Too many Dublin Clubs?

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

Tiktok ...Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Palace, Fulham, Charlton, West Ham, Millwall, QPR, Orient, Brentford .. that's 11

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...watford, wycomb,rushden & diamonds, gillingham even conference clubs like barnet, and daganham & redbridge could be counted, and if were counting bray as dublin, then why not reading and luton.

fact of the matter is that it isnt a case of there being too many clubs, or even where there positioned in the city, the clubs that r dere must do more to promote the game and the fact that there is live football available weekly in this country, at a reasonable price :rolleyes:

look at the likes of fulham, and charlton in london,who dont have huge fan bases and have embarked on large scale drives to get more fans through the turnstiles, if my memory seves me, charlton even got into trouble with gillingham for actively trying to entice fans from their catchment area by offering them special discounts and running advertisements in the local rags about the chance to watch premiership football. while im not encouraging that - i seriously doubt if rovers fans could be converted to bohs :p :D its this kid of proactive approach that needs to be taken be ALL clubs in the land to grow the game here

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Originally Posted by monkey magic

i seriously doubt if rovers fans could be converted to bohs

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Perish the thought!
Though an amnesty for the aforementioned Shels folk, based on their diminished sense of place and a tendency to be over-impressed with short-term gains, could be considered. :p
Now where did I leave that bullet-proof vest?

There is easily room for five clubs!
Rovers have the SouthWest
Shels are going to have the entire North..
Bohs will have the CityCenter
Pats will have the West/CityCenter
UCD will have the SouthEast
And eh, dublin city/home farm can just... eh... yea..
:D

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Originally Posted by Da Real Rover

Now sligo town has a rough population.

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very rough, some of them

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

very rough, some of them

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:D :D

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

My English geography is poor but do Blackburn and Burnley not fall in there too?

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they are in lancashire(spell?)they are a nice bit north of manchester

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Originally Posted by tiktok

There no further out in relative terms than Bray is.
Be consistent and compare like with like.

6 clubs / 1.2millions people breaks down a 200,000 people per club, only Shels and Bohs are regularly getting more than 1% of their 'cut' out to support them, but you're going to insist that it's the saturation of clubs that's the problem?

200,000 is pretty much twice the population of Cork (123,000) where there is one club, that regularly attracts 4,000 (3% of their 'cut')

No matter who you compare it to, or how you write it, attendances in the EL is down to lack of interest, and there are plenty people in Dublin to support 6 clubs if they got off their backsides.

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TikTok
Along time since you have been in Cork! 450,000 in the county of whom 300,000 live within 10 miles of the Kinsale Rd Roundabout in the city.
Saying the pop of Cork city is 123,000 is the same as saying the pop of Dublin city is 500,000 (the number living in the city council area).
Percentage wise Cork City FC is doing as well as most of the Dublin clubs. No better no worse.




o

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Originally Posted by Buller

Shels are going to have the entire North..

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In your dreams and theirs ...

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Originally Posted by Buller

There is easily room for five clubs!
Rovers have the SouthWest
Shels are going to have the entire North..
Bohs will have the CityCenter
Pats will have the West/CityCenter
UCD will have the SouthEast
And eh, dublin city/home farm can just... eh... yea..
:D

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I live in the city centre, and no way I'm gonna convert to being a Pats or Bohs fan :D


I think there are not too much in Dublin given the fact that those teams all (maybe apart from Dublin City) made their way to the top flight on a fair way: on the pitch. Can someone help it that different teams from the capital have good results and go in the top flight ? With a bit of less luck Bray and UCD hadn't promoted, and then it was a different story...

The only sad thing is that I like away games outside of the city as I love the bus drives that allow me to see a share of my new home country. Without Shels, how the feck was I ever likely to go to places like Longford, Drogheda or Newbridge ?? People moving to Ireland go to Belfast, Galway, Cork, Limerick, Dublin, maybe Derry. But thanks to soccer I've also seen less famous places such as Drogheda, Portadown and Longford, plus the towns we cross on our way.

So I would like a less concentration of clubs in the capital, but rather than ditching UCD or Dublin City or Rovers or so... If we make it an all-Ireland league we have a much less concentration... I'd say: add the best 3 teams from the North, plus add Galway to have a west coast team in the top flight as well, then you get this:

Cork City
Waterford
Shelbourne
St Pats
Shamrock Rovers
UCD
Bohemians
Finn Harps
Longford Town
Derry City
Bray
Drogheda
Galway Utd
Portadown
Linfield
Glentoran


This would mean: 5 teams out of 16 (30%) from Dublin, two near Dublin (no, Bray is NOT in Dublin), two in Belfast, and then one in other parts of the country that happen to be well-spread.

5 in Dublin, 2 in Belfast, seems logical given the fact we're dealing with the biggest cities in the country. Then there's Galway to serve the West, Cork to serve the South, Finn Harps and Derry for the Northwest, Longford for the central counties, Waterford for the Southeast.
Maybe only Portadown would have problems in finding decent crowds because they're a bit stuck between Belfast and Longford that both have their teams already.

Plus, 16 teams is ideal for a good league.

Cities with a huge concentration of clubs:

Athens (ca 50% of the top division: AEK, Panathinaikos, Olympiakos Piraeus, plus approx 4 smaller teams if I'm not wrong)

Reykjavik (Vikingur, Fram, Fylkir, Reykjavik, Breidablik in second div.)

Istanbul (Istanbulspor, Fenerbahce, Galatasaray, Besiktas, plus in second div. Zariyer which is a southern suburb)

Vienna (Rapid, Austria, Admira Wacker - 3 out of 10 teams)

Prague (Slavia Prague, Sparta Prague, Bohemians Prague, plus some smaller ones)

Moscow (Spartak Moscow, Lokomotiv, CSKA Moscow, Dinamo Moscow)

Buenos Aires (mentionned earlier)

London (mentionned earlier)

Tokyo (not sure though which clubs exactly, but there are at least 4 or 5 in the top division)

Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo



and my knowledge of Scotland is not that good, but doesn't Glasgow also have at least 5 or 6 clubs in the higher divisions ?
There's not just Rangers and Celtic, there's also Partick Thistle and Queen's Park in the nationwide divisions. And if I'm not wrong the outskirts also have several teams (help me out with the names please...)



Largest concentration: San Marino, all clubs in the country play in the wide capital area :D

The way to reduce the amount of Dublin clubs is for other clubs to produce better teams and pass them out.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

The way to reduce the amount of Dublin clubs is for other clubs to produce better teams and pass them out.

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You said it in one sir !! :)

That is about the size of it .... it is up to the other clubs to get it together and pass them out.

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Originally Posted by Gerrit

. Then there's Galway to serve the West.

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I don't know why you are putting Galway in for the west, cause i know its a way bigger town but the team, club and stadium are way behind Rovers. Is the population about 60000 are so (correct me if im wrong) and yet they only attract crowds up to 550. We pull nearly 3 times that crowd, so i think we all know who has the fanbase and pedigree to serve Connaught. Dont take it personnally Galway fans because if you look at the facts we have the greatest amount of honours (have ye ever even won the league), ye are second bottom of the first division while were 3rd from top and we bet ye 2-0 in Terryland.

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Originally Posted by Da Real Rover

I don't know why you are putting Galway in for the west, cause i know its a way bigger town but the team, club and stadium are way behind Rovers. Is the population about 60000 are so (correct me if im wrong) and yet they only attract crowds up to 550. We pull nearly 3 times that crowd, so i think we all know who has the fanbase and pedigree to serve Connaught. Dont take it personnally Galway fans because if you look at the facts we have the greatest amount of honours (have ye ever even won the league), ye are second bottom of the first division while were 3rd from top and we bet ye 2-0 in Terryland.

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Sligo:
Premier Division: 2 1936-37, 1976-77
FAI Cup 2 1983, 1994
League Cup 1 1997-98
First Division: 1 1993-94

6 honours in 77 years - Woooweee :rolleyes:
Galway have 4 in 28 BTW

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Originally Posted by dancinpants

What about Serbia!!! :eek: . 7 of the 16 team top division based in Belgrade :eek:

Partizan Beograd
C. Zvezda Beograd
Zeta Golubovci
OFK Beograd
Zemun
Buducnost Podgorica
Radnicki N. Beograd
Hajduk Kula
Smederevo
Obilic Beograd
Zeleznik
Vojvodina Novi Sad
Borac Cacak
Cukaricki Beograd
Sutjeska Niksic
Hajduk Beograd

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Great example dancin pants..
But for the record Zeleznik is also a Belgrade club and Zemun is a small town just north of Belgrade a lot like Bray is next to Dublin kinda sorta thing! So you're looking at 9 out of 16 in the current season. Although Hajduk and Cukaricki look set for the drop!

P.S. looks like Crvena Zvezda have blown the League this season. Well done Partizan :(

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

Tiktok ...Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Palace, Fulham, Charlton, West Ham, Millwall, QPR, Orient, Brentford .. that's 11

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I would definitely add AFC Wimbledon in as a London team, as their crowds are very similar to the Cheery O's - even if AFC have no away fans at games. Their stated aim is to be a league team again within the next 7 years, and they're on-track to do so (back-to-back promotion and second double in a row this year. 3 more promotions and they're back !).

As someone else mentioned before, Barnet have been promoted for next season, and are a London club (on the tube).

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Originally Posted by tiktok

and Watford, Luton Town, Wycombe, Rushden&Diamonds and Barnet make 16, and I'm sure there's probably more ;)

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Hang on Tiktok - London's big, but it ain't Tokyo ! :D Rushden and Diamonds are a Northamptonshire club. That's in the Midlands - not even in the Home Counties, let alone London ! Their ground is 85 miles away from London !! Watford you can just about claim as London, as it's the last stop on a tube line. Wycombe ever-so-vaguely, but again just about. No chance with Luton - it just ain't part of London (no matter what they try and tell you about the airport... :) )

I don't know how to define where a city technically starts and stops, but to me it's where there's large gaps between the sprawl of development. Bray is therefore essentially part of Dublin as, unless I'm wrong here, it is physically connected to Dublin by continuous buildings/development.

As for the suggestion that Gillingham can be called a London club....??? No feckin chance. There's miles of open countryside between that town and the outer reaches of London. Same for Luton.

Anyways - we're kidding ourselve sif we think chopping and changing the distribution of clubs in the EL is suddenly going to unshackle the masses from their armchairs and see them storming the turnstiles at our grounds. As has been pointed out previosuly - the low attendances in our league are a result of a lack of interest, not geographical saturation. Chopping and changing the number of teams in certain areas as an act in isolation would be as effective as rearranging the seats on the Titanic....

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

Short answer, yes. Dublin is about as big , very roughly, as Manchester of Liverpool

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Dublkin is waaaaaaay bigger than Liverpool - population c.450,000. The likes of Hull and Sheffield are bigger than Scouseland.

Manchester is c.1m, - much closer to the size of Dublin, but that's only if you include the big sprawl that surrounds Manc (i.e. Bolton, Oldham etc).

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Dublkin is waaaaaaay bigger than Liverpool - population c.450,000. The likes of Hull and Sheffield are bigger than Scouseland.

Manchester is c.1m, - much closer to the size of Dublin, but that's only if you include the big sprawl that surrounds Manc (i.e. Bolton, Oldham etc).

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Liverpool city is about 450, 000 . greater merseyside about 1.5m - manchester city council area has only 350,000 or thereabouts but greater manc. has nearly 2m - equally, I would guess Dublin as defined by the city council area would be about half a million, whereas the 4 local authority areas would give the 1.2 m that everyone quotes - there's really no accurate way of doing this; people who work in Dublin, are from Dublin and so on but go to Clonee to sleep are Dubliners in my book, whereas Bolton isn't Manchester the way Longsight is .... anyway I only said roughly the same size, in a 'bigger than Cork but smaller than Paris or Rome' sort of way

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Originally Posted by Gerrit

I think there are not too much in Dublin given the fact that those teams all (maybe apart from Dublin City) made their way to the top flight on a fair way: on the pitch.

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We won the first division title & got promoted :confused: . This year two teams came second & third & got promoted :rolleyes: . get your facts right or STFU

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Originally Posted by rebs23

TikTok
Along time since you have been in Cork! 450,000 in the county of whom 300,000 live within 10 miles of the Kinsale Rd Roundabout in the city.

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I wasn't holding City's attendance's up as some Holy Grail for Dub clubs to achieve, we could be doing better too. The figure I got was from the last census, if there really are 300,000 within 11 miles of the cross then we too are only getting about 1-2% out for home games.

The point though was that there are enough people in the country to support the league and fill every stadium every week, but they're not interested, it's the profile of the league that's the problem, not the number of clubs.

Let the football talk and the bullsh*t walk.
If you get promoted you deserve it, simple!

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Originally Posted by Buller

Rovers have the SouthWest
Shels are going to have the entire North..
Bohs will have the CityCenter
Pats will have the West/CityCenter
UCD will have the SouthEast
And eh, dublin city/home farm can just... eh... yea..
:D

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Dublin City will have Ronan Seery's house. :D

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Originally Posted by Gerrit

Prague (Slavia Prague, Sparta Prague, Bohemians Prague, plus some smaller ones)

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didnt they get kicked outta de league for finincial irregularities(splet wrong i think)
wonder if its an omen... ;) :eek:

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Originally Posted by dancinpants

Sligo:
Premier Division: 2 1936-37, 1976-77
FAI Cup 2 1983, 1994
League Cup 1 1997-98
First Division: 1 1993-94

6 honours in 77 years - Woooweee :rolleyes:
Galway have 4 in 28 BTW

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You forgot
Dublin City Cup-1937
AND
First Division Shield-1994
Oh ya and Galway have actually got 6 trophies to there name. Don't forget we've still won more and won the league twice.

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Originally Posted by Da Real Rover

Dublin City Cup-1937

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Definitely too many Dublin clubs. :D

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Originally Posted by dancinpants

Sligo:
Premier Division: 2 1936-37, 1976-77
FAI Cup 2 1983, 1994
League Cup 1 1997-98
First Division: 1 1993-94

6 honours in 77 years - Woooweee :rolleyes:
Galway have 4 in 28 BTW

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Ya but Rovers kept LOI football alive in the northwest and Connacht when Derry where playing with the Brits and long before Harps and Galway joint the LOI

its all well and good stating population percentages but you've got to segment the market.

heres where it gets controversial, think before you reply :p

• 50% of the population wont go to games: because they are women.
  
  im not saying no women go to games, 51% of the population are women and about 1% would go.
  
• 20 % of the population have firmly closed minds. for various reasons: they express their rebelious republican side by joining celtic supporters clubs and the like. or the gaa fanatic who wont even watch soccer because been knocked into them by their AllSports tracksuit wearing coaches that "its crap".
  
• that leaves 30% of the population as our market base. the vast majority of these people still have yet to be converted, and for most, only entry to the league stages of the champions league will convert them.

for people wishing to see some dublin clubs merge or drop out, just wait til a dublin team gets to the CL groups: it'll doom the future support of several other clubs. dublin city would go (unless its them, and i dont think anyone can see that happening except their chairman). rovers might go. its all well and good that they've a core of excellent supporters, but if the club isnt viable it'll fold.

5 is enough. Chuck out CHF. They bring nothing to the league. No fans, no club. Replace them with a Kerry club.

KOH

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

5 is enough. Chuck out CHF. They bring nothing to the league. No fans, no club. Replace them with a Kerry club.

KOH

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:rolleyes: we have fans & a club, get over yourselve. maybe we could borrow a few million & be as big as rovers :p

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Originally Posted by Ringo

get over yourselve. (sic)

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Is it just me, or does every body who follows EL have this as their favourite saying?

My position on this question is the same expressed above by a CHF fan, i.e. that it should be settled on the pitch, although he put it much more eloquently.
I agree with that as a basic principle, because it's eminently fair. But I wouldn't go so far as to apply it to 'Dublin City'.
Sometimes, you've just gotta get rid of the runt. People from (down) the country, where I think this thread started, will understand that. :p

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

5 is enough. Chuck out CHF. They bring nothing to the league. No fans, no club. Replace them with a Kerry club.

KOH

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When Seery was setting up that club .... did he consider investing in one of the existing clubs .... you know, instead of spliting the market kinda thing ??

I mean ... starting Kildare county around the same time was a great idea imo .... totally new area, new fanbase etc. .... Why didn't Seery think of something like that or going in with an existing club ??

[QUOTE=A face]When Seery was setting up that club .... did he consider investing in one of the existing clubs .... you know, instead of spliting the market kinda thing ?/QUOTE]
Some people would say that he did invest in an existing club. :)

[QUOTE=Schumi]

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Originally Posted by A face

When Seery was setting up that club .... did he consider investing in one of the existing clubs .... you know, instead of spliting the market kinda thing ?/QUOTE]
Some people would say that he did invest in an existing club. :)

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He certainly didn't invest in an existing club, but he definitely took-over the place of one.....

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Originally Posted by Ringo

We won the first division title & got promoted :confused: . This year two teams came second & third & got promoted :rolleyes: . get your facts right or STFU

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what I mean is that Shels, Pats, Bohs, Rovers and UCD are there since ages and worked their way up from nothing. Whereas DCFC kinda took over what remained of an existing club and didn't start from zero, they used the previous work to get themselves started at a semi-professional level.

Kildare County: good idea, but WTF did that stadium in Newbridge ever pass the license commission ?? Oh yeah right, that's just for next year... Anyway, if Kildare wants a semi-professional club, fair enough, but they should take care of having a decent stadium as well. The stadium in Newbridge is a joke ; very well for the amateur league purposes of Newbridge Town FC, but for Eircom League the stadium is way too small.

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Originally Posted by Gerrit

what I mean is that Shels, Pats, Bohs, Rovers and UCD are there since ages and worked their way up from nothing. Whereas DCFC kinda took over what remained of an existing club and didn't start from zero, they used the previous work to get themselves started at a semi-professional level.

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Ok whatever about the debates on whether DCFC is a new entity or Home Farm in a different form or whatever, they are now here and certainly deserve to be on footballing merit having never finished lower than 7th in 1st Division. They are winning the 1st Division while we have a club like Kilkenny City who despite being well run are doing little else but propping up the 1st Division for nearly the fourth season in a row. I am not questioing Kilkenny's place but merely saying how can we attack a team doing well on playing merit and even for a second suggest removing them when they are doing better than other clubs?

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Originally Posted by dubman

I rekon 3 dublin teams.. It's time for the shams dublin city and ucd to go away and die. They are just a drain on the rest. They need to be taken over by the big 3 shels boos and pats .

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I saw your team last nite. They are crap. So are Rovers. UCD & shels are probably the only 2 Dublin teams that play football. You can't deny me that. Even at 3-0 down College still played football against youes. None of this hit & hope crap. Pass & move. Another 10 minutes & we woulda had youes 4-3. Pats are only there coz some teams are even worse. Lucky for yee.

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Originally Posted by Buller

There is easily room for five clubs!
Rovers have the SouthWest
Shels are going to have the entire North..
Bohs will have the CityCenter
Pats will have the West/CityCenter
UCD will have the SouthEast
And eh, dublin city/home farm can just... eh... yea..
:D

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Sounds about right to me,even let Dublin City go on a tour of the Dublin grounds.Play 2 matches in a ground then move on. :D

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Originally Posted by D2 Red

Sounds about right to me,even let Dublin City go on a tour of the Dublin grounds.Play 2 matches in a ground then move on. :D

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Thats already happening.

They've changed their home tie in the League cup against us (College) to an away one. Like travelling I guess.

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Originally Posted by monkey magic

didnt they get kicked outta de league for finincial irregularities(splet wrong i think)
wonder if its an omen... ;) :eek:

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Bohs Prague have been kicked out of the League and in mid season I might add. The fans have rallied around and a rescue looks likely. However they will be forced to play in Division 3 next season and I believe they may be going amateur for a couple of years too in order to prevent the club going under again.

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Originally Posted by Gerrit

what I mean is that Shels, Pats, Bohs, Rovers and UCD are there since ages and worked their way up from nothing. Whereas DCFC kinda took over what remained of an existing club and didn't start from zero, they used the previous work to get themselves started at a semi-professional level.

Kildare County: good idea, but WTF did that stadium in Newbridge ever pass the license commission ?? Oh yeah right, that's just for next year... Anyway, if Kildare wants a semi-professional club, fair enough, but they should take care of having a decent stadium as well. The stadium in Newbridge is a joke ; very well for the amateur league purposes of Newbridge Town FC, but for Eircom League the stadium is way too small.

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Gerrit
I wouldn't be so sure about that in the short term after all as they average somewhere in the 300 bracket Station Road is fine for their purposes.
What you are trying to say is if they ever get promoted it will be too small and you have a point on that issue.