Kenny confirmed we've been accepted for this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
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Kenny confirmed we've been accepted for this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
My post is explicit. I’m not naming names and I’m not explaining further. That team is tight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
As far as I can recall this is the first age group of the development squad era. It would take a committed and talented kid not raised in Ireland to make those squads.
Yes lads need to calm down. Obafemi, crowley and johsnsson have committed In last few months with us not handing out caps willy nilly. Louie Barry is an exceptional under 16 striker dual qualified banging them in for England 15s and 16s and our 15s and 16s. Should we offer him a cap against Gibraltar and cut him loose if he doesnt accept?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
You’d prefer to hang on to players who don’t accept Liam?
I think the way we have done this up to now has been successful and correct. Rice ultimately behaved poorly to accept senior caps when he was not fully committed and then to compound it dragged it out so unnecessarily long to confirm his intention. I think we should learn from this and not give senior friendly caps without public commitment to accepting competitive cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizzer
Grealish to his credit did not allow it go to that point .
otherwise we need to decide that we won't pick dual nationals at any level underage and leave it at that. England cap about 50 lads at under 15 and 16 level a season and have no difficulty picking lads who also play for other countries and continue to pick them without making them choose again Barry, riley at city and hodge at city are prime examples of this in our set up at moment Dembele is prime example of this born London moved Glasgow as 2 year old played with Scotland under 16s from age 13 then Brits swoop in and pick him at 16s level for them.
So if we take the high moral ground on this ,which may be the correct thing to do, we need to not be whinging when lads are playing for England with strong Irish background s at senior level and saying the fai scouting is terrible how did we not get them on board.
I can see where you’re coming from but Rice was vocal about his commitment,leaving aside the badge-kissing and singing the national anthem etc.Totally agree re Grealish,surprisingly he has turned out to be the more mature and decent person out of the two.I don’t think this ‘difficult decision’ has taken a bat off Rice.Christmas has come early for him.i don’t have a problem with capping good dual-eligibility players, I just don’t think we should be used as a shop window.The Rice situation is probably an aberration as players with an ounce of decency are more likely to take the Grealish approach.I just think we have adequate opportunity to weed out the ones intending to use us as a steppingstone and we should take it.Its sort of like a pre-nup,you want to play for us? Great, here’s five minutes against Gibraltar to confirm your commitment.Now you can ‘concentrate on your football’ without any annoying questions from the press or phone calls from the England recruitment staff.
It's a fair point about using us as a shop window if u look at Oliver o Neil who looked a fine player in our 16s in no ember he had never been involved with England at 15s or 16s up to then but following this he was called up to the next England 16s squad(didn't attend though!) Same thing with o o'Driscoll the spurs keeper called up by us never previously involved with Brits and suddenly in their next squad . This forum which tracks dual qualified underage players from a Brits perspective is very interesting and shows how the Brits approach it with all countries not just us http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/eng...019295/page-71 .
I like to believe that there will always be players who feel Irish and will want to play for us even if st senior level the Brits also want them. For that reason I am supportive of the idea of not offering that competitive cap at senior level until they are genuinely going to be in the managers plans for genuine involvement.
To my mind this is what crowley had done. At 21 he has no reason to not believe he could get an England cap in the next 4 or 5 years(he is a more naturally talented playmaker than maddison and mount who have been capped or in senior squads) . It sickens me when lads I talk to who wouldn't pick him out of a line up are saying he only choose us cause his career has gone off the rails and he isn't good enough for England.
I genuinely believe if we had taken a hard stance with him at a younger age and demanded he commit we would have turned him off as he would have felt we were simply stockpiling players and were not genuinely interested in him and his Irish heritage.
Sorry, I’m taking Wikipedia over some random guy on the internet like you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Ironically, Wikipedia is written by random guys on the internet
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...atsthejoke.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I flip flop on the capping issue. I think that there is a time and a place for verything.
I think if we start faffing around with caps it might do us greater damage in the long run with Irish-born Irish reared non nationals which will become significant for us to utilise in years to come.
The best example I can give is joe Lapira. Many of us regularly refer to
Him as being the most undeserving ridiculous cap we’ve awarded. And probably is. But that guy cherishes that cap more than anything and is supporters the ones supposed to be behind the players ridicule him. I would hope that we don’t start going down the road of capping one off youngsters just to tie them down. Particularly when they are relatively unproven.
Howvervet the supporter in me says to hell with it can we afford to lose someone? .
His name is Luca
He plays in the second tier
He lives up north of Crewe
Dual eligible? Yes, we've been here before.
We are already playing the game though, we know we have lads who are 50 / 50 at best on their feelings of national identity in our set up, we accept that (that's not to tar all the UK born lads with one brush either) but some of them are dodgy, so if we are already in the game, why not make winning moves ? It will at least show up the losing hands. You could maybe argue that two most high profile ones JG & DR could have been secured with earlier more assertive moves. If DR is telling the truth, he almost certainly could have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
This will happen again, that would be what guides my strategy on it, to stop it from repeating for the sake of the supporters, particularly young lads in green shirts with Rice on the back.
bravo!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by sullivinho
Because Im lazy and dont want to do the research myself.... was OConnell in that squad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
He was, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I saw a copy of the rule affecting eligibility last night. I think that even capping an under 18 player in a Senior international might not tie him down. There’s a reference to consent which I feel is ambiguous enough that could be challenged by someone desperate enough to change.
What, like an argument that they didn’t have capacity to decide because they’re not an adult? Can you post up the section there Kingdom for a look.
https://resources.fifa.com/image/upl...6jfqyqkvxwcxefQuote:
Originally Posted by Fizzer
Article 18 Change of Association
' If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is
eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, up to his 21 1t birthday,
and only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international
matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality, subject to the
following conditions:
(a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an official competition at °A"
international level for his current Association, and at the time of his first full or partial
appearance in an international match in an official competition for his current Association, he
already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.
(b) He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition in which he has already
played for his previous Association .
If a Player who has been fielded by his Association in an international match in accordance with art .
15 par. 2 permanently loses the nationality of that country without his consent or against his will
due to a decision by a government authority, he may request permission to play for another
Association whose nationality he already has or has acquired .
Any Player who has the right to change Associations in accordance with par. 1 and 2 above shall
submit a written, substantiated request to the FIFA general secretariat. The Players' Status
Committee shall decide an the request. The procedure will be in accordance with the Rules
Governing the Procedures of the Players' Status Committee and the Dispute Resolution Chamber.
Once the player has filed his request, he is not eligible to play for any representative team until his
request has been processed .
I think this is the incorrect law that I've found online, i.e. there is an updated one, but I would suggest that there is scope in the wording of the underlined piece to push if you're under 18 and a decision has been made on your behalf.
Edit: It's the same law in the updated statutes. There are better legal minds around here than me. The use (or lack of use) of a second comma in the underlined is probably enough to protect FIFA from misinterpretation.
I interpret that more as if a player has been stripped off his nationality due to something political.....like someone exiled from a country, or stripped of citizenship for some reason. But I'm no legal expert.
If you hear something late at nightQuote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Some kind of Grealish, some kind of Rice,
Just don't ask him what he wants..
Totally correct.... thats for war torn countries like Northern Ireland etc !Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Just to add to the above - for this section to apply, the request to change association would need to be due to an act or decision of a Government authority in country of the original association that would have removed his citizenship or nationality.Quote:
If a Player who has been fielded by his Association in an international match in accordance with art .
15 par. 2 permanently loses the nationality of that country without his consent or against his will
due to a decision by a government authority, he may request permission to play for another
Association whose nationality he already has or has acquired .
It could be war torn countries (i.e. independence movements) but it could equally be simply a change in policy of the government in a specific country. For example, if a hypothetical new government in Italy imposed a law revoking citizenship obtained by migrants that entered the country in certain years, any migrants who would otherwise be bound by the rules could apply to FIFA under this provision to change their affiliation to their country of birth (or another country that they might qualify for).
https://sportslens.com/report-totten...onnell/264416/
Will be interesting to see how the headline ages
Sorry, the headline I was referring to was in the link on reddit.
https://i.imgur.com/g7E7lIX.png
Plan A check
Next they just need to get that yes man in Southgate to try manipulate Luca to switch to England...
Named in the senior squad for Denmark and Gibraltar
We will know soon enough were his loyalties areQuote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
he's more than good enough to play against Gibraltar. You can't argue that it's purely a call up for call up's sake considering he's playing at a higher level to Cullen and Byrne
As Zero points out on the squad thread, Connell may yet be cut when the squad is reduced from 27 to 23 for the qualifiers.
I'm sure it's probably a coincidence but unusually he signed with Adidas today. Michael Obafemi is also an Adidas player.
Glad to see him called up and hopefully, this means the FAI have learned their lesson re young dual eligible players. 89 minute appearance vs Gibraltar now please.
Mick says he won't throw him on just to cap-tie him but is open to giving him a run-out if he "rips it up" in training camp: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...rs-925899.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
There is absolutely no reason why Mick shouldn't cap-tie him against Gibraltar that is unless we want to end up with egg in our faces for the umpteenth time.Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
Love the sound of this guy (he says hesitantly) - https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...en-926126.html
Quote:
But then Connell asserts unequivocally that should the manager choose to blood him in next month’s Euro 2020 qualifiers, he wouldn’t hesitate about playing in games which would have the effect of cementing his future as an Irish international.
“I wouldn’t hold back,” he insists. I’ve got to take any opportunity that I can. It’s a once in a lifetime thing. If you turn that down, not just the gaffer but the team wouldn’t be happy with you.
"I’d take the chance, yeah. My target is to get in the senior team, I want to crack on and hopefully I can make my debut.”
The Bolton Wanderers midfielder is not inclined to put too much store in reports that he is already being tracked by England.
“Yeah, I did see a few of the reports and got told about them but it could mean anything, couldn’t it?,” he says. “There was no direct contact. I’m happy where I am. If the gaffer wants to give me a chance, I’m more than willing to take that.”
Those who know Connell are adamant that he’s fully committed and that’s great. However, as he says, there’s been no contact from England. There’s only one way to rule out any future contact.To not give this kid two minutes against Gibraltar would be,I would suggest,negligent.Until he’s capped, every interview he does with an Irish journo is going to be about England.Theres an argument that this approach is cynical, it is, but it’s a cynical business so let’s get it done.Theres a further argument that it cheapens the jersey, and maybe it does to some extent, but no Irish caps or jerseys have been or will be as cheapened as Rice’s three.
Cap tying them is the only way to stop lads doing a Rice .
Has to be done . Ok , the lad should be told that once he is named on the subs he very well may be put on and cap tied .
The choice is then up to him . What has been going on with Rice is making a Mockery of International Football .
Beautifully put.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizzer
It's real simple. The ball is in Ireland's court.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
We have put ourselves and the lad himself in a position to cap him against Gibraltar and who knows maybe even get a short cameo against Denmark if things are going well?
The way Luca will look at the first ten days in June is either positive or negative. He will think as follows:
Positive - Great, I was called up by an international manager who really rates me and he backed that up by putting me on the pitch against Gibraltar. I am looking forward to a long future in international football with Ireland.
Negative - I was called up by the Irish manager. He took me to Portugal and had a long look at me and obviously decided that he doesn't rate me all that highly. If he did he would have at least put me on the pitch against
a team as low as Gibraltar. So it's on to the next offer for me. I am young still and who knows maybe England will be interested down the road?
All of this makes me realise how much I hate Declan Rice. This lad is obviously a cracking young player and would be on the radar of the English underage sides and his connection is the same as Rice but, my God, Rice screwed us.