the swiss very impressive in the nations lge. particularly against belgium a couple weeks ago when they won 5 - 2Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Printable View
the swiss very impressive in the nations lge. particularly against belgium a couple weeks ago when they won 5 - 2Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
2-0 down at one stage too I think
Tough but doable group. Definitely could have been a lot worse. Best of luck Northern Ireland and Scotland
I've added our record VS each team on twitter here: https://twitter.com/irish_abroad/sta...93329252974592
Switzerland are a very good team as are denmark. Georgia are always a potential banana skin but not a greece or romania and gibraltar is the best of pot 5 by far.
Without getting ahead of myself, that should be a playoff with a bit to spare. On paper, a well managed Ireland can give the swiss and the danes a proper game.
It will be great having the two extra dates for friendlies as well.
The wc 2022 draw is in july. If we took a major scalp like switzerland that could be massive for us going forward for that draw.
If our group goes to form and and the other groups go the way I think they will this is what the play off looks like.
the rest.
1 Iceland
2 Slovakia
3 Ireland
4 Northern Ireland
5 Bulgaria
6 Israel
7 Hungary
8 Romania
Play Off assured
Ukraine
Scotland
Norway
Finland
Georgia
Macedonia
Kosovo
Belarus
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Yep, Switzerland have to have the June dates off with the Nations League finals... so they have to play in March. Which means one of the other four teams have to have one if not two of the March dates off.
Give us Gibralter and a free weekend in March to get some points and a friendly.. if John Delaney has any pull in UEFA at this point, he'll be absolutely working his hole off for the next few hours while they are putting the fixtures together
A hopeful draw.
Switzerland are now a top team, they had two brilliant games for the neutral to watch against Belgium in the UNL, their one poor game in years was the WC last 16 defeat to Sweden. I know we were crap v Denmark but I really didn't like the mouthy Danish players saying we were crap, so i'm happy enough with them as 2nd seeds.
We could have gotten a lot stronger teams than Georgia and Gibraltar. But you'd want a tricky 4th seed to take points of your opponents.
The playoff has nothing to do with this group as in we could finish bottom of this and still be in the playoffs. That I think will force us to push for a win over in Georgia where if the third place went to playoff we would be happy maybe with a draw. 4 draws with the top two and 4 wins against the bottom two might do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
Georgia could take points of all the top 3 teams in our game if they are not on their game.
Hopefully shaqiri is missing when we play the swiss. He seems to make them tick.
Basically we're missing a fourth seed, which is nice. Georgia are a decent fifth seed, and Gibraltar are clearly a sixth seed. Georgia in particular could take points, but I think qualification is two teams from three. We're probably third favourites, but I think our chances are decent.
Georgia are also in the Nations League play-offs, having won League D. They're probably favourites to win too (they're in with Kosovo, Belarus and Macedonia). Probably won't impact things too much though; yes, they'll have one eye on March 2020, but they'll probably also be trying to push themselves as much as possible in qualifying.
Positive hat says that Martin got three draws in four meetings with Denmark in the past year. Surely Mick has to be an improvement?
You could take the line also that Georgia probably see the play off route as their best way of qualifying, so they can really have a go at the group games as they have that safety net. They aren't a bad side at all from what I seen of them last few qualifying tournaments.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Switzerland are.. effective. Very effective. But if you'd been asked would you have preferred them or Holland.. you'd have picked them.
Getting the free day in March I think is the key to this group.
Not sure if you understand the changes that the Nations League have brought bungle.. but the play offs have nothing to do with finishing positions in these groups. In fact, the play off places are already decided, with teams giving the opportunity to play themselves out of them by qualifying directly, rather than playing themselves into them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
I think we'll end up in a play off with Iceland, Northern Ireland and AN Other to be honest.
And as for the draw for the World Cup in 2022.. that will also be decided by Nations League placings. The next Nations League will be played out in the Autumn of 2020, and Ireland will be in Group C.. so no matter how they do in this competition.. they could go all the way and win it.. and still only be a third, or possibly fourth seed in the 2022 World Cup draw.. depending on how we do in the 2020 Nations League.
The world of seeding has changed kiddo.. changed forever
They've played nice stuff against us recently, but they're ineffective for all that. It's the third time in a row we've drawn them; they didn't get a single win in 2018 qualifying (five draws, including one against us), and Gibraltar aside, they won just one game in 2016 (at home v Scotland; a vital win for us, but they lost every other game). I think it'd be great to see them at the Euros, but I don't think they'll be as much of a threat as, say, Hungary, Greece, Slovenia or Albania, who have all qualified in recent years and who are all fourth seeds as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
Part of me wonders if Switzerland/Denmark away as our sole game in March mightn't be a bad idea. Worked a treat in 2002 qualifying. Would give us a chance of catching a top seed on the hop as their chances of prep would be severely limited by the new manager coming in for a first game.
I think people are underestimating Georgia. They've been improving year on year. I can see them taking points off all the teams in the group.
Essentially we are assured of a play off unless some freakish results happen. This is a **** group for travel and ill only be happy with it if we come 2nd, it feels we are due revenge again Denmark and even Switzerland for Mick. If we can hit the ground running we have got a good shot here. Overall while transition happens I do feel we could be up and down at the start and because of that I think Switzerland & Denmark will edge the group because of that unless lets say we get Gibraltar first up then beat Denmark at home then we can get momentum but other than that I do expect 3rd place but we have a fighting chance here. Either way we should be humming along nicely going into the play off should we get there or need it.
I'm not sure their qualifying results really back that up?Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
Their best campaigns were 1996/1998/2002 for example.
Georigia played well against us under Trap and MonRo.. because we let them. We scored and then dropped off giving them the ball and letting them play away whatever way they wanted. And we made them look good.
But then again, we did the same against Moldova in Dublin. And Northern Ireland. And a host of other teams.. because we had managers who seemed to think we'd be better off playing without the ball than with it.
Now I haven't seen a lot of Mick at Ipswich, but what I have tells me, he actually likes his teams to have the ball and want to play. Which makes be feel a lot more comfortable about playing the likes of Georgia and Gibraltar. We should be getting 12 points there, and not worrying about them.
Meaning that the games v Switzerland and Denmark, become like a Nations League mini league, with the top two going through.
Yeah, that's how I see it as well.
Wouldn't have had that view if O'Neill was still in charge of course.
We've always struggled against them, home & away (closer each day).Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
They're a far better team now than the one we faced in the 2010 campaign.
I just had a look at their campaigns we didn't meet them. In 2014 campaign - they held France, Spain only beat them by a late goal - both in Tbilisi. They also beat Croatia in the 2012 campaign.
I'd be surprised if they don't beat at least one of Denmark, Switzerland or us. I think they'll be right in the mix but will probably fall short in the last few games.
I think they're still due a result against us purely on the law of averages; that's even after getting a long-overdue draw against us in Tbilisi last year.
But I think if you're going back to the 2012/14 campaigns to find good results, that doesn't hold with the idea that they're improving year-on-year. Three points from eight games once the bottom seeds are discounted (which is what they got in 2016 and 2018) is not a return that'll have them in the mix.
We absolutely need to be careful of them, but as fourth seeds, I'm much happier to have them than a country that's qualified for something recently, which was about half the options available.
I was thinking the same. Everyone has seen his goal against Holland at Lansdowne Road but those of us of a certain vintage will remember that Jason McAteer got 2 crucial goals against the Dutch in that campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
That's a big disappointment in relation to wc 2022 qualification rather than my hope of getting into the second pot. Sounds like we will be third seeds at best. Still if we have a good euros you would hope that this will give us a new spirit regardless of being down the pots.
In qualifiers at home since sept. 2001, have we only beaten one team from the top two seeds?
Probably.. I've always felt our home form is never good enough against the really top sides.. way too many draws.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
But again I'll go back to managers who don't think we're good enough, and leave us constantly playing on the back foot no matter who we play at home. If you concede possession and ground to an opponent, the fans end up spending the whole game chewing their nails rather than making the stadium rock.. what you need in the Aviva.. is hostility.. noise.. f**k it, bring one flares, drums, bells, large Tifo flags.. the works.. make our team feel like they have 50,000 players.. and make opponents feel like they don't want to be the ones to **** 50,000 people off
A good draw in that we could have got tougher teams ( though all that can be unpredictable ) .
But A Bit Boring . The Danes again .
You're right there.. was hoping for an Estonia, or Moldova, or somewhere with cheap beer and good looking lasses around early September next year.. shorten the Winter likeQuote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Reasonably good from Mick’s point of view but a bit of auld Glamour wouldn’t have hurt .
Everyone needs a little Razzle Dazzle now and again .
We'll get plenty of that in the finals if we get there haha ..Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
our support has gone to the dogs recently. granted the football was poor but rehashed celtic songs, the pathetic james mcclean song, the even worse version of the icelandic clap have left lansdowne soulless. sure the welsh were laughing at us a couple of games back. time for the fans to step it up too i feelQuote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
any word on the fixtures yet?
edit: tracked them down.
Mar 23 Gibraltar 🇬🇮 (A) 17:00
Mar 26 Georgia 🇬🇪 (H) 19:45
Jun 7 Denmark 🇩🇰 (A) 19:45
Jun 10 Gibraltar 🇬🇮 (H) 19:45
Sep 5 Switzerland 🇨🇭 (H) 19:45
Oct 12 Georgia 🇬🇪 (A) 14:00
Oct 15 Switzerland 🇨🇭 (A) 19:45
Nov 18 Denmark 🇩🇰 (H) 19:45
Hadn't realised every flag was red and white.
Tough second half of the campaign. Would need 10 points from the first half I'd say
given our new manager situation i dont think we could have handpicked that set of fixtures any better ourselvesQuote:
Originally Posted by zero
Delaney must've pulled some strings to get Gibraltar and Georgia up first.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
Great chance to build some much needed momentum.
Definitely, just like how he pulled our playoff draw v Estonia a few years back.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Tough end to the group IMO, Switzerland, then away to Georgia and Switzerland and finish against Denmark at home
If there's a date available for a friendly in September, it's a chance for experimentation
The best thing about that start is it gives us a chance to give Obafemi some time in two games against Gibraltar and perhaps Georgia and, everything going according to plan, by the time we face Switzerland in September he'll have four competitive caps and over 20 EPL games under his belt. It may also give us a later than anticipated chance to blood Daniel Crowley, Jimmy Dunne and even Aaron Connolly, should he show up in Brighton's FA Cup team in January. And if Declan Rice stays with us, his decision to skip the lower-stakes competitive action of the Nations League might not be as big of a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
Of course, we may get caught cold by Gibraltar, in which case this draw will be a disaster:eek:
Starting with Gibraltar away is another hark-back to the first Mick reign, which started with Liechtenstein away.
That was a kind of banana skin as we'd drawn with them 12 months earlier. But instead we were 4-0 up after half an hour.
A repeat would be quite good!
We've two games to start with.. that should be 6 points. If we don't get 6 there we're at nothing anyway. Mick will have gotten 4 months to look at the players and ten days in camp.. he needs to be ready for Denmark away in the third game.. which feck it.. I couldn't care less if he goes double martin/trap and sticks all 11 behind the ball and get the worst 0-0 draw we've ever seen out of it.
However.. we need to beat either Switzerland or Denmark at home.. I think it's that simple
Excellent draw for us, and a nice easy start to get running. Granted Switzerland and Denmark are currently ahead of us, but there not light years ahead either. Switzerland lost out to an organised but limited Swedish team in the WC, a Swedish side badly exposed against England in the next round. And Denmark couldn't score in two games against us, when we were at our weakest.
We are not going to get much better opportunities than this to finish in the top two, and failing that a playoff place is virtually assured. It is set up for us to qualify and it's a failure of duty on the part of McCarthy if we don't.
I think the Swiss are a fair bit ahead of us in quite a few ways, not least their ability to navigate qualifying pretty effectively down the years, but yes, the Sweden and NI games suggest that there may be something to be gained from them.