Are they that different from where Wexford Youths would have been at their outset ? Happy to be corrected if so.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
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Are they that different from where Wexford Youths would have been at their outset ? Happy to be corrected if so.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
In all fairness, I think Cabinteely have been a grand addition to the league.
The attitude they have towards the league is the important thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Imagine the horror show some of the clubs that moaned about not being let in would be if they have LOI teams. Fielding teams in a league in which teams that actually want to be there find it difficult and this other lot then almost doing it under protest. No thanks.
A team in Navan would find it very tough to draw any type of meaningful supporter base. In Meath, gaelic football is king and always will be, even if the county team has gone to sh!te recently. Navan has a decent population (around 30k i think) and a big catchment area, but there's a bunch of v well established and successful GAA clubs in and around the town (O'Mahoney's, Simonstown, Senchalstown, Wolfe Tones, Rathkenny, Skryne etc) and Navan rugby club has been very prominent in the town for years too. Navan Cosmos and Park Villa are decent football teams but it's a gaelic football town, with rugby and football battling it out for a distant 2nd place. Same applies for other urban centres like Ashbourne.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Also, Colm O'Rourke still has a big influence in Navan. He's the principal in the main boys secondary school in the town (which has about 1000 pupils listed at any time). He's involved with the school's gaelic football teams and they are usually v good. I don't think the school has ever even had a soccer team. which further entrenches the GAA dominance.
GAA dominance hasn't stopped Kerry teams being part of the old U21 league, defunct A Championship and recent U17 league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
The upcoming U15 league and existing LoI underage leagues are a suitable platform for soccer people in Meath or any area.
I'm not saying it can't be done - simply explaining that Navan (and Meath in general) is not, and never has never been a hotbed for soccer so a LOI club would find it hard to survive. I heard recently that we've never had anyone from the county earn a cap for the ROI team. There's very little tradition of soccer in Meath, even less than Kerry i'd say. At least you have Tralee Dynamos who've been interested in joining the LOI in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Our proximity to Dublin probably hasn't helped though. The best kids in the meath leagues are quickly spotted and brought to a Dublin club or Drogheda boys if they're good enough so our underage (club and representative) teams tend to be quite weak too. It's a cycle which perpetuates itself. The biggest club in the county would be Parkvilla in Navan. They're a middling LSL team and have never shown any interest in becoming a LOI club. Maybe they know that it would be too much of a struggle.
If that's the lie of the land, it's the way it is. Hopefully as the underage leagues become established, more areas will join.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
I just don't see what's in it for 99%+ of current non-LOI teams to want to enter the senior ranks to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Beyond Board room ego or ill-defined ideas of 'ambition', why would they ? It's a huge step-up in costs with little additional income generated, and they'll have seen the likes of strong clubs like Monaghan, Kilkenny, St Francis etc give it a go and get their fingers burned. Much simpler and strategically beneficial for clubs to instead focus on their own facilities, their underage set up etc, rather than roll the financial dice on joining a League that most of them look down on anyway.
Until the FAI pumps significantly more money into the prize funds available for finishing at every rung of the senior ladder, I just don't see what's in it for anyone new to join. The lack of clubs knocking on the FAI's door for entry would seem to support that view as well.
The reason the DDSL clubs want to join is to prevent their players leaving to join the Dublin LOI underage setups from 14 years old.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
They could run an amateur team of their 18 and 19 year olds in the LOI first division...finish bottom every year and still get the transfer fees to the UK for the kids they send over at 15.
Your post seems to suggest that there is a movement amongst DDS clubs to want to game the LOI First Division to take advantage of overseas transfer fees.
Is there any evidence of this ? Which DDSL clubs are genuinely trying to join the LOI ? Have any of them expressed a firm interest (St Kevin's was mentioned above, but it seemed to be more rumour than fact) ? I can't see the FAI wanting more Dublin clubs in the League anyway, so what clubs want and what they may be able to get could be too very different things.
Even if there was a few looking to join - I still can't see the economics of it working out. How much in transfer fees do these clubs genuinely pocket in the average year ? And how would that compare to the cost of having to run a senior club in a national league ? And how much would the underage development etc suffer (and thereby the pot f gold at the end of the rainbow) if the same small pool of volunteers were having to run a senior club as well as their usual underage set up ? They'd attract very little if any additional help by being a senior club, so someone has to cover the additional workload involved
St Kevin's def were in contact with the FAI about joining the 1st Div. more info here - http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31518488.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Thanks - an interesting read.
It's probably unfair to assume the FAI refused entry to them just because they didn't want too many Dublin clubs. Surely it was that, combined with the fact that they thought there were other Dublin Clubs who's involvement was preferable ? In which case I can't see how they would get into a First Division that currently contains 3 Dublin clubs out of 8 already ? In otherwords, a) Already contains too many Dublin clubs, and b) Has others that are in a stronger position to make a claim on a place than St Levin's ? Cabinteely were 'right time, right place' lucky to get in when the FAI were desperate to not have a ridiculous 7 team league, but I can't see that being repeated unless something unexpected happens.
Also - is it just me or is there something grubby about a boy's team wanting to join the senior set-up entirely to pursue player sell-on fees?
We'll see over the next few years. There is support in some quarters for an intermediary league. Again I can't see it being given consideration until the U13 league is in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
If non-LoI teams are in the underage leagues and an intermediary/U23 league is formed, it would seem fair to invite them as well.How that might lead to any joining senior ranks will be up to the powers that be.
Heard a ridiculous rumour Mullingar town are looking to join the league. Didn't one of the Mullingar teams make a big push years back to try get in and it went tits up? Would be great for ourselves and athlone to have another Derby but wouldn't see them having any support or facilities.
That was about 15 years ago alright; maybe even longer.
Had a team full of foreigners too - Nigerians and Poles and all sorts. This was in the days before that kind of stuff of course! Was a weird one.
Yep, a Mullingar bloke who had gone to England and made a bit of money had hoped to create a LOI club in his home town. Not sure why he chose Mullingar Town, because they've always been the v poor neighbour of Mullingar Athletic - the big club in town. Athletic have always been very well run and have outstanding facilities and big membership. They won an FAI award for best junior club in the country a few yrs back. They have 5/6 pitches that are like billiard tables and a few astros, one of them full size, lovely big clubhouse - they'd put a lot of LOI clubs to shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
Anyway, i think the deal was that Mullingar Town and their new investor were allowed to enter a team into the u21 (as it was then) league and if they showed enough progress and won the u21 league they'd be considered for entry into the senior league. They brought a coach and a whole squad over from England - all lads from in and around London who had been trialists at football league teams but hadn't made the grade. I think they were all getting between 100-200 quid a week. They did ok for a few yrs in their u21 leinster group - think they finished 2nd or 3rd, but then the team was pulled out. Not sure if their investor lost interest/money or if they were eventually denied entry to the senior division or what, but the dream died after a few yrs and they went back to being a v ordinary junior club. They had an ok little pitch with a small shed on one side and a small astro but nothing else. And they were located in a less than desirable part of the town.
Funnily enough, around that same time (early to mid noughties), Mullingar Athletic were considering becoming a LOI club one day too, so they also entered a team into the u21 league. So, for a few yrs i think there were 2 LOI u21 teams in the town, but they played in different groups (Leinster had double the amount of teams to every other province so they split it into 2). Unlike Town, Athletic had a squad full local lads, only a couple of whom got any money. They finished mid table for about 2/3 yrs in a row but then i think they pulled out too. I think they realised that there would never have been enough support in the town to keep a senior LOI club afloat. I think Athletic are back playing in the midlands league now, where they're one of the top teams along with a couple of good junior clubs from Athlone.
found an old article explaining the Mullingar Town set-up from that period - http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-26078551.html
They seem to get mentioned from time to time because of the year they applied to join. Like everyone else, they'll link up with the underage leagues first if they are genuinely interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
Yeah I've seen the facilities out at Athletic, absolutely unreal. If they could build a stand like in Feerycarrig it would be more than suitable as a LOI ground apart from the distance it is outside the town. The ground would need to be bang centre if Mullingar if they were to ever attract anyone to games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
I recall being told some years back that there was such bad blood between the two Mullingar teams that the fans/members of one would rather support Longford than the other lot if they were in the LOI. They didn't like Athlone either apparently.
I guess the reason Athletic were able to purchase such a large amount of land and build such excellent facilities is precisely.yhat reason - because its so far outta the town.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
There was talk of building a little stand back in the day when they had an u21 team but that quickly disappeared.
@outspoken: really interested to hear where that rumour came from. Do you rem if it was Town or Athletic? I cant imagine it was town, their club consists of a pitch at the back of a housing estate. I dont even think they have any underage teams. It would have to be Athletic if the rumour was true. Fair play to them if they go for it. They're an excellent club, sensibly run and are well liked in the community. I can't imagine there would be any talk of titles or getting into europe. They'd be more of a Cabinteely type of addition to the league than a Sporting Fingal, unless they've got a secret investor of course.
I'd guess that would be the view from Town. They're the poor relations and seem to bear a lot of ill will toward Athletic. They're always in Athletic's shadow and have an "us against the world" mentality, which might explain their dislike for Athlone too. While Athletic folk probably don't love Town either, I dont think they spend too much time thinking about them to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
How many other junior sides in the country would be in a similar position, in terms of facilities?
Ive never been to Salthill Devon's ground but its supposed to be excellent, but of course the aren't a prospective LOI team any more given the agreement with Galway utd.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
There are plenty of clubs around the country with a decent pitch and a bit of astro but the amount of pitches and the quality of Mullingar Athletic is really praiseworthy. Its 5/6 yrs since ive been there but they had at least 4 excellent grass pitches at the time, a full size astro and 2 small 5-a-side astros, two storey clubhouse with a shop. They might have developed even more since then.
I am from Mullingar so let me answer a few of your points (early in the morning)Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
The big club in the town will, and always will be, Mullingar Town, cause they are in the town itself, and are the original team. They always organise local town leagues during the summer as well, that further strengthen the bond of the town to the team.
Athletic on the other hand, are the team of, how should I say.......the more well do to types....the sons of Garda and the like. Unlike Town who are in one of the worst areas you could possibly imagine. There was full scale riot near there a while back, with helicopters from Dublin and the riot sqaud!
Yes they did bring over a star squad from England a few years. It did create huge excitment in the town, and was fun at the time. It mostly was done to try and propel them into the LOI. The FAI rejected them twice, over Dublin city and Kildare county, so how well did that go. At least Mullingar Town had real money behind it from a local who does care about the club and the town. I guess he cant do much with the team if he isnt in the good books of the FAI.
Mullingar Ath also were in the Under 21 league at the time, and yes they have great facilities, but i dont think it is well run at all in terms of developing players. I have seen some seriously gifted players play for them underage just to fall by the wayside due to bad coaching and a lack of a will to progress them. If they cant sell them to England then thats that. Sure they have all the pitches, buts that because they are one of JD's "special clubs"
Now both teams play in **** leagues, which is a terrible shame as both were in the Leinster league a few years ago, which tells you all you need to know about club development.
The manager that came over with the London stars still lives in the town. Nice guy, always in the bookies though,lol!
And yes, to what other posters have mentioned. The two teams HATE each other. I cant see them joining together.
And of course Mullingar has a thing about Athlone, isnt that normal!!
Do athletic sell many to england? I heard of Conor Smith who went to Watford at 16 a few yrs back, but never heard of anyone else. Seems like he's made a living in professional football too - he's playing with Plymouth Argyle now according to wikipedia.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
You're right tho, ive seen some outrageously talented lads at Athletic who never went anywhere. But i know Athletic suffer the same fate as many Meath clubs in that their best kids usually get poached by the dublin clubs. I know a few lads who had played with athletic and then moved to Home Farm, belvo and cherry orchard and the likes. They also battling many of their best teenagers who decide to focus more on GAA instead. And I think every club loses teenagers who invariably arent arsed with football once they discover booze and birds.
Im interested to know more about the supposed cushy relationship between Athletic and JD. Did he give them cash or something? From what I know they bought a big plot outside the town when it was cheap and gradually developed it over time.
Do Town still have that investor? And is there any specific reason why he's not in the FAI good books?
I could have mixed up the two clubs, more likely to be athletic as you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
I think they had someone who was a scout for Blackburn rovers or something, or even Celtic.....but yeah not much progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
Good point about the GAA, and small town distractions........that's definitely true
But you have to remember that Athletic had some good underage teams that were regularly making the FAI cup last 16 year in year out at underage level, and once even getting to the last four one year. Its a shame to see good teams waste away like that.......
Nowadays the meath teams are jumping ahead!! That hurts for a westmeathian!!
If any new team from the midlands were talking about the LOI, id expect it to be Tullamore Town tbh, they have a decent team, but i dont know what their set up is like
I say cosying upto the FAI cause Delaney is always throwing grants at them.....while the Town get nothing, but i guess that's politics.
I think Town still have that investor. He is Mullingar through and through, and is good to the club. I think a lot of people in the town were peed off with the FAI after not getting the application. Maybe they were right, but I mean Dublin city, another Dublin club ffS!!!
For both clubs that was the time to push on through......but now its gone, and both are playing in pish poor leagues.....with feck all interest. But perhaps Athletic have looked at what Cabinteely did.....but i cant imagine how they think they could do this without a half decent enough squad
Cheers for the info Benno. Do you know if Town have any underage teams these days?
Back in the day I remember they only had teams at 1 or 2 age groups, while Athletic had about 2 teams at every age group!
@Mods, sorry for dragging this whole thread off on a tangent about a possible team in Mullingar. You can move it to a separate thread if necessary.
I don't think any potential new club in the league should be entering based on whether or not their current first team would be good enough. First and foremost, structures and facilities should be the main priority, they'd have to sign a heap of players for the First Division regardless.
It would be great to see a team from Mullingar in the league. I think it's a town that could really get behind a senior football team.
Yeah but you dont want a situation like Salthill Devon, getting beaten every week. Do they have enough in place to have a regular supply of players good enough for the LOI, despite them currently playing in a midlands league or something?
They should at least try and get back into the leinster senior league, to see how they'd manage with a gradual step up. Signing players could be a nightmare for them....
Should they make efforts to join the League of Ireland's U15, U17 and U19 leagues? I thought that's the route now for those with aspirations to join the league?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Well we don't even know if either of the Mullingar clubs are actually considering joining at any level. This whole thread is based off a rumour that Outspoken heard. We don't know if there's anything to it at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Saying that, i was surprised that Mullingar Athletic didn't have teams in the national underage leagues. As mentioned here earlier, they tend to have outstanding underage teams and always seemed like an ambitious club. On the other hand, maybe they applied but were turned down because we already have Athlone and Longford in the midlands. Who knows...
Interestingly though, their ground has been one of the FAI emergeing talent centres of excellence, ahead of either Athlone or Longford. They're the only location in the midlands.
I'm throwing the question out there for those more in the know really. Can we dismiss rumours like this as nonsense if these clubs are not showing interest in linking up with the underage leagues which must surely be the first step?Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
It would seem like a sensible first step all right, but I don't think it's necessarily a prerequisite before joinong the senior league.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Are St Kevins Boys the only club known to have shown some interest since last new club joined the league?
People still melt over a team being called youths imagine their reaction to st Kevin's boys
Presumably their first team would be called St.Kevin's Men.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
Athlone Town supporters trust have told the FAI they intend applying for a first division licence
So basically athlone are f*cked unless the supporters can pull this off?Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepersBall