality
What Lilywhites doesn't know about Scanlon:
His new jobs responsibilities
His experience
His previous jobs responsibilities
What his degree taught him
Anything about him really
What lilywhite does know:
He's a rovers fan
New job title
Old job title
I mean do I really need to say the logical conclusion to all that?
So you're both happy with Scanlon's appointment, based on him having a degree (most of which has nothing to do with this role) and his work in third level football.
Fair enough. Real LOI mentality there. Sure it'll be grand.
By the way Stu, you'd know about throwing insults and resorting to bad language.
Where did I say I was happy with his appointment?
Are you making stuff up again? It really doesn't help your argument.
I've explicitly said I don't know enough to form an opinion on him. You seem to know even less but have a very strong opinion for some reason.
And your last part then descends into random insults again.
You appear quite happy with his appointment, and the process in appointing him, based on what you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
You're the one calling someone a f**kwit on the forum.
You're not reading what I'm posting so.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
I don't know anything about the guy or how he was appointed so can't form an opinion. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make that.
All I'm doing is arguing against your view. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny, and you've nothing solid to back it up it seems.
In 30k posts over 20 years here, I probably did call someone a ****wit once. Probably because they were a ****wit. Not sure how it helps your argument that Scanlon isn't up to the job though?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
Jeez, the way you hold grudges TL, I'm beginning to wonder if you were interviewed for the job. It takes some doing to make Rathfarnham Hoop come aross as the reasonable one, but he's ****ing António Guterres in comparison to you.
I'd just like to know what qualifications are expected from the ideal candidate?
That's impossible sure. Scanlon was the only one that applied for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Psychiatry.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
If he did the UCD MSc in Sports Management (or anything similar), he'd have covered something along the lines of
- Sport Governance & Law
- Sport Leadership & People Management
- Strategy & Operations Management in Sport
- Sports Marketing
- The Management of High Performance Sport
- Sport Event Management & Communications
- Research Dissertation
(https://sisweb.ucd.ie/usis/!W_HU_MEN...PROG&MAJR=X762)
which would be a useful starting point.
I don't know what we want, somebody who cares about the league, which pretty much means they're guaranteed to support a team, or someone from outside who doesn't care. All the refs in the league support a LOI team and we don't (usually) question their impartiality. There are players who support one team and play for their bitterest rivals but they still do their job. Just accept that guys will support teams and hope they've been appointed based on their competence. JD supported Waterford ffs, fat lot of good it did them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
How many people in Ireland have experience of running a professional sports league? I'm not batting for the guy, I don't know him, but I do think there's necessarily a bit of a leap of faith going on with any applicant here unless we can afford to parachute in foreigners with a track record.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
I suspect Gavin is an employee so can't be laid off as easily as a contract worker would be. Scanlon is also an employee so can be promoted to take over Gavin's remit but has to be given a different description because Gavin is still there. The FAI is a bizarre organisation.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
WeAreRovers has linked to the Indo (albeit behind paywall) to show there were three applicants.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
You've said a number of times now that there was only one applicant, but haven't said where you're getting that info from.
Yeah, I wonder who's feeding Dan McDonnell...Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
You clearly don't read anything, you just repeat your nonsense post after post. You're either on the wind up or completely thick. I said above where it was from.
Dan McDonnell, the Dundalk fan, who now has a Rovers bias, yeah?
Tell us - who is feeding him? Or are you just making stuff up again?
It's not a remotely acceptable argument to throw out an accusation, dismiss actual evidence to the contrary as nonsense, and then accuse people as thick because they don't agree with you when you (a) provide no evidence at all to back your case up and (b) have lots of people actively showing your argument to be wrong.
It's a long time since Dan McDonnell showed anything of being a Dundalk fan, but where did I mention Rovers bias? You're making up stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
You're clearly too thick to realise how these things work.
You and RH are the ones getting hung up on the fact that Scanlon is a Rovers man.
https://twitter.com/jamesdundalk/sta...560437760?s=21Quote:
It's far too important a role to just give to a sole applicant. I don't know Mark Scanlon or his qualities and he may end up being the best for the job but surely he should at least have competition to ensure this.
"if it's true that only one person has put their name forward for the LOI Director's position"
I'll translate for you and I'll keep it nice and simple for you.
He doesn't know how many people applied. He's basing it off a rumour that there was only one applicant.
Those tweets were also sent before anything was announced so was all based off rumours and Dan McDonnells article came after and set out the facts
https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/sta...458137600?s=20