already here
Printable View
already here
great post ! I couldnt agree more. The same scum that were shouting abuse are probably calling for a UI team now because Norn Iron is doing so crap for the last 1/4 of century.Quote:
As for an All-Ireland football team, there is no way I will share my national team with those who abused Paul McGrath and Packie Bonner in Windsor Park in 1993.
What has the republic of ireland to gain from all of this exactly ? its a lose lose situation for us. Someone in favour please point it out :)
Them same people who pushed Neil Lennon out.. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
The best player on the team..
Whats the saying biting off your nose to spite you face..
We have nothing to gain from it an I would say the majority of the country would be against it
anyone born in the 6 counties can have a british or irish passport.
players qualify for northern Ireland by actually being born there,as opposed to the actual passport.
although anyone with a british passport can play for n.i., the FAs of scotland england wales and norn iron all have an agreement that they wont use players from each others nations, unless they have a proper fifa-approved connection to that country, realtions/family etc. as opposed to the possibility of one country poaching british passport holders from all the countries all over the u.k.
Is it true that Wales were weighing up a move for Carlo Cudicini last year as he was living in England 5 years and had never represented Italy or England?Quote:
Originally Posted by anto eile
I love the way ROI take players from NI, England and Scotland with utter disregard for the respective associations. :)
I don't see the point in a cross-state team. Why would two different nations cross a state boundary to form a national team? It would be nothing more than a marriage of convenience. The whole home nations thing is a bizarre anomaly which predates FIFA and is only really tolerated because of that. National teams should stick to states and nations within states in extrenuating circumstances but this makes no sense.
Good point. I think I was more getting at people who are against the idea because the North have no good players or because we'd lose our identity or other silly reasons. It's sad to see how little respect people have for our national history when they can say things like a unified Irish team would take away from our national identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
northern protestants would be dead against it anyway so its all a non starter.
What about the rugby though? My (very limited) rugby knowledge is that rugger is more a Protestant game up there? No problems with the one team though.
Anyone considering a joint team after what they did during the WC qualifiers in 1993 should be ashamed.... Not in a Billion Years... no f**king way!
Even if they had all the best players and we had nothing, i wouldnt change my mind.
I dont agree with a United Ireland rugby team and playing that stupid song...
If we ever govern Northern Ireland, fine.. but until then....
there is still a bit of agro about rugby. Namely that the Irish national anthem is played at all. The other problem is the flag be flown.
don't see any big loss in terms of uefa influence. a few less suits might get to go on holiday but other than that...
as for the UK factor. ask a scottish person where they're from. most of them and the welsh have a separte national identity from the english.
NI and ireland merging teams is a completely different kettle of fish to scotland wales and england merging.
I'm not pushed myself but I'd love to see a unified league and the end result of that would probably be a unified team. but it's all at least 10 years away anyway at which point the general consensus will have changed anyway
I think the remark was made acknowledging that aside from the obvious politics and seciurity involved it would be nice to see.
I do think though that allot of people would change their tune if NI had a Damian Duff at their disposal, but they obviously don't so it's easy to dismiss the idea and cite history/politics etc as the reason.
From a purely footballing perspective I have to amit it's something I think about from time to time. Hypathetically I try to assess who'd be an asset to our current set up, as has been done already on this thread.
There's too much sh1te involved though, so it won't happen any time soon...
now since we are on the subject anyone know what will happen if london gets the olympics? it seems that the host nation automatically qualify for the olympics so it seem like great britian will have to put in a football team. this could lead to a big problem, since most of the players will be english anyway. what will happen if they refuse to put in a footy team will this hamper there chances of getting the olympics?
Yes. I've heard Jeffrey Donaldson say as much. [sorry if this has stepped over the politics line]Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
A united team would be the way to go. We shouldn't look at it from the point of view of "what players would we gain?" - This is narrow minded and misses the point.
The real reason this would make sense is because almost every single other sport one can think of is organised on an all-Ireland basis.
Although the Germanies and the Koreas did't merge their teams (while they maintained separate juristictions), it wouldn't have been unnatural. Essentially what the two Irelands, two Germanies and two Koreas have in common is that they are countries divided by ideology, but the same country nonetheless. Its not like we're trying to Merge with Wales, or Bulgaria with Romania, just to gain some advantage!
On where they might play, I woundn't have a problem with sharing the matches around the cities - two games in Dublin for every one in Belfast (maybe even some games in Cork if we ever get a suitable stadium! :p )
What about sharing your team with the scumbags who jeered the Rangers players at Lansdowne? or the Bohs fans who chanted abuse at Lee Feeney only last week?? Scumbags are scumbags and they appear everywhere. Don't forget that these are not the only people in Northern Ireland, they are not representative of general opinion. The ones that came to Windsor in '93 were hooligans intent on trouble, NOT football fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
You're confusing the concepts of nation and state. There are two different states on this island, but neither one has a monopoly on the concept Ireland, even though Free-staters seem to think they do!Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
If France and Germany wanted to join together THAT would be a marriage of convenience! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Sudent
too true :(Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
From a football perspective, we've nothing to gain currently but if you go back a couple of years, Northern Ireland were a respected team and teams genuinely feared going to Windsor Park because they knew the team was going to be tough. Who's to say they won't start producing again?
Before people take a moral high ground on their supporters, consider the booing Rangers players get in Lansdowne...Those in Windsor Park booing that night were scum but there is plenty of scum in Lansdowne too.
Aside from football, there are plenty of gung-ho Young Irelanders on this site who seem to be completely against this as it will destroy our identity and we'll lose our anthem and our flag.
Surely, in the face of the entire Anglo-Irish history, a few things stand out. Firstly, if a few colours on a flag and a few verses of song are the only things we have to give up to get a peaceful united Ireland, it can't be that bad?
Secondly, surely the identity that nationalists aspire to is one of a united Ireland of different peoples and not a Catholic one of tricolours and Soldier's Songs calling people to arms to knife the Brits?
Sport and politics will always be linked and if they have managed to maintain a united Ireland rugby team, I don't see why any nationalist on this site would be against a united Ireland football team. Just my two cents...
The (English) FA would never let this happen as they would lose a valuable vote at FIFA/UEFA Congress.
They can currently count on 5 votes - England, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland and of course Rep.of Ireland. We would always vote with them as it affects our players in their league.
Best is a fcuking idiot. Can't think why anyone should take him seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by loscherland
He's talkin the gargle again :rolleyes:
The gob****e believes 'a united side could be a force if they pooled their resources'. How the hell did he come up with that one. :confused:
Can't quite see brunt partnering keane in the middle or jones doin us any favours up front.
You get all sorts of people at every match and some find it accecptable to Boo and jeer other players because of their religion, colour and team they play for... Like we saw coming from our fans towards Rangers players and against Ronaldo This is disgraceful and I personally would not jeer a player unless it was called for ( by him playing in and unsporting manner, diving, bad tackles ect)...
I am completely against a united Ireland team because firstly it would be of no advantage to us at the moment, but if they did have top class players to offer I would still be against it... We would loose our Identity as a nation..Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
you say loosing a few colours on a flag and a few verses of a song wouldn't be that bad.. If they take that away from us what do we have left :mad: .. What did the people of Ireland fight and die for, for hundreds of years.. just so we can give away our identity so easily..... :mad:
I find you comments ignorant and highly offensive.. just hope your in the minority in this country otherwise were fu*ked :mad:
My opposition to a 32 county football team has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of Norn Iron at the moment.
One of the best things we have going for us is the cameraderie & unity we have. This is why our away trips are so special. The national team comes first for us and there is no political statement on show - the only statement is that we're Irish & love our football team. Other countries have factions within their support based on club loyalties or regional differences. I don't want to be half the way around the world and being suspicious of my peers or having to hold back and behave all PC in the company of other Ireland fans. And I'm not even a dark green nationalist.
Uniting the two teams would only introduce a fractious influence to our support and would take away the essence of what we're about as Ireland football fans. The Saipan "civil war" was bad enough without having potential differences of opinion on sovereignty thrown into the mix.
Has the world time clock suddenly stopped? Will Brunt and Keane still be playing in 20 years or so? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlest Hobo
Don't agree. Team-wise, we had no problems when Alan Kernaghan - a former NI youth international - was playing for us (well, morale- and spirit-wise anyway! :) )Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Fan-wise, the Derry lads currently support Ireland - you'll always see them in the North Terrace in Lansdowne for the competitive games, and they are one of the best for helping with the atmosphere. Many Catholics (correct me if I'm wrong here) in the North support Ireland. It's been happening all the time. You're not going to suddenly get a huge amount of Union Jack wearing Ian Paisley loving trouble-causing people (not suggesting the three are necessarily interlinked, incidentally) heading on away trips.
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
Can't be that much effort to type full words, surely?!
Mate, if you rely on a flag and a song for an identity, that's your problem, not mine. If Ireland or Irishness or whatever that means relies solely on symbols for an identity, it's fairly empty, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eire06
Symbols are only symbols, that's all...If you can grasp that, let me know.
If you want to bring the martyr thing into it, they certainly didn't fight and die for a flag and a song, they fought for the right to live without interference. The song was only written in 1907, it was only adopted in 1924, the flag isn't too much older and does the flag not preach reconciliation anyway?
Let's amalgamate the two teams.
Then put all the Dublin and Beldast politicians against the wall
Then merge the 2 parts of the country into a Peoples Socialist Republic.
I don't mind where the matches are played
indeed, an irish flag of only green is what we should be aspiring to in my book. a la pearse and the boys.
in any case. the point is we'd be selecting players off a p opulation nearing 6 million - in 20 years that would give us a much better pool of players.
They are symbols which are part of our history and part of who we are today.. And I don't see it as a problem :confused: and no my 'Irishness' does not soely rely on the flag and national anthem, but they are part of it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
I can see were not going to agree on this so to stop this from getting all political and stuff we'll agree to disagree..
well said Stuttgart88 :D
Bóllocks ! A few colours on a flag a few notes in song dont count for much? A national team is the few things we have and I for one dont want to throw it away for nothing. Ripping down a successful team is not going to help bring peace and ur talking through ur rear end if you think it will. Soccer has nothing to do with the peace process.Quote:
Surely, in the face of the entire Anglo-Irish history, a few things stand out. Firstly, if a few colours on a flag and a few verses of song are the only things we have to give up to get a peaceful united Ireland, it can't be that bad?
There should be a distinction between merging the two teams and the north joining the south.
If the north wants to start playing in the existing republic team then thats fair enough. I would be happy to see some of them in the squad (if they are good enough). Maybe we can play a few extra friendlies in Belfast.
However I totally against breaking up a sucessfull Irish team, flag, anthem, manager, for a bunch of northerns, who deep down dont really want to play. Even the FAI are better than the IFA and thats really saying something !
As the old biddy says on the tv ad for saving energy......................its all a load of twaddle :DQuote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Excuse me? I know well the difference between nation and state. The two states are the Republic and the UK. This all Ireland national team would cross two states. The two nations are the Unionist and the Nationalist for want of better labels. So we would have an Irish team containing two nations cross over two states. Doesn't make any sense. Other than the fact we all occupy the same island what makes us so much different to joining up for convenience than Germany and France?Quote:
Originally Posted by crc
jaysis lads, i thought we talking ball here.
Bloody politix should be banned in ere. :mad: Always the same crap about the ireland/uk historical thing hijacking the stage :(
wasnt there a player who played rugby for ireland who used to tear off the shamrock from the jersey before each game?
do we want sh*t like that in football........
My history is not great but did "Pearse and the boys" not raise the Tricolour on the GPO in 1916 or am I mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
This replaced the old green flag with gold harp.
The Tricolour as we know is green for ireland, orange for the boys up north with white reconciling them both in the middle. Am I mistaken ?
The little RA lads have tended to cloud the facts over years and forget exactly WHO fought for independence for this country - Protestants and English Catholics - FACT.
Men like Wolfe Tone, Roger Casement, Douglas Hyde, Erskine Childers and so on.
Poor old Besty. What have you done. I've been unable to see the reaction of the lads on ourweeminds but I bet along with Dougan, the old souse will not be having his face added to that mural on the footbridge near Saxe-Gotha-Coburg Park.
Give Besty a break - if not a new liver. He's living in the seventies when such an idea would have got some support. He's of the belief that a Brady or Giles or Heighway would have meant him going to Mexico, Germany, Argentina, possibly Spain and him never becoming the alky he did.
A few generalisations here. Like all NI fans are scum.
And let's not forget some grade A cojones like this...
Oh, and for those that are concerned about the flag, the last time I looked at it a third of it was Orange.Quote:
Originally Posted by barglee
Jonathan Swift wrote a satire about two peoples going to war over which way was best to eat an egg. When people get so wound up about flags and anthems, it reminds me of that.
Lopez, you're spot on about the NI generalisation rubbish going on here.
The french gave us the tricolour, as to when this happened i dont know but i have a feeling it was around the 1798 rebellion
The national flag of Ireland is a tricolour of green, white and orange. The flag is twice as wide as it is high. The three colours are of equal size and the green goes next to the flagstaff.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
The flag was first introduced by Thomas Francis Meagher in 1848 who based it on French tricolour.
The green represents the older Gaelic tradition while the orange represents the supporters of William of Orange. The white in the centre signifies a lasting truce between the 'Orange' and the 'Green'.
It was not until the Rising of 1916, when it was raised above the General Post Office in Dublin, that the tricolour came to be regarded as the national flag.
It is now enshrined in the Constitution of Ireland.
For example, assume these were the terms and conditions of a united ireland team, would you agree?
1 The team would be known just as Ireland
2 They would play in the same style jerseys as now, prominently green, with a new crest, which would contain a shamrock.
3 The majority of games would be played in Dublin, with approx 2 each year in Belfast
4 The national anthem would still be played at home AND away games
5 The Irish tricolour would still be flown along with a new united ireland/united fai/ifa flag
6 The headquarters of the new fai/ifa would be in Dublin
7 If it were to happen now, Brian Kerr would remain as manager, with Sanchez in an advisory role if desired
8 Finally if the two associations were combined, the eircom league and the Irish league would also have to be unified-this in theory could be a very good thing for the standard of football in the country.
Personally I could never see the IFA agreeing to the above terms, therefore I do not see why we should form a united Ireland team, if the above were satisfied I would be more than happy.
If this unification was to take place (don't see it happening myself, not that I'm adverse to it) I'd imagine that those who presently follow the north will support England (if they don't already ;) ). I've always thought that nationalists in the Six Counties support the 26 regardless.
Mind you, it'll Be interesting to see if any 'special' chants are sang about this at Old Trafford on Saturday. All the English people that I know who are going are expecting a bit of a 'love in'.