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Look Soko, I have not given up on any point. I'm delighted to see your school took part but I repeat, there are too many schools who deliberately snub soccer or give it a low profile - Cork is only one county, by the way so stop the know-it-all BS - you sound anally retentive. As for me talking sihte, you can do better than that. You conveniently overlook the thrust of my post so I can only presume your'e not too convinced of whatever point you are trying to make. :p
Steady on now patsh, the entire attendance won't all be from Cork will they?Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
There will be far too many from here.....:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
Not as many as the revolting D4 jackeens though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhamish
I'm just calling you out for making bs statements thats all. You never did name that school from Cork.
Patsh is the one full of #### and I'd love to hear more of his opinions of how rugby toffs have ruined his life, I really would :rolleyes:
And I never tried to act as if I know it all, read one one of my first posts as an admission. I do however know about Munster schools and I've stated what I know, not much about any other schoools. Go ahead and read back on my posts before you come out with this tripe.
In terms of Rugby in Dublin,everything patsh is saying seems to be spot on in my experience.However it seems to be people from cork who are slating him and calling him a bull****er.I have had no experience of rugby in cork but munster rugby in general seems alot different then that of d4 dwellers
i'll name you a school, christian brothers college. i attend this school and soccer is ignored mostlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Soko
The GAA got €40m (or at least promised it) last year to complete the stadium. Beries tried to do deal for €60m but he didn't have cabinet approval so the PDs stopped it. The GAA must have got something at the start. €19m is not correct no matter what way you calculate it.
I have finally had enough of some GAA peoples opinions. That section are a shower of hypocrites. Most will probably support a foreign game team abroad & will cheer on the international team during the WC. The love soccer as much as the GAA but never in their own country.
I'm also sick of this notion that all these soccer & rugby clubs are queuing up to use their local GAA facilities. Cork City would have use for any GAA ground in the county. Flower Lodge is no better than the cross. The Parc wouldn't likely pass the UEFA Licencing regulations.
Would Longford Town use the local GAA pitch? Would Sligo use whatever GAA pitch they have up there? I don't think so.
Remember almost 1/3 of the voters last sunday voted to against a TEMPORARY opening of Croke Park.
It is shamful the stance of the Cork GAA board when many people in the city & county go to games of all organisations throughout the year.
:rolleyes:
Soko there is no need to attack the poster. Maybe you should stick to attacking the post and we can progress this discussion a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soko
I think it likely that the school Patsh is talking about is CBC, and I think his observations are completely valid. Click that link and see what current pupils say about rugby, one guy saying that "if you didn't play rugby or you weren't in trouble he (school principal) didn't know who you were. People joked that rugby players had free reign of the school... but they did!".
My memories of that school are that you were a second class citizen if you did not play rugby. The type of guys who played the game started out as a mixture of normal lads, but a few years into it and they all turned into the sort of social nightmares that Patsh is talking about.
The school was considered as being exclusive, and probably still is, as you have to pay fees to go there. But it was exclusive in a nasty way. Many of the lads who went there looked down on anybody who appeared socially different. For example most comments I heard about the lads who went to the One Day a Week school up the road would make you think that they were a lower life form. There were incredible stone age attitudes there, which condemned trades unions, Travellers, people who were poor, the unemployed, in fact anybody who did not appear to be "socially acceptable", in their own narrow sense of the word.
The Brothers in CBC were no better. Attempts to introduce soccer were undermined. There was this one guy who had a trial for Arsenal, called Harrington I think. From Iona Park in Mayfield anyway. He and a few others made a determined effort to start a team and enter it in the school boys leage at the time. Not one teacher helped, despite the fact that they were queueing up to coach the rugby teams. The boss of the school would not allow the team to use the extensive school grounds at Lansdowne (up next to Collins Barracks). The only concession was that the organisers were allowed to put a notice on the school notice board.
In CBC I "learned" that GAA was a sport for culchies, Soccer was played by rough people from the poorer parts of town, and Rugby was the sport of men. Later I saw that the circle of priveleged people whose sons played rugger ensured that these boys walked into jobs if they did not get the points to go to Uni.
These guys are caricatures of intolerance of anything and anybody that does not fit within their rigid social scene. Of the guys I know, very few have any interest in or respect for GAA or soccer. They live in a different world, and I get the sense that I am possibly the only person they know who supports an EL club. Oh, they will go to Old Trafford alright, maybe more than once a year, but sin sceal eile.
So, why would you want to feel good about city slicker rugger buggers playing at Croker? The only positive things about it, IMO, are that the country will be saved a few bob, and the GAA will earn a few million in rent.
So give Patsh a break, will ya?
Soko, I read your posts. Martin Rules ie mentioned the Cork school, above, I think that's the one. All I'm saying is I heard a radio interview with a Cork schools Principal state that rugby was the traditional sport and there was no room for "other" sports. I'm not anti-Cork - I did mention my own Galway school as an example where the same dunmbass attitude persists. My basic point is, I am against elitism, croneyism, special preference and pseudo-tradition in either school, media or any other area. If a Principal stated that soccer was the school sport and other sports were down the pecking order, I would be just as vehemently against that. If that's tripe then so be it - you can live in your own little world. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Soko
there is no doubt truth in that, but I'm sure there are GAA-oriented schools where that is the case too. In my experience, most schools tend to treat "sports stars" differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair_play_boy
I think people are being too harsh on Dave Hannigan. I don't always agree with him, but the point he makes about Shamrock Rovers and Tallaght are points that need to be made. They spent govenment grants on player's wages. Its a disgrace.
Awww, the little rugger boy is still calling me names.....how sweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soko
Wrong Pete.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
This is a letter taken for the Irish Times of a few weeks ago. The figures mentioned have been independently verified.
************************************************** **************
I write in response to a letter from David Luke (March 4th) in which he spuriously remarks that taxpayers have contributed almost half the cost of the building of Croke Park.
For the record, the GAA has developed a network of facilities countrywide at a cost estimated at around €2.6 billion with the aim of providing a social, cultural and sporting outlet for communities in rural parishes, villages, towns and cities. It has made an inestimable contribution to the social, mental and physical health and well being of the nation.
The GAA has redeveloped Croke Park at a cost of close to €260 million. With the exception of the €19 million that the Government invested in Croke Park to prepare it to host the opening and closing ceremonies for the Special Olympics, the balance of any monies received is lottery funding. The lottery was established to provide additional funding to support the arts, culture, and national heritage; the Irish language; youth, sport, recreation and amenities; and health and welfare projects. Lottery funding cannot be described as Exchequer or taxpayers' money. The fact of the matter is that the GAA has given far more to the Exchequer than it has received, by way of taxes that have accrued as a result of its investment in Croke Park and other grounds throughout the country, not to mention the employment and revenue generated by its activities.
Indeed, the association has not begrudged other sporting organisations which have received a commitment to comparatively massive Government funding with little relative investment of their own.
- Yours, etc.,
DANNY LYNCH, PRO, GAA, Croke Park, Dublin 1.
© The Irish Times
***********************************
Some people simply do not want to believe this and prefer to believe that the GAA are getting massive sums of money. The FACT is that they are not, and no amount repeating the lie is going to change that fact.
There are things that people can criticise the GAA for, and they do, LONG and LOUDLY.
However, ALL associations can be criticised and while the FAI gets it's fair share, the IRFU, through their toadies in the media, get away with being a monument to class, exclusion and snobbery, and thier assets and landbanks rarely recieve any investigation. If you do criticise them, you get the usual, wounded little whelp response. Why are their finances NEVER questioned? Why does NOBODY ever complain about the money they get?
The point about the GAA is that it is a truly democratic organisation where EVERYBODY has their say, so we hear the minority who were against the opening of Croke Park just as much as we hear the majority who were for it. The problem with democracy of course, is that it's the worst system there is, but nobody has come up with a better system yet.
Could you please differenciate between "millions-upon-millions" and "19 million"??? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
When and where did I say they were :confused: ???Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
If it isn't written down, then it's not a rule of theirs. btw, I think you're totally blowing that 'class-based' sh*t out of proportion. Many "lower-class" guys play the game here in Cork.Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
"Hallowed turf" .... VOMIT!Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
And by the way, fu*k off with your "ancestors killed and maimed the ordinary decent people of this country" bullsh*t. That has absolutely nothing to do with the argument about tax funding and imo makes you sound petty.
Lottery funding is basically the same as government funding as the government decide who gets what, Little difference between tax payers cash & cash rasied from state lottery.
Where did the recent 40m to complete Croke Park come from?
Why don't the GAA admit how much lottery funding they have received?
I do not begrudge the GAA its cash - they receive about 3m a year in standard funding similar to the IRFU & FAI. The real enemy is the 50-60m that horse racing gets every year in standard funding, Capital funding is a different section.No problem with the GAA getting cash as long as the FAI get similar amounts.
Certainly something you know a lot about.....Quote:
Originally Posted by anti dub
Patsh, you're a sad little boy. Its a pity you never made it onto a sporting field or you might have grown up a little and figured out some things for yourself, instead of buying into every stereotype in the book and believing other peoples opinions.
Aww Pete, come on!Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
All cash from the Lottery is money spent voluntarily by people, knowing that the money they put in is to be spent on sports, arts, culture etc.
There is a vast difference between recieving that money and being given the money that is compulsorily raised to pay for roads, health services, social welfare amongst other things.
The GAA in that letter state quite clearly that they get a lot of lottery money, they are not hiding the fact....:confused:
As far as I know, the grants for Sport from the central Lottery fund are disbursed through the Arts, Sport and Tourism department. I've been trying to find some summary of the allocations given to different sports, but it's not too easy to find on the Dept. website.
I presume Horse Racing will come out top of the list, but I reckon Golf clubs come out very well too, as they were one of the first groups to grasp the benebfits of the scheme. In the first few years, at least, golf was the highest beneficiary.
As for the FAI getting the same cash as the GAA, if you look at the type of facilities GAA clubs put in place compared to football clubs, (playing fields, clubhouse, bar, social centre for GAA clubs, dressing rooms, pitch for football clubs) the grants will be much higher, I suspect, as the GAA facilities are geared to be for more than simply sport and are cross-community centres.
Of course, the fact that O'Donoghue, and McDaid in particular would be GAA people and would not care too much for way the FAI "carried on" it's business, doesn't help either. In this regard, the FAI's inability to conduct it's business properly has seriously weakened it's ability to demand the amounts of money it should be getting. If the FAI pushed the eL more and emphasised the the fact that Irish boys can stay at home and make a decent living from the game domestically, and that there is an indigenous football industry, it might alter the perception that soccer only really happens cross-channel.
The Government still decides where the Lottery money goes - it decided that eircom Park wouldn't be getting any, for example. So the Government decide to give the GAA millions that could be spent elsewhere.
Of course the GAA has the benefit of it's only professionals being the paid administrators, rather than rugby and football who don't expect the players to put in all the effort for fook all return. Basically every match they only have to cover ground costs, rather than player costs. Every eL ground would match the GAA county grounds if that were the case - however, even those grounds have bugger all stands that would pass the licence.
Nice to see a GAA head finally admit that much of the developments in the GAA are money making as well - all centred around club houses etc that do a very nice trade over the bar.
Having said that, I don't have a major problem with the GAA over funding, bar for Croke Park against the total lack of funding for the FAI's proposal (I'm no fan of the FAI administrators, but how the Governments failure to support eP is their fault I don't know!). Again my real problem is the Racing Industry who make millions as it is...
That is of course unless you are a community socccer team.Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
razor there's no point in arguing with him, he won't listen :rolleyes:
I know what you mean,razor, but what I mean are the facilities themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by razor
Most soccer clubs develop a ground and dressing room set-up only, while GAA clubs tend to go in for much larger scale developments, and normally incorporate a bar and a function room which is used for community events. (bingo, youth clubs and stuff like that.)
Soccer clubs, unfortunately, tend to be associated with a particular pub, while GAA clubs tend to represent an area/parish/community.
And Macy, your point about eircom Park is correct, but that can be traced back to ONE politician really, B. Ahern. For a supposed soccer fan, that guy has done his level best to ruin things for soccer in this country. If the FAI were the type of organisation who commanded respect and had some clout, he wouldn't have been able to get away with that quite so easily.
The Government do decide on the lottery funds, and this is where the FAI are so sadly lacking. Given the soccer is the most widely played game in the country, you would think that they should get the most money, but because there is no political clout whatsover from within the game, soccer just doesn't get it's fair share. Compare the type of lobbying, if any, that soccer attracts, while the GAA and Rugby shower have very strong advocates within the Dáil.
This thread was started as "criticism" of a journalist and then had yet another whinge and moan at the GAA. This seems to be common practice for a lot of posters on this board, who whinge and moan about the GAA constantly without knowing any FACTS, just mistruths and urban myths. I pointed out that you could level much of the same criticism at the rugby crowd, probably ten times over, in fact, and the response from that corner was childish abuse and not a solitary post actually debating the issue.
I reckon EVERY cent given to the GAA is more than defensible, I think you could argue that even if the FAI got ten times the amount they get know, it too would be defensible, but I think that the money that rugby gets, and it is after alll a minority sport, numbers wise at least, and the money the IRFU will get for the re-development of their ground is highly questionable to say the least, if not downright indefensible, yet that does not attract the same hostility that the GAA do. Horse Racing is another area where I think it is impossible to justify the money they recieve.
That might be to do with the way this thread went way off topic. Maybe a mod can split this thread, as it looks as if this discussion still has a good way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
I really have no interest in arguing about the GAA, I've done it so much. This thread was indeed just started as a criticism of Dave Hannigan.