Nuts gone at Rovers

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Originally Posted by Longfordian

Again? Wasn't aware he was with Rovers before?

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He worked with Liam Tuohy back when he was starting out. May have been his first job actually.

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Originally Posted by Larry 'da' Wyse

Ian Barraclough in with a shout I wonder?

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If the fans weren't taken with Fenlon's style they're hardly going to get behind Baraclough's.

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Originally Posted by Nah Nah Nah Nah

No one really cares what the football is like when they're winning. O'Neills team were very effective but not great to watch and they were getting huge crowds.

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Oh there were plenty of Rovers who wanted him out as he was winning titles too. 'I've been going to Rovers 40 years but this is the worst I've ever seen us play...' types. As we're beating Partizan Belgrade. Overall you're right though, but the difference is Rovers fans would respond even to a team who create chances but lose. The trouble since MON left is we have these teams who bumble their way creating one or two chances a game.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

He worked with Liam Tuohy back when he was starting out. May have been his first job actually.

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His 'time in purgatory' as he recently called it, he also tends to refer to Rovers as 'that lot', so I doubt he'll be taking the job ;)

I hope Russell gets the job, terrible manager who can't coach teams on how to defend.

Yeah, he'd never take any job at Rovers unless it was Chief Sabotage Officer. Actually maybe he might take the manager's job.

I'm fairly sure there was some disagreement in his time at Rovers relating to the international teams or something that soured his relationship, and then obviously his association with Pats sealed it.

Cheers Charles. I did not know that and nor did Wikipedia when I went to check.

New CEO, new members on the board that are not elected by the membership(?), new manager at some point now so all change in Tallaght and it seems the old guard of the 400 club have been broken up somewhat. Going from having an 'A' team in the 1st Division for 3 seasons to binning it after 1. 3 managers in 4 seasons (not including , Glass, Laws and Bailey now), sacking a manager with 2/3 of a season gone to giving the next man almost 2 full seasons, Fenlon almost the same so at least some little consistency here. Paying off managers, paying managers out on gardening leave and bringing a director of football (wierd one this to take on the additional cost, as not as if a desperate ploy was needed to stave off relegation. Croly in, I vaguely remember it was the amount of draws that really did the damage there and also he seemed just too nice to be Rovers manager - not enough of poking opposition managers in the chest! So after giving the job to a young up and coming manager tack is changed with a manager with a track record of winning titles albeit with hefty budgets. So where to now as it seem all angles have been tried. Gary McCabe is constant from SK's time to now so it is obviously all his fault!
There is the oddity of Croly being M'ONs assistant then, Magilton - was that the club/managers doing or did St Pats want a former club man back on board and then the main job was on offer?

As for the EL money, other threads have shown accounts of cash reserves being decimated over the last 3 years and chunks seem to coincide with managers being payed off...imo! So while the members model was always lauded as a success at Rovers, from the outside it seems as if a group within the members got a stranglehold of the club and seemed untouchable yet there was no cohesive strategy and the people on the board dont seem to be particularly held accountable for all the chopping and changing of direction. Anyway just my wandering thoughts on Rovers toing and froing and not going anywhere fast in any particular direction be it backing youth development ala Rovers A or handing reigns to a manager that's heavy on finances...Paul Doolin.....

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

New CEO, new members on the board that are not elected by the membership(?), new manager at some point now so all change in Tallaght and it seems the old guard of the 400 club have been broken up somewhat. Going from having an 'A' team in the 1st Division for 3 seasons to binning it after 1. 3 managers in 4 seasons (not including , Glass, Laws and Bailey now), sacking a manager with 2/3 of a season gone to giving the next man almost 2 full seasons, Fenlon almost the same so at least some little consistency here. Paying off managers, paying managers out on gardening leave and bringing a director of football (wierd one this to take on the additional cost, as not as if a desperate ploy was needed to stave off relegation. Croly in, I vaguely remember it was the amount of draws that really did the damage there and also he seemed just too nice to be Rovers manager - not enough of poking opposition managers in the chest! So after giving the job to a young up and coming manager tack is changed with a manager with a track record of winning titles albeit with hefty budgets. So where to now as it seem all angles have been tried. Gary McCabe is constant from SK's time to now so it is obviously all his fault!
There is the oddity of Croly being M'ONs assistant then, Magilton - was that the club/managers doing or did St Pats want a former club man back on board and then the main job was on offer?

As for the EL money, other threads have shown accounts of cash reserves being decimated over the last 3 years and chunks seem to coincide with managers being payed off...imo! So while the members model was always lauded as a success at Rovers, from the outside it seems as if a group within the members got a stranglehold of the club and seemed untouchable yet there was no cohesive strategy and the people on the board dont seem to be particularly held accountable for all the chopping and changing of direction. Anyway just my wandering thoughts on Rovers toing and froing and not going anywhere fast in any particular direction be it backing youth development ala Rovers A or handing reigns to a manager that's heavy on finances...Paul Doolin.....

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Keep on wandering aka obsessing and maybe someday you'll stumble across the truth... Or maybe you have !!👽

To follow League of Ireland I think we are all obsessed or masochistic! Either way a health interest in the woes of other clubs is going to be based on often forlorn hopes that things are better at your own club. I'm sure Longfrod fans would give anything t be 4 th, managerless and a European game ahead and have fans of other clubs obsessed :)

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

To follow League of Ireland I think we are all obsessed or masochistic! Either way a health interest in the woes of other clubs is going to be based on often forlorn hopes that things are better at your own club. I'm sure Longfrod fans would give anything t be 4 th, managerless and a European game ahead and have fans of other clubs obsessed :)

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Couldn't agree more albeit the odd period of success helps which our respective clubs provide in a regular basis - can't imagine what it must be like to follow one of the lease lights but I certainly admire their fans perseverance

Trophies would only ruin it.

5 pieces of silverware seem to have busted 4-600 peoples interest in Dundalk going on current attendances - thank Galway it wasnt a clean sweep.......

Now that he's free, Nigel Farage might be a good fit with the Rovers faithful?

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Now that he's free, Nigel Farage might be a good fit with the Rovers faithful?

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No thanks, we're already out of Europe.

Walked in to that one Stu!!:D

Dammit. thought I had nailed it. :)

must try harder...

"he'd bring a different type of nuts to Tallaght"...or..."something something fascist racist something roflmao"

speaking of Tony Cousins why did he leave Galway Utd in his second season in the top flight?

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

They'll light up the first division while still conceding a goal a game with a Premier Division squad.

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He has a Premier Division half dozen. The rest not so much. (I'm not complaining I realise the rest of the division is made up of women children and people with varying degrees of disability.)

Russell teams concede goals. But they also score goals. All the goals in the case of this season.

Pat O'Sullivan got First Division Champions 2016 Limerick FC relegated last year. No one else.

Don't even know why I'm leaping to Russell's defence here I'm not a particularly big fan and I'd like him to get the rovers job because a good old fashioned farcical First Division Champions 2016 Limerick FC manager hunt would lively up the second half of our parade/season.

It's just I think searing insights like "durr dry conseed a gol a game, durr he relageted dem durr can't wait to play dem durr" should have a bit of context added. :good:

Agree with this, Limerick were a mess off the field before the start of last season between player recruitment, Jackman park and banning orders. As soon as July came Russell was allowed to add quality and he almost pulled it off. Always been a massive fan of his. Would take him in a heartbeat here even if it did mean going back down for 1 year at least the football would be attractive.

Good article in the Independent today.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-34856992.html

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

He has a Premier Division half dozen. The rest not so much. (I'm not complaining I realise the rest of the division is made up of women children and people with varying degrees of disability.)

Russell teams concede goals. But they also score goals. All the goals in the case of this season.

Pat O'Sullivan got First Division Champions 2016 Limerick FC relegated last year. No one else.

Don't even know why I'm leaping to Russell's defence here I'm not a particularly big fan and I'd like him to get the rovers job because a good old fashioned farcical First Division Champions 2016 Limerick FC manager hunt would lively up the second half of our parade/season.

It's just I think searing insights like "durr dry conseed a gol a game, durr he relageted dem durr can't wait to play dem durr" should have a bit of context added. :good:

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Durr? Really?

Limerick realistically probably would have stayed up with a premier division team for the whole of last season. I'll grant you that, but even when you were winning games your team was seriously flawed.

The facts are despite having a team that are running away with the first division you have conceded 16 goals in 15 games ("dur dey condeed a gol a game"). This in a division where the other 7 teams are averaging just 1.39 goals per game.

Lets look at your remarkable recovery from beyond the grave last season. Starting with your first win of the season against Sligo in August (incredible by the way) Limerick went on to win 9 games of their next twelve, drawing 2 and losing one. Incredible. In that spell they kept 2 clean sheets, at home to Derry and Rovers in their second and third last games of the season. To be fair they also kept a clean sheet in the first leg against Finn Harps in the playoffs. In those twelve games they conceded 20 goals, including 3 goals on 3 occasions. 1.667 goals per game isn't terrible but its worrying, especially when the team continues to concede in a lower division. You can't keep outscoring teams, not forever.

In the whole of the 2015 Premier Division Season Limerick kept 3 clean sheets total (the third in a 0-0 draw against Derry).

So far in the first division they have managed a few more clean sheets, 5 to be precise. Two of those have come against Cabinteely, two against Athlone and one against Cobh. Interestingly those are the three teams with the fewest goals scored this season. Cabinteely have less than a goal a game scored. Between them they have 48 goals in 45 games played, or 1.067 goals per game.
Limerick have conceded 3 goals twice already this season, against Shels at the end of May and against UCD this weekend. They have conceded twice three times, against Waterford twice and against Drogheda in June. In fact they have conceded 8 goals in their last four games.

Limerick are runing away with the first division and will set all sorts of goalscoring records, but when you are that dominant you should be able to shut out opposing teams more often than you have done. It might be entertainging to watch but it tells me that there is a serious flaw in the way your team is set up. I haven't seen you play this year, but I saw you a few times last season, including that insane game against Sligo to end the season where you were very nearly relegated in stoppage time due to some absoultely insane defending. Enjoy the First Division Romp, but be prepared for some tougher days next season.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Pat O'Sullivan got First Division Champions 2016 Limerick FC relegated last year. No one else.

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Russell had a team in great form going into the playoffs and lost it. Obviously if the budget had been more consistent you'd not have been near it, but I thought he didn't cover himself in glory during those games. For which I'll be eternally grateful.

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

Durr? Really?

Limerick realistically probably would have stayed up with a premier division team for the whole of last season. I'll grant you that, but even when you were winning games your team was seriously flawed.

The facts are despite having a team that are running away with the first division you have conceded 16 goals in 15 games ("dur dey condeed a gol a game"). This in a division where the other 7 teams are averaging just 1.39 goals per game.

Lets look at your remarkable recovery from beyond the grave last season. Starting with your first win of the season against Sligo in August (incredible by the way) Limerick went on to win 9 games of their next twelve, drawing 2 and losing one. Incredible. In that spell they kept 2 clean sheets, at home to Derry and Rovers in their second and third last games of the season. To be fair they also kept a clean sheet in the first leg against Finn Harps in the playoffs. In those twelve games they conceded 20 goals, including 3 goals on 3 occasions. 1.667 goals per game isn't terrible but its worrying, especially when the team continues to concede in a lower division. You can't keep outscoring teams, not forever.

In the whole of the 2015 Premier Division Season Limerick kept 3 clean sheets total (the third in a 0-0 draw against Derry).

So far in the first division they have managed a few more clean sheets, 5 to be precise. Two of those have come against Cabinteely, two against Athlone and one against Cobh. Interestingly those are the three teams with the fewest goals scored this season. Cabinteely have less than a goal a game scored. Between them they have 48 goals in 45 games played, or 1.067 goals per game.
Limerick have conceded 3 goals twice already this season, against Shels at the end of May and against UCD this weekend. They have conceded twice three times, against Waterford twice and against Drogheda in June. In fact they have conceded 8 goals in their last four games.

Limerick are runing away with the first division and will set all sorts of goalscoring records, but when you are that dominant you should be able to shut out opposing teams more often than you have done. It might be entertainging to watch but it tells me that there is a serious flaw in the way your team is set up. I haven't seen you play this year, but I saw you a few times last season, including that insane game against Sligo to end the season where you were very nearly relegated in stoppage time due to some absoultely insane defending. Enjoy the First Division Romp, but be prepared for some tougher days next season.

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Obsessed!

well going by Rover's fans logic when commenting on another club,

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

Lets look at your remarkable recovery from beyond the grave last season. Starting with your first win of the season against Sligo in August (incredible by the way) Limerick went on to win 9 games of their next twelve, drawing 2 and losing one. Incredible. In that spell they kept 2 clean sheets, at home to Derry and Rovers in their second and third last games of the season. To be fair they also kept a clean sheet in the first leg against Finn Harps in the playoffs. In those twelve games they conceded 20 goals, including 3 goals on 3 occasions. 1.667 goals per game isn't terrible but its worrying, especially when the team continues to concede in a lower division. You can't keep outscoring teams, not forever.

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Couple of things here.

1. I think wherever you got your stats you were reading arseways. First Division Champions 2016 Limerick FC lost those two games against derry and shamrock.

2. This period from the Sligo game on (when Russell had been allowed assemble something resembling a squad. Seriously I could post a typical starting eleven from before August that season but I don't want to distress any of the readers here.)

Anyway where was I - ya that final twelve games when we had a few players. First Division Champions 2016 Limerick FC picked up 23 points in those games. For a comparison John Caulfields title chasing cork city, with much greater resources, managed to pick up 22. Not a dig (I would be digging up from the First Division after all) just the easiest comparison for a cork fan.

I don't get this obsession with the goal a game thing. Wexford conceded over a goal a game last season. Go give out to them. I've already acknowledged Russell teams can't defend. If you look at his record with us that's patently obvious. His team's are set up to score more than the opposition. It's simple it's not really debatable. He is what he is.

It's worth bearing in mind aswell that our multi million pound squad has exactly one centre half who is near good enough and two broken goalkeepers, one physically and one mentally. Now of course you could argue that's Russell's fault he should have went out and signed a decent centre half to partner Williams. But he didnt. Because he'd rather use that money on Aaron Greene. Because that's the way he likes his team's to play.

We've average around 1200 in this most remedial of First Divisions. Would we be doing it grinding out the one nils under a Pat Scully? I honestly don't think so.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Russell had a team in great form going into the playoffs and lost it. Obviously if the budget had been more consistent you'd not have been near it, but I thought he didn't cover himself in glory during those games. For which I'll be eternally grateful.

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These things happen in cup football though. Which is essentially what the playoffs are. I've never seen the game in ballybofey but our home leg should have finished around 5 2 which would have maybe been enough going up there. It was your classic bridge too far in the end. We'd all been saying it in the lead up to the end of season some of our players were wrecked from the previous few months. Dean Clarke and Vinny Faherty were absolutely gassed for example. In the end it told.

The die was cast last season when our chairman had a series of breakdowns between January and March. Russell and the players were treated abysmally. It was always going to need a miracle after that start.

I copied and pasted from soccerway and then just typed the goals conceded into an additional column in excel. I did it very quickly so it is quite possible I read those results backwards. That means that you kept one clean-sheet for an entire season. Derry should be ashamed.

Your points total was incredible, I've acknowledged that. It is indeed better than ours over the same period, though we had very little to play for as the season went on and you were scrapping for your lives. I was actually stunned by your performance at the Cross, you caught us napping and we couldn't keep up with your pace that day.

As for Wexford, I predicted that they would struggle this season and would probably finish bottom because I didn't think Furlong would score enough goals to keep them up. I was right on that, he has 3 goals, but the rest of the team stepped up, and Longford were much worse than anyone could have predicted. Still despite all their spiritied performances they are second bottom with just 12 points from 17 games (tied with Bray) and 8 points below Finn Harps.

Wexford also were not running away with the title in the fashion that Limerick have done. Your scorelines look like something out of a 5 a side league and are scarcely believable.

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It's worth bearing in mind aswell that our multi million pound squad has exactly one centre half who is near good enough and two broken goalkeepers, one physically and one mentally. Now of course you could argue that's Russell's fault he should have went out and signed a decent centre half to partner Williams. But he didnt. Because he'd rather use that money on Aaron Greene. Because that's the way he likes his team's to play.

We've average around 1200 in this most remedial of First Divisions. Would we be doing it grinding out the one nils under a Pat Scully? I honestly don't think so.

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This is perfectly fine, he can set his teams up anyway he likes. He will have won the division with an entire series to go, if not more and he will deserve credit for that. I'm sure its fun to watch, City were fun to watch under Stuart Ashton, we'd win 4-0 one week, lose 4-0 the next, then win 5-3. Highly entertaining, but I'm glad we went with a more pragmatic manager in John Caulfield.

My point is, as fun as it is now, there are some serious problems, and if I were a Limerick fan I would be concerned about his ability to keep you up in the Premier Division. Yes you had that run towards the end of last season but a large part of that was momentum. I don't think even the most optimistic of Limerick fans thinks if you had that side for the whole season you'd have kept up that run of form.

You mentioned Wexford and I think this is a good time to bring them up again. John O'Flynn has 11 goals in 11 games. I'm a huge Flynny fan. The last few seasons when he was with us was hard to watch. Many of my fellow supporters wanted him to be given more of a chance, they said he'd come good if he played more regularly, and maybe there is some truth in that, after all he is flying in the first division. I, and others like me, however think he was no longer the same player. Not just his record with us, but his performances, and his record in his last few seasons in England made that clear.

If he comes up and scores 15 goals next season I'll hold my hands up and say I was wrong, and I'd love to be proven wrong, as long as he doesn't score too many of those against us! I don't think I'll be wrong though, I'd be surprised if he managed more than 7 or 8 for a whole season, which would be decent, but that's me being optimistic. Like Furlong, I think he has found his level, which is a harsh thing to say, especially about the most deadly finisher I've ever seen in the LOI, but I think it's true.

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

Long post.

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I agree with some of what you say, but I think it's worth pointing out that as soon as we started scoring and winning, Russell was very hesitant to tinker with the team too much. He didn't want to change formations or even personnel if possible. It's not as if he wasn't concerned with the goals being conceded, but he felt he didn't want to risk our chances of survival by making changes that would make the team less attacking.

The number of points we won from that Sligo match on would suggest that was a good decision to me.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Russell had a team in great form going into the playoffs and lost it. Obviously if the budget had been more consistent you'd not have been near it, but I thought he didn't cover himself in glory during those games. For which I'll be eternally grateful.

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His decision to limit changes in personnel meant that a lot of our players were spent by that stage. We could see in the games against Derry and Rovers, we had very very little left. Lynch, Clarke, Faherty, Duggan, were all wrecked. More than anything else, the lack of a decent centre-half killed us.

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

My point is, as fun as it is now, there are some serious problems, and if I were a Limerick fan I would be concerned about his ability to keep you up in the Premier Division. Yes you had that run towards the end of last season but a large part of that was momentum. I don't think even the most optimistic of Limerick fans thinks if you had that side for the whole season you'd have kept up that run of form.

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As I've said in the Limerick forum, I'm not too concerned with the goals being conceded. In other circumstances I would be, but we're still going to run away with the division. I am sure our current squad will be slaughtered by at least half the teams in the premier if we don't bring in a number of quality players, especially defenders. We don't need to do that yet, as the squad we have now is enough to win the first division easily.

Whether Russell is of the same opinion, I don't know. What Russell does between the end of this season and the start of the next one to improve his squad will be the key. I don't really think he deserves criticism for not already building a squad that will keep Limerick in the premier next year when we are just over halfway through the current season in the first division.

Our squad wouldn't cut it in the Premier.

We'd stay up comfortably because at least four or five of the other teams are awful.

But it wouldn't be very pretty.

As it is we have:

Two broken goalkeepers.

A fairly decent pair of premier full backs.

One centre half.

One excellent premier midfielder, one good one and one fairly decent one.

A decent premier winger.

One striker who simply cant play every game.

Add to this two or three premier substitute standard players.

And eight or nine lads who would have no business in the premier.

It'll take serious investment to push on for the top four. Which is what I firmly believe we should be doing. The league can't stay this terrible forever like.

It's not up to me though. It's up to coco the chairman.

When a team like Limerick is decimating all in front of them why unnecessarily fork out wages now for additional defenders/players that are obviously not currently needed. We are just beyond half way of the 2016 season so there is plenty of time for Russell to address defensive frailties. He can bring Pat Fenlon in as his assistant or defensive coach to work on ruining Limericks attacking style as we know that attractive football is anathema to Nusty (can we continue slagging Pat off and analysing or speculating or being obsessed with Shamrock Rovers under Fenlon rather than sidelining the thread entirely with a fans Munster derby? Not that watching a Corks fan's obsession with Limerick and Limerick fans *****ley retort is not intriguing if for no other reason but WITH the parallels earlier in this and other threads involving Rover's fans and a pick of other club's fans).

Didnt realise p-r-i-c-k-l-e-y was a bad word!

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

City were fun to watch under Stuart Ashton, we'd win 4-0 one week, lose 4-0 the next, then win 5-3. Highly entertaining, but I'm glad we went with a more pragmatic manager in John Caulfield.

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Jeez, exaggerate much? You'd swear we were losing 4-0 every second week under Ashton. Our league record under him: P10 W7 D1 L2 F21 A15 Pts22.

Our 2 defeats were 2-1 away to shamrock and 4-0 away to Dundalk. Not the same as the picture you are trying to paint. Its just a pity he couldnt take the job instead of JC.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Didnt realise p-r-i-c-k-l-e-y was a bad word!

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It is if you spell it with an e.;)

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

Jeez, exaggerate much? You'd swear we were losing 4-0 every second week under Ashton. Our league record under him: P10 W7 D1 L2 F21 A15 Pts22.

Our 2 defeats were 2-1 away to shamrock and 4-0 away to Dundalk. Not the same as the picture you are trying to paint. Its just a pity he couldnt take the job instead of JC.

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I stand by my point. We were entertaining but I'd prefer JC long term. Besides he didn't want the job. He didn't even want to get the coaching badges.

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

I stand by my point. We were entertaining but I'd prefer JC long term.

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But why? More goals > less goals

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

It is if you spell it with an e.;)

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Tried it without the 'e' too! No matter.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

But why? More goals > less goals

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Winning games and competing for trophies > than being entertaining but losing

Bradley confirmed as Caretaker coach

Caulfield has done a great job building a solid foundation at cork but he's not the man to win them a league title.

Please, please let this happen, Jeffrey in running for Rovers job: http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepa...er-_-509521223

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Originally Posted by outspoken

Caulfield has done a great job building a solid foundation at cork but he's not the man to win them a league title.

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Not sure that's fair. Dundalk have been exceptional in recent years. Being best of the rest no small achievement in itself.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Please, please let this happen, Jeffrey in running for Rovers job: http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepa...er-_-509521223

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Hearing it's a done deal with Hooperman coming in as assistant.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Not sure that's fair. Dundalk have been exceptional in recent years. Being best of the rest no small achievement in itself.

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We had enough points in 2014 to win the league most years, and we're not far off that again this year. Last year we fell away when it became clear we couldn't catch them.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Please, please let this happen, Jeffrey in running for Rovers job: http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepa...er-_-509521223

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With Roddy as assistant manager. Comedy Gold!

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Please, please let this happen, Jeffrey in running for Rovers job: http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepa...er-_-509521223

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Always thought the Sun was similar to Waterford whispers, this proves it