Dangerous move. Could split the "Complete Fecking Moron" vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
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Dangerous move. Could split the "Complete Fecking Moron" vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
They have a terrible reputation on the manifesto front, vague promises and all that, but I haven't had the chance to read this year's first. I did hear a promise on the radio the other day that wasn't accompanied with any sort of strategy, and that infuriated me as ever. The manifesto will be getting a thorough read on the bog this weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
It could also be argued that: a) the country would have recovered faster had we burned the bondholders and FDR'd our way through it, and apparently this nearly always trumps austerity; b) the government delivered what they were told to deliver by the troika, and the highest reward we should give them for that is stars for their foreheads; and c) we're not actually back on our feet yet, and in fact many economists thinks that we're back in a bubble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
The outgoing government made plenty of decisions on the subject while in government, and they are masters of our domain.Quote:
For example the idea of burning the bondholders seems to have been a ship that had already sailed by the time they got in.
And this is different from every other election how? :) Oh to be back in the day when I had "principles", and, you know, no children or house. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by joey B
Are you seriously comparing our health service to the likes of Uganda or North Korea?Quote:
the biggest issue in this election for me should be our health service and who will have the best policies to fix what is essentially a 3rd world service
I've been to A&E 4 or 5 times in the past 2 years or so, with my kids and my mum on one occasion, and on all occasions we were dealt with in the order we should have been, by people who cared and were good at their jobs, came out healthy at the end of the process, and it only cost money on one occasion (because my mother didn't get a referral). I've also been to SouthDoc numerous times and the service there was generally very good, and our GP has charged us a fraction of what he could have over the years, with our terrifying group visits.
The wait times are appalling, and need to improve immediately, I'm not sure they've ever been at the ~2 hour level, which I would consider reasonable. The beds situation is an absolute disgrace, and again is something that's been static as long as I can remember. And the amount of middle managers in the health service is positively disgusting, But the quality of care in Ireland is generally very good, and a comparison to the 3rd world is frankly ridiculous.
I think I need to lie down, I gave dahamsta three thumbs up (spot on):p
Thinking of doing Labour with 9.5 seats or less, and Sf with 24.5+, just waiting for my good mate PP to get back to me with some tasty odds.....
Transfers! Transfers!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Looks increasingly like FG-FF is the only option:
https://irishpollingreport.wordpress.com/
I accept comparing it to a 3rd world country was harsh,but when you live in the North west and see old people being forced to travel for 4 hours on buses to get cancer treatment or the absolute shambles our health service makes of treating people with mental health issues it is easy to have a paticular view on our health service and treatment that many, NOT ALL recieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Fianna Fail actually need the approval of a special Ard Fheis to approve going into a coalition, and it's unlikely, to say the least, such an Ard Fheis would approve a junior role in coalition with Fine Gael. Plenty of TD's would go for it, but the local membership would need some serious convincing.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
I'm not sure there's any real benefit to FF of supporting a minority government either. Indeed, I don't think it's to anyone's electoral advantage to prop up Fine Gael/Labour in a likely hung Dail. It's easy to envision another election very quickly, but I'm not sure how it would turn out any different.
What is the process for a hung Dail anyway? Does Higgins just go to the party leaders one by one and ask them to try and form a government? I know that's how it's done in some European countries.
I'm not really convinced about the current polls to be honest. I've read that undecided's are up at 30%, although they polling companies/ those commissioning them don't seem that upfront about what the current level is. Just something doesn't seem right to me about them - the underlying important issues don't seem to tally with the party figures. Remains to be seen obviously, but just my anecdotal evidence is that a lot of people are undecided, or at least unwilling to say, which way they're going to vote. A lot aren't too exercised about the election yet anyway.
The way the commentary is, particularly some of the (frankly ridiculous) social media commentary, I wouldn't be surprised if we have our own version of shy Tories - people who won't publicly commit that they think the current Government are doing ok.
Social media definitely skews more left-wing than the country. Sinn Fein probably has the most active Twitter usage of any party for one thing.
It's not even the shinnerbots - there's a "like and share" cohort on facebook that are always outraged about something the Government is or isn't doing. You wouldn't blame the average voter keeping their head down with some of the stuff that's posted!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
As Macy says, it isn't even left-wing, it's just outrage. Plenty of folk clearly right wing sharing crap all over social mediaQuote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Everytime I think I can't dislike Meehole anymore he goes and makes it so.
What a petulant cnut.
If there's anything to be said for partition it's not having Joan Burton in my life. Who on earth thought that woman was cut out to lead a political party? She has one of those voices that would make you want to pour tar in your ears.
I didn't watch the debate, but it's actually more depressing that it's about the sound of her voice, or even about a couple of hours debating time, as to who the electorate will or won't vote for - it should be about policy and record FFS.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Watched the debate.
Thought Stephen Donnelly started well but tailed off a bit - I get the feeling unless you are talking about the economy he is not great - needs more experience I suppose.
Richard Boyd Barrett is a good speaker and has a clear message - he surprised me.
Lucinda Creighton - I'm still figuring her out - a decent speaker but I disagree with her message fundamentally.
Gerry Adams - disappointing - apart from the odd Punchline (no pun intended) I didn't feel he got his message across well. I'm not well up on Northern Ireland politics; but with them in power I don't get the impression that the place is falling apart like many would have you believe if they were part of the next government.
Michael Martin – Didn’t do as well as the TV3 one – but certainly the most accomplished speaker – I’m surprised the others didn’t round on him more often – I have to admire his neck on lecturing others on Health policy.
Joan Burton – not a great public speaker – but Labour are taking a disproportionate amount of the blame for the state this country is in I think – the whole situation is becoming frustrating for her and for them. They are fighting a losing battle now.
Enda Kenny – you would think that the country’s political leader would dominate these debates – in truth only a bit part player and trying to say as little as possible. I must say thoroughly unimpressive, but there is nothing we didn’t know already there.
An interesting debate ? or the worst game of the weakest link ever ? – I thought considering the potential for utter chaos with 7 speakers – Claire Byrne did a good job keeping order and I stayed watching even though I didn’t intend doing so.
It's about her ability to communicate. If Irish people can't bear to hear her speak what chance has she got in Europe, or the USA when she is supposed to be representing our interests? Some people are born with one of those voices you could listen to all day. Bill Clinton is a great example of that. Then you get people like Ed Milliband or Martin McGuinness who as professionals have to go to voice coaching etc to allow them to better communicate with the electorate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
She isn't really going to the US and her English is perfectly fine for Europe. That's a complete red herringQuote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Joan Burton has been in the US multiple times over the course of the last 5 years representing Irish interests, a few times around St. Patricks day for sure - I don't agree with BacktoWalsall regarding her voice but its not a complete Red Herring either. People have to be able to communicate effectively and clearly, but I wouldn't hold back a vote if someone was an effective politician just because he/she had a poor speaking voice. It's not a major issue, but you have to concede its not helping them now as this election will be a huge crisis for the party after the expected results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I think Labour are in a now in a situation anyway. She could be a perfect orator and people still wouldn't give her the time of day. Instead, they don't like her and pick on the voice to make fun of her
Lest you think i'm just another Nordie ShinnerBot Martina Anderson is another awful example of the nails on a blackboard voice.
Joan should have plenty of time to work on it from the start of next month though
For a start I'd ignore election promises because no party can keep them once they get in to power because the money isn't there to finance them.
The Health Service is a black hole. If you want to try and fix it, you'll have to pour billions at it and therefore no tax cuts. no extra money for pensioners and no money to spend and therefore no bump in the economy. Then the world recession comes round on the usual cycle and health spending (along with everything else) has to be cut. It's a vicious circle.
I'll vote for the party likely to do the least damage.
The notion that you have to spend billions fixing the health service does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny. Out health spend per capita is up there if not higher than most of our European counterparts - there is no reason why with a modest increase in spending it can't and shouldn't become world class. There should be no reason why anyone should be on a hospital trolley ever and there should be no reason why people living in Donegal or Kerry should have to travel all the way to Dublin for treatment for whatever reason.
Actually embarrassed for Labour with this advertisement.
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...46&oe=576AC413
Quite like that actually.
Exactly. People in Donegal should head to Derry and those in Kerry should go to Limerick and Cork.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
People aren't prepared to accept "best practice" in a lot of instances and trying to get the "one for everyone" in the audience attitude out of Irish politics is maddening.
I've had to be around the health service a lot since last summer due to a family illness, both out-patient and in-patient. I couldn't fault what I experienced. The pinch points seem to be in Emergency admissions. If Primary care centres or minor hospitals existed properly for minor injuries and for longer opening periods of time we would remove triage (and habitual Emergency users) from A&E's.
It depends on the condition for me. With modern medicine becoming more specialised certain rare conditions, particularly paediatric conditions, will be best treated in Dublin. But the people are reasonable. Where that is the case people will accept the logic of that
I can't claim to be an expert on the health service but if "a modest increase" would render it world class, then I am amazed that every Government hasn't been able to see this and you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
That's for sure anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I didn't say it would - i said it SHOULD.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
If you reconcile what other countries spend on health and compare it to what we spend on health and look at the comparative health services in those countries, then it paints a bleak picture of the HSE and successive governments. Too many vested interests, layers and layers of management, expensive medicine and an not enough emphasis on need rather ability to pay.
This is a HSE that can tell you rates of absenteeism in nurses by region - but ask them for Trolley numbers? - No they leave that to the INMO.
This is a HSE that can't find the money to fill all available doctor and consultant positions required but give them an election gimmick like free GP care for under 6 - no problem.
Ask yourself why we spend so much money training the best Doctor's and nurses in the world only to see them working everywhere but here.
There are literally thousands of unanswered questions and comments like that about our Health services - it would make you think we spend sweet FA on health.
You are amazed? I'm amazed the last two Ministers for health didn't need help tying their own shoelaces for fck sake.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Leo Varadkar I had some hope for but he just accepts things as they are. Maybe as a doctor himself he can get an improvement if FG return.
Plenty for the banks though:(Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
In theory you're right Bonnie but with that is the need for a lot of education of the public and a change of culture. Easier said than done. I work for a health region in SK and we opened 2 primary care clinics over the last 5 years. The impact on ER demand has been next to non-existent with CTAS 4s and 5s (lowest acuity ER presentations) staying level. Healthcare is a conundrum in a lot of countries. That said we have halved our ER wait times over the last 3-4 years just by attacking the processes around triage, diagnostics and admissions/discharges.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
I've been keeping my eye over on boards and they seem to think that the media is awash with FGers.
But from what I can make out after every poll is that FG's (and to a lesser extent SF) results are played down when up and crisis when down. Meanwhile FF's results are played up like crazy when up a point and almost disregarded when down or unchanged.
It's ridiculous. I can see the trend continuing til Thursday morning before the embargo where a whopper result for FF will send them into election day with the favourites tag.
Considering what happened to this country from 2008-2011 it's scary and baffling. Maybe not baffling cos Irish people are pillocks.
The media doesn't regard it's job as informing or reporting any more (if it ever did), it believes that it needs to make news exciting and gripping in order to justify itself and stop the drift towards social media reporting. That means bluster and guff, and in this case looking for an underdog to champion. FF is the only party available that can be classed (by an entirely stretched definition) as an underdog, that can actually achieve something and not make them look like complete langers afterwards. So they'll lightly play up FF, and be "hard" on FF/LAB.
I just don't really read the news any more. I check the local paper website a couple times a week, check RTE, the Guardian and the BBC maybe once a week, when I run out of Reddit. Everything else comes from Reddit or from a person's mouth. "News" just angers and bores me.
I thought it was just me with my long standing ABFF bias! Some of the commentary has been ridiculous, but most of it has come from the usual pro-FF sources (current and former INM hacks). I caught a bit of the mid week week in politics and Anne Harris was just ridiculously pro-FF. And another long standing issue is the number of (again particularly FF) former candidates/ spin doctors that are wheeled out and no mention of their history or potential bias.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
The number of undecideds is still not really being spoken about, or how hard the independent votes are. I guess the media can't loose - they'll talk up based on (mainly) margin of error poll changes, if it doesn't come off it'll be the polling companies fault not their fault.
"Should" or "would" I suspect you meant the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
As to how much we spend on health, a slightly out of date index here:
http://gamapserver.who.int/gho/inter...ing/atlas.html
Less that I thought but then this was at the height of the recession and certainly less than many of the EU countries. The USA a whopping 17.1 and when you add that to the amount they spend on the military, there must be shag all money left for anything else. Only Tuvalu spends more!!
When successive Governments don't get to grips with a problem, then there is obviously more to the problem that self-evident quick fixes. I have a friend who was casualty consultant in a hospital in Wales and the overcrowding there is almost as bad so the NHS is necessarily the ideal model.
What sort of clown is Enda ? He's now claiming that the whingers remark was directed at FFailers in Castlebar! When in a hole, stop digging.
The People's Debate makes me wish thee was an alternative to democracy.
FF are abhorrent.
One of the websites has the flier that it supposedly caused the comments. It is pretty whingy in fairness. For me, the apology/ backtracking is worse...Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
In other news, FG canvassers apparently take advantage of the Sinners inability/ laziness to actually use a letter box properly... Probably a joke about letter bombs in there somewhere! http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-34476773.html
Regarding health - the health funding figures. Is that based on HSE funding or actual Health spending? Despite the "get rid of the pen pushers" mantra a lot use, the HSE still does a lot of purely non health related administrative work.
I'd bet there are a large amount of people right on-board with the "whingers" comment.
Like with a lot of this election, it was mainly the media creating a story, and giving FF the opportunity to say "arrogance" about a million more times imo. I haven't heard it be the subject of any office/ water cooler/ kitchen talk in work anyway, although I believe Joe DuFFy got a whole show out of it!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Hard to see a game changer tonight either. Media again talking up the debate, and Kenny having to do something other than ok, but I'm not really convinced he has too. I still wouldn't be surprised by a big swing from "undecided" to "incumbents" on Friday.
So the latest polls show FG on 30. Again. And yet the headline was about FF's rise and teh consistency of that rise. You couldn't make it uyp.
EDIT: they changed the headline on RTÉ to: Fine Gael hold steady, Labour on wane
http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016...ion-redc-poll/
At this rate I would be very happy with some sort of FG/SF/LB/SD coalition as fantastical as that may sound.