ok den. the first is my opinion and the second is fact. both are valid points in the debate i think ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
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ok den. the first is my opinion and the second is fact. both are valid points in the debate i think ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
sweet jesus :p !! tactics weren't his strong points! speaks volumes :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by londonred
if mick had a clue about tactics we would have went further in the WC
and if we're bringin his tactical awareness into question, how about his man-management??
^^^
thats not imaginative, thats down-right silly :D
i'll leave the silliness to the kerry men
Main difference in my mind can be summed up as follows, McCarthy gave 23 caps out against Nigeria in a friendly before the WC2002, Kerr had Miller and Reid holding the ball up in the corner at the end of the game last wednesday, Kerr is methodical and cautious, but we won't see if that's worth anything for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Fact is that no-one can give an example of too many improvements, anyone who mentions Kerr's away draw in france can easily have our away draws in Holland and Portugal brought up as evidence of McCarthy's abilities.
If anything, Kerr has a better starting eleven and squad than McCarthy had, although there are players who the former is getting more out of (although Kilbane's resurgence is probably more down to Moyes).
The FAI as an organisation hasn't changed much at all, they're still an incompetent old boys club from what I can see, although we seem to be attracting a better quality of Friendly opposition, and under Kerr, the EL fans have been well looked after in terms of our allocation.
If we get to WC2006, we'll see if Kerr's organizational skills can outdo McCarthy, we still haven't gotten past the second round since 1990 so that'd be nice.
well said tiktok....good level headed synopsis.
everyone from cork seems to put there cork hats on and argue pro cork and everone from outside cork have anti cork opinions. what if keane was from roscommon/tipperary.
anyway in my opinion everyone one was at fault (boring or what).
on this page alone you can see that cosmo, macy and colinR are being totally level-headed and sensible in their approah to this topic. they don't seem to be anti-cork. and maybe i am biased for roy but i can assure you there are quite a number of corkonians who are anti-roy!
roy has been called alot of things so far.. a horrible embassador for ireland??... that is total BS. roys does so much for charity and sick children and is a model professional.
that said, there were a few parties at fault for saipan.
oh and i don't no about roy being from tipp/roscommon but i guarantee he would be supported to the end by all people if he was a dub :rolleyes:
but what can you do shur
Sounds like you're quite at home with geographical racism yourself... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_rules_ie
i have no problem with dubs bein good footballers and making a success of their careers. pity that some sectors can't accept roy as a footballing great.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
ans slk as i have already stated many cork people dislike roy too, i'm not geographically racial mi amigo :rolleyes:
'on this page alone you can see that cosmo, macy and colinR are being totally level-headed and sensible in their approah to this topic. they don't seem to be anti-cork.'
For the record i dont particularly like cork people :eek:
Yet you've already managed to throw jibes at Dublin and Kerry in this thread. Weird huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_rules_ie
Has Kerr got us to a world cup finals? When he does, then maybe you can think of calling him a superior manager. McCarthy was probably the best manager the Republic of Ireland has had to date. I think Kerr will be better in the long run, but right now, he's proved nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_rules_ie
i was simply referring to the comment that roy is a 'horrible ambassador' for ireland. what a horrible man he is :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
women's intuition.. call it what you will! IMO kerr has proved he is a good manager and i feel, like you Eanna, that he indeed will be a great one. he is superiorQuote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
It's funny that Saipan has created this Roy -v- Mick split where neither side dares to acknowledge the merits of the other. It's resulted in a load of people being of the impression that McCarthy was a poor manager, which he wasn't, he was fine, an improvement on Charlton anyway, though the man got us to major finals, we're still living with the tags of being a physical long ball side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Dont think McCarthy was that great to be honest (ignoring the Saipan incident etc)... Getting to WC2002 was great, but missing out on France98, and Euro2000 were missed oppertunities. We were a better team, man for man, than the Belgians and probably as good as the Turks in 2000... we should have shut those games against Macedonia etc down, it was very sloppy that last minute corner in Skjope (or Titov Vales or where ever it was). Mick had 3 tournaments to qualify for :-
France 98.
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We had Romania, ourselves, Lithuania, Macedonia, Iceland and Litchenstein. Romania were a good side and had a 100% record till the last match except 1 draw. I'd still like to think our team of 96-97 could have matched them or at least won at home - but we finished 10 points behind them (28pts, we had 18pts). That was sloppy. We drew at home with Iceland (0-0), lost in Macedonia (3-2 the McAteer tackle game), lost in Romania (tricky fixture - fair enough), and then drew at home to Lithuania and Romania (should have picked up at least 4 points there, if not 6). We woefully underperformed for that tournament. I'd like to think with better performances we could have piped Romania - if not we could have picked up points against the lesser teams and taken the best European second place slot (which the Scots got) and gone to France that way.
Euro 2000
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The former Yugoslav group:-
Croatia, ourselves, Yugoslavia, Macedonia, the Maltese.
We had a decent start, beat the Croats 2-0, and the Maltese 5-0 (both home) - good results. Then went down 1-0 in Belgrade, but beat them 2-1 at LR. We then lost 1-0 in Croatia and just beat Macedonia 1-0 at LR, and again a narrow win (3-2) in Malta. The final match was vs Macedonia which we drew 1-1. Had we won that, which we should have - we would have gone thru in 1st place. But the truth was our away form was very poor, we lost against the 2 bigger teams and our performances in Valetta and Skjope were poor. The Croats and Yugoslavs drew their games against each other which meant they picked up only 2 points from those games - those were great results from our point of view and we should have exploited that and done better.
The net result was from post Usa94 to Wc2002 we were probably the best team not to qualify for a major tournament, 2/3rds of that was on Mick's watch - that was a poor showing.
Ironically the one Mick got us to, was the one where we had the hardest group (Us, Portugal, Dutch, Estonia, Cyprus and Andorra) - we did very well to get thru that group as on paper we were the 3rd strongest team, but we finished level on points with the Portuguese (who got 1st place) and 4 above the Dutch. I'd also say he should never have let Kilbane and Ratboy take the pens vs Spain, as sure as night follows day Ratboy was going to muck up that pen, he should have put Clinton on instead of Ratboy, and/or he should have got Duff (or forced Quinn) to take pens.
Also dont forget the results in Moscow and vs the Swiss at LR were poor imo.
As always you miss the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
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Originally Posted by 1MickCollins
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Originally Posted by 1MickCollins
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Originally Posted by martin_rules_ie
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Originally Posted by martin_rules_ie
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Originally Posted by martin_rules_ie
QUOTE=martin_rules_ie]on this page alone you can see that cosmo, macy and colinR are being totally level-headed and sensible in their approah to this topic, they don't seem to be anti-cork.[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_rules_ie
Cork has spoken! Super-intellects, what chance have the rest of us got?
Roy Keane may "unquit" after all: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlin...325008&cc=5739
Not unexpected.
I guess there is a fine line between quitting and negotiating a new contract :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Metrostars
Obviously he can't go on forever, but he does, like Man U, seem
to be going through a period of improved form.
Cork has spoken! Super-intellects, what chance have the rest of us got?[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
This forum is dying if this is what you are going to sink to, stop bashing players and other posters and start being constructive.
He actually said as things stand this'll be his last contract. If his body is still in good shape, and he's still good enough for United then he may play on. Do you actually listen to him speak, or hear some gobshíte like Des Cahill say it so it must be true?Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
It's straight copy out of the Mirror! :confused:
Well, what he said (i.e. it was on the radio this morning of him actually speaking rather than a quote in a paper) is that he still sees it as his last contract, but if he feels up to it and the management team of Fergie, Queiroz and Phelan think he's still good enough he may reconsider. He was quite clear that he'd only stay on for United - so Davros won't see his dream of Keane in a Celtic shirt...
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Originally Posted by Éanna
Rubbish, hes already proven that he can win championships and tournaments.
If McCarthy was a good "Manager" he would have handled the Saipan affair with some degree of professionalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
There's more to football management than results on the pitch.
would you mind elaborating on that?Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
certain people on this forum are pessimistic armchair managers. they will not listen to anyones take on a certain issue and have a black and white perception of things. while it is unfair to say that mick was totally at fault for saipan (the FAI equally deserved blame).
kerr is a better manager than mccarthy
ireland are a different team with keane (and why should he play meaningless friendlies when we know what he is capable of. why should he cripple himself to wear the green shirt? roy loves his football and he can prolong his career by playing important games (ie qualifiers)
people love to stir the sh*t here by knocking keane no matter what he does. if he does sign a new contract with manu, so what??
keane in his early days as a footballer had a bad temper which opponents used against him but that is no longer an issue. keane supposedly called mccarthy a w*nker (which he is) but should have not said it publicly.
the above IMO are his faults. he does NOT put club before country. he simply has a view that friendly games are taking years off his career. i'd rather he miss friendlies and be there for our big games that really count.
mccarthy has good points, he got us to WC2002. but he did not get us to WC98, euro2000 and destroyed our hopes of euro 2004. mccarthy was not great with man management. his biggest fault was innterogating keane in front of his fellow players.
kerr has not put a foot wrong so far. he cannot be blamed for the failure to qualify for euro 2004
LOL No allowance that Keane may have good points either though Conor? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
red cards are down to his temper which is no longer a problem with him. i'd rather roy get red cards for being passionate and getting stuck in than someone like holland who gets lost in some games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
the foul on haaland was provoked. it was a nasty thing to do but we all make mistakes and i doubt roy thought the challenge was going to end his career. has roy's drinking which is over-hyped ever effected his playing performances?? NO
chasing refs? how many players sprint 30 yards on a pitch to give out to refs? thats not a fault, its part of the modern game unfortunately.
roy had to decide if changes had been made before he could return and also wether his body could take it.
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Originally Posted by Conor74
i'm not even going to argue with you about that.. :rolleyes:
it is truly ridiculous to judge him on these games. Fair judgement can only be made at the end of a qualifying campaign not two games. Brian Kerr has shown an outstanding ability to get the best from players in his charge evidenced in the trophies he has won to dateQuote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
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Originally Posted by Conor74
you are such a narrow minded individual
how does this prove your point?
were you trying to be funny or was that a serious comment? either way you sounded like an ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
i think cowboy meant after kerr has a full qualification campaign, judgement can be made fairly! :rolleyes:
He'd just be moving from one British team playing at the top of a good league to another British team playing at the top of an extremely average league. What that has to do with the eL is beyond me.Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
sorry if i seem a bit stupid here, but i think i'm totally missing your point here. are you saying that if roy signed for celtic that would make his 'supporters' in cork back down in support for him? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
and what would this have to do with CCFC?? :confused:
i love this board! comedy.... :D
i wouldnt waste my time PMing you mi amigo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
i didnt call you an ass, i said you sounded like one in a previous post.
ok let me rephrase it: your posts give off a narrow-minded attitude ;)
Yes of course they did but he was not in charge of the complete campaign nor did he have time to run a few friendlies before hand, I think you know this and are being mischievious. If we are to use your logic he should have been sacked after these games. To ignore the reality of the situation he found himself in is truly weakQuote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Fact is he our most successful manager at underage level and I have no doubt he will go on to be our most successful at senior level.
here here :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy
I dont believe anyone here has pretended those games did not exist. I'm not using a crystal ball, my view is based on several factors among those being Brian Kerrs undoubted talent as a manager , his attention to preparation and detail and his man management skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Wins per games played at this point in his career is of little benefit to a balanced view, time will tell. I choose to await the outcome, it seems you choose to judge on selectively limited evidence.
ya you proved your point there..... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
well said that man :) Why doesn't Keane just answer every question with "Ask Alex", he might as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Conor74