Printable View
Yes, there have been worse examples and they should have been punished too. Certainly in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
Worcestershire was abused by the Saxons? Fascinating.Quote:
Whereas our country has been abused,a minimum of intermittently,by the self-same norman-saxon mutants for the last 900 years or so.....
This can be said about Ireland as a whole in the Celtic Tiger era. Plenty of people in NGOs saw the experience in other countries and decided to learn from their mistakes when racism inevitably raised its head. Also Irish people - from emigration or visiting emigrants - were no stranger to Black people. Its the government and its agencies that have disappointed - politicians, councillors, garda, etc. Anyone remember the petition that the white neighbours got up in 1998 over the constant harassment of a local Congolese family in Dublin by Garda? Could that have happened in a country where most people were seeing black people for the first time like Fifties Britain?Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
Good morning Duncan. Hope to see a take on this display from someone whose 'country' has had its own problems of prejudice even if this only manifests itself against Irish Catholics and not a country with a far higher RC population like Spain, when they and me last visited SGC Park. ;) See my old bum chum - and yours - Marcelus is doing his bit for community relations in the O6C on ourweeminds. Funny thing is that I tend to agree with his basic view on old Karoly although its typically blinkered bullsh*t from someone whose lips are glued to a picture of Dubya's ar*e that he thinks he's the most evilest religious quack in the world.
Agreed! Time to close down Windsor Park then for a game then. How's about backdating it to four. The vile anti-Catholic sh*te dished out in 1988 and 1994 when I was there, the game in 1993 that I personally missed and one for Neil Lennon's abuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
As for the Scum, what did they get for that show against Turkey. Not even the gate receipts, despite people running on the pitch and a Turkish player being assaulted. And what was that song they were singing about rather being a Paki than a Turk! Bit o' crack was it? Still that was a long time ago. Erm...not even two years!
Fnarr, Missus :)
I see I owe Marcellus (?) a reply on the Iraq thread, but need to go back to work. Perhaps you could knock out 250 words for me?
All punishments to be front-dated, of course...
There's the danger of being sanctimonious about the Spaniards (others have been far worse in the past), but today's Spanish media, unlike yesterday's, are reacting to the story. I think they recognise it as embarrassing at least.
Also Luis Aragones should apologise or be disciplined.
Recognise yer Worcester heritage, saucy bhoy ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
And me...and Sid Lowe....and most people I've spoken to about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_...354745,00.html
KOH
WHOA NELLY!! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
Rat's blood? Please tell me this is some urban myth. I had some 10 minutes ago. I know they put anchovies into it, is anchovy some kind of codeword for rat? Please explain yourself, Dav. I love Worcester sauce and hate rats :eek:
....and relax. ;)
Haven't changed my views from my previous posts but even for me this sanctimonious article brings the words pot, kettle, black and b*llox to mind. The words of a man who played for England during the "bad old days"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ls/4022869.stm
Don't know if anyone else noticed but England were brutal and were completly outplayed by the Spanish looney should of been sent off and suspended , Svens tactics were brutal and most of the players underperformed. Me thinks the racial thing is a smoke screen to cover up the obvious .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
I say more ! Simply because Roma had to play more home games behind closed doors for what to my mind was a less serious (but still ugly) incident. I think Wednesday was worse than one fan pelting a euro coin at a ref, so I think it should get a worse punishment... I'd say a 6 games behind closed doors or a 2 year ban on the Spanish National Team play in "Franco's Villa" (the Bernabeau, as its known to fans of other Spanish teams).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
That'll do for me, lads! I'll guess we'll pass why the need for the stupid comment about a mugging changing not your views on Irish people when we're talking about racial assaults, something now taken quite seriously here (both for white and people and non-whites). A politician defo in the making.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
Yeah and then we'll have Lansdowne Road shut down for six matches because of the 'racial' abuse of visiting Rangers players. :rolleyes: Cop yourself on and grow up, mate. FIFA should have done this to the Scum two years ago after the Turkey game. It's not that this was an isolated incident - which it most certainly is the case with Spain - their record spreads 25 years. Tell me how many match bans did they serve for smashing up Lansdowne Road. F*ck all! And they continued to host the following year's European Championships. B*llocks to you and to them! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Reading between the lines of The Scum's (the newspaper this time) call for a ten match ban - I take it you got your cue from this ar*e wipe's 'Irish' sister cfdh - this sounds like knocking out one of the opposition for potential World Cup glory :D :D (even if there's no chance of Spain making it the final, there's always a chance they'll f*ck up the tans process along the way). And of course one should never let the suffering of others stop you taking any opportunity you can. Calls for Madrid to waive its bid for the 2012 games are simply laughable. I was always supportive of an Olympic games coming so near to my home. Now, I hope it goes to Paris.
Want to get all bleary eyed about racism! Check out the case of Zahid Mubarak's murder in the care of Brenda's prison service.
Ok let's establish one thing.... racism perpetrated by any grouping on any other grouping is wrong and fundamentally evil.
Let us examine the major footballing powers that have this problem
1/ Spain.... a defunct empire which had a Fascist government for almost 40 years.
2/ Italy... another defunct empire
3/ Germany... a defunct empire
4/ England... a defunct empire
5/ Holland.... a defunct empire
6/ Belgium... a defunct empire with a quasi fascist party gaining votes in regional government
Conclusion... imperialism is inherently racist. If the powers that be in those countries were not racist they would not believe they had a divine right to walk on other people pillage their land of natural resources and or enslave their populations.
Now the next grouping of countries where racist abuse has been heaped on players are former colonised territories
1/Poland 2/ Slovakia, 3/ Croatia 4/ Serbia 5/ Romania 6/ Bulgaria
These were all dominated by either Germany, Russia,Turkey or Austria-Hungary during the past 3 centuries and have taken on the pollution of racism from their former imperial masters.
One of the most ridiculous aspects of this is the fact that Poland has an active neo-nazi movement... the sheer illogicallity of this beggars belief.
The Poles were next on the list of the Nazis to be removed in a final solution type scenario...so Polish neo-Nazis are kind of like the entire turkey population of County Monaghan covering themselves in tinsel and looking forward to December 25.
They are particularly nasty to the gypsies.
That is partly the prejudice of settled people to non-settled people, but mostly racism.
Ireland is racist because we are similar to the group of countries including Poland , i.e. being a former colonised territory. We also cross bred over time with Anglo Saxons and as we all know the WASP is the most racist of all ethnic groupings... as a cousin of mine once said to a BNP sympathiser in Cambridge.... " Britain would be a lovely place if the Saxons fecked off back to Germany where they came from !" :D
The so-called fans who make racist comments to our own players such as Clinton Morrison, do not frequent EL grounds very often and are therefore Premiership wanna be fans...a bit like the following anecdote.
In the early 1990's when Vinny Arkins played for Shelbourne , they wore an all-red strip in a friendly at Tolka Park against ManUre.. one of the ManUre fans a Dubliner called... Arkins... " A scouse ****".... Vinny comes from Donaghmede for God's sake... where did this plonker get that from?
He had overheard it on TV and was a Premiership wannabe. I think the racist comments from the Ole Ole fraternity who never come to el games are of that ilk. One final point
The worst example of racism I ever experienced first hand was from the Shed at Turner's Cross. When Jason Sherlock was playing for UCD. The abuse he received there was vitriolic in the extreme.
The local knuckle dragging branch of the KKK came out in force for that fixture!
Some points:-Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
This is getting into a separate argument but I am against the booing of Rangers players at LR. What have Shota Arvaladze, or a Danish man who looks like Peter Lovenkrands, for example, done to be singled out for booing ? Some of the people who go to Ibrox are particularly unpleasant, doing pretty vile acts regarding Neil Lennon etc but that doesn’t make it ok for us to stoop to even an iota of that level. We should rise above it and show that we have a better attitude. FIFA have given us a warning, and if it continues and we may well get a big fine or worse and there will go our image of being the best supporters in Europe.
I think the England should have got a travel ban or something equivalent after 1995. It was a disgrace, as were the incidents at Charleroi etc. Certainly if there is any trouble caused by English hooligans in Germany next year, I will fully support the idea of the team being kicked out.
I think the incidents on Wednesday were very bad. I have no doubts that Spain is a great place and the vast majority of Spanish people are very nice, and I'm sure its not a particularly racist country. However, even if the incidents of Wednesday are one off (which I accept they probably were), I think it will send out the wrong signals if FIFA/UEFA don’t act in some way. Turning a blind eye would make it seem acceptable. I have no doubts that there are major problems regarding racism in England, but I don’t see how that makes the treatment of Wright Phillips, Defoe etc any less appalling. I would have found such an incident just as bad had it been perpetrated on Carew of Norway, Miguel of Portugal, or Odisilable of Poland to give you three examples. It might well be hypocritical for the English FA to complain about failure to control fans, but that cant excuse what went on on Wednesday – it was plain wrong.
I do not read the Sun, and no longer live in Ireland so access to its Irish Sister is tragically fairly restricted for me. I have only ever regularly read a tabloid newspaper once, that was the German newspaper "Bild-Zeitung" (a cráp read btw) which I read as part of a coursework investigation for a month.
I took my cue (suggestion of 6 games behind closed doors) from the precedent set by UEFA for the Champions League game between Roma and Dynamo Kyiv. During the game a coin thrown from the Roma crowd struck Anders Frisk (the referee). As a result Roma had/have to play their subsequent 3 games in an empty stadium. My view was that the monkey sounds etc were more serious than the coin throwing (for a start they lasted longer and more people took part) and so the punishment should be greater than what Roma got, at least that’s what I think.
Your points about the booing of Rangers players here are well made. The perpetrators see it as scoring points probably against the neaderthal Orange knuckle draggers who sings songs about being buried deep in fenian blood.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
That is only sinking to the same level as the WASP neanderthals concerned.
The players concerned (i.e. Lovenkrands and Arvaladze)are not responsible for any of that do not even understand that aspect of the support. They are mercenary professional sports people looking for a few bob to feed their family and in some cases extended families back home. The captain of Rangers Stefan Klos used to play for the most RC Club outside Bavaria in Germany namely Borussia Dortmund. There are probably more non Catholics playing for Celtic these days than are playing for Rangers. The old sectarian lines on the pitch are blurred.. off the field and in the grounds among the spectators they unfortunately remain the same.
If anything Glasgow now appears more sectarian than some parts of Northern Ireland ( apart from Portadown :o ) .
Sectarianism is evil especially when it is institutionalized . Because that sort of thing leads eventually to the deaths of thousands :(
We should not allow people in LR to drag this country and the good name of our supporters down to the level of the monkey chanters of Sunderland or Madrid .
cfdh_edmundo: May I firstly apologise for saying b*llocks to you yesterday. I regretted it about ten minutes after I went out following the post. I was totally out of order for that.
However I disagree that a physical attack on a referee or player is worst than a verbal attack, although the law in Britain does now make any racist verbal assault far worse than one without it. My point, which College states in another sort of way, is that racism in another country gets blown out of all proportion when within Britain there are people who either can't walk down the street for fear of some form of assault or that their house being burnt down. Duncan forgets that NI has some of the worst racism in our two islands - far, far worse than what any black player suffered on the pitch on Wednesday.
Racism to me is not just verbal abuse at football games. It would be a far better world if this was the only place racism existed. Racism is where people are systematically attacked or discriminated in all walks of life just for their colour or ethnicity. Its the same with obese people or Homosexuals, but racism towards people of some African ancestry is by far the worst. 'Paki' is an awfull name but there is no connection with either the unlawful kidnappping, rape and mutulation associated with slavery nor Nineteenth century Social Darwinism.
In a football sense this is manifested not by opposing supporters but by the Black players' own fans. The Scum made this a particular art with John Barnes the most notable victim, not just in South America by Terry Last and co. but later at games where his colour was seen by many as the excuse for a poor performance. This practice was only stopped by draconian (the curtailment of freedom of speech) legislation in Britain pushed for by the CRE more than any campaign. The very CRE that is constantly sniped at by the British tabloids that went overboard in their protests about Spain. As for the game in Britain, Blacks are still underrepresented as football managers, coaches, in boardrooms (this is admittedly down to money) and the FA itself (unless you count women shared by Eriksson and Palos) despite the high number of retired Black players. More disturbing is the small number of non-Whites that go to games (the exceptions being a few clubs in Manchester, Birmingham and London). I watched Leicester against Atletico Madrid and didn't see one Asian at the game.
As I stated in my last post, a young Asian thief gets deliberately put inside a cell with a known violent racist by prison staff and ends up murdered. Unless the staff were mentally handicapped I can only think that the intention was for one of the two prisoners to kill the other. Surely that is more disgusting than someone getting paid £50K a week getting compared with apes while playing professional football. But then that doesn't sell newspapers.
Well done college and Lopez on two brilliant answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
in the broader picture (as in the problems of the world) what happened at the game was not a drop in the proverbial ocean.
but it does have to recognised for what it was (disgraceful conduct by the spanish crowd) at a sporting fixture, we are talking about the game we all love being reduced to levels we have 'nt seen in a long time.
folks,at some stage, us/we have got to shout STOP.........this is simply not acceptable behaviour. people telling off other people who say something racist in their proximity is probably being too ambitious for fear of a violent reaction.you could even start by simply not laughing along with or joining in with just to be cool when something starts beside us.
be honest with yourself,there is always the chance for us to blank these people when it starts,if enough people give them "dirty looks" etc it has a chance of dying away.
irrespective of history/traditions etc it must be eradicated from the game,its a cancer.
WE NEED A WATER SHED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the 12 th man
Well i think this crowd are just stirring it but see here
Is there any booing of other races at LOI matchs? Never heard any my self.
Not true- I am neither ignorant of nor trying to ignore racist abuse, in NI nor anywhere else. And irrelevant surely, because serious crime in one place doesn't mean you shouldn't address less serious in another. I'm suggesting that the Spanish FA receive an appropriate punishment, ie a game behind closed doors. That their media is now reacting to the incident- and that Blatter said on the BBC today that England would have been justified in walking off- suggests that they may well accept this.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
Since no-one's suggesting otherwise, what's your point? Other than routine Brit-bashing, obviously?Quote:
Surely that is more disgusting than someone getting paid £50K a week getting compared with apes while playing professional football. But then that doesn't sell newspapers
Aye, right. What a numbskull.Quote:
Ireland is racist because we are similar to the group of countries including Poland , i.e. being a former colonised territory. We also cross bred over time with Anglo Saxons and as we all know the WASP is the most racist of all ethnic groupings
the muppets that boo rangers players are a bunch of barstool celtic "fans",who spend more time and money "supporting" scottish football,and probably never been to an EL ground,thats the only reason i dont support the booing of rangers players when theyr playing for their country.i dont follow the national team anyway but wanted to make that point..if anything ALL opposition players should be booed regardless of their club.
at the end of the day the fai shouldnt be discouraging fans from abusing any opposition players.
Just what supporting your team is all about! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by anto eile
So you agree that NI deserves at least a one match ban for booing Neil Lennon then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
Oh dear! Boo, hoo, f*cking hoo: Can't say anything about the Scum, the FA, the sh*te rag nwespapers with their sanctimonious fake liberalism on one page with xenophobia on the next, without of course it being 'Brit-bashing'. Classic example on Friday re Richard Littlesh*t. Waffle, waffle, Europe's full of people voting for racist parties: Britain (meaning England) isn't. What a wonderful country. Then the next line. Blah, blah, blah. This utopia is being ruined by the guardianistas and the CRE. It was people like the CRE that forced in the Race Relations Act, not tw*ts like the Scum. BTW, what is this Neo-nazi party that made great strides in this year's Spanish elections?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
Then we have Michael Boyd of the IFA pronouncing before any investigation takes place, that Spain should play a game behind closed doors. LOL! As Littlesh*t would say, you couldn't make it up.
You want Brit-bashing? Here's some for you. As I said before I don't need lectures from anyone about racism. I stood up alone amongst white kids against racism towards Asians in my school and as such I have had absolutely no contact with my former school 'friends' since I left school despite still living in the same town. I'm not talking monkey chants or the usual 'thick Mick' insults that I endured. I'm talking vicious assaults involving, as the worst I remember, broken teeth followed by threats no to say anything. That was the wonderful 'British' working class that I grew up with.
As for who's suggesting that the monkey noises are worse than racial violence, you want me to answer that? Every British newspaper I've seen today has had reams of comment on Madrid and none on the Prison Service putting Zahid Mubarek with Robert Stewart to be killed. From the editorial to the 'why oh why oh why' pomposity of columnists his name gets not a single mention but Spain is now up there with Mississippi as a racist heaven. The Sunday Mirror mentions the Antonio Salas book - with the photos of Raul and Figo - as if it's their own investigation. The Ultras Sur have fascist and racist tendencies. :eek: My God! You don't say! The book's been around for two years. It's a bestseller and it gets mentioned now!
It's all because this happened to a bunch of highly paid British athletes cum personalities that this is getting mentioned here or in the papers and a convenient excuse to cover up the Scum's performance - 'the monkey noises affected the team (copyright countless sanctimonious reporters)' - and a sneaky way of increasing London's Olympic bid. Meanwhile, racial violence in Belfast gets half a page in the 'bleeding heart liberal' Guardian a few weeks back and that's, er, it!
Ya leave a thread for 3 days..................and there's 5 pages of full on political banter to read through..............God love foot.ie ! :D :D
Looking foward to the 16th even more now!
Let's kick racism out of football lads!
Neil who? Let's move forward. If there's crude racism or sectarianism in the future as in the past, or as in Madrid, then yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
It's largely irrelevant (the hypocrisy of the Brit media is a separate issue to the crude racism of many Spanish fans), exaggerated (no-one is suggesting the English are fearful or hating of Spaniards) and repetitive (see threads passim). So yes, routine Brit-bashing. For all that I agree with much of what you say about institutionalised racism and the rest.Quote:
Oh dear! Boo, hoo, f*cking hoo: Can't say anything about the Scum, the FA, the sh*te rag nwespapers with their sanctimonious fake liberalism on one page with xenophobia on the next, without of course it being 'Brit-bashing'
I'm sure Boyd would want there to be an investigation. If so I agree with him. But there's a pretty obvious prima facie case to answer, eh? Do you think his job at the IFA disqualifies comment- why?Quote:
Then we have Michael Boyd of the IFA pronouncing before any investigation takes place, that Spain should play a game behind closed doors. LOL! As Littlesh*t would say, you couldn't make it up
No-one is lecturing you?Quote:
As I said before I don't need lectures from anyone about racism
The context made clear I was talking about foot.ie readers. But in any case none of the British papers are suggesting that- exaggeration again. I'd think about withdrawing that libellous accusation about the prison service btw...Quote:
As for who's suggesting that the monkey noises are worse than racial violence, you want me to answer that? Every British newspaper I've seen today has had reams of comment on Madrid and none on the Prison Service putting Zahid Mubarek with Robert Stewart to be killed
No, it's because Irish football fans saw it on TV and felt moved to comment! Barely any of them, and certainly not me, have any vested interest in defending the England team (not that any of their own mainstream media did, of course). Same goes for their Olympic bid. I'm agin it by the way, sports money should go on public pitches in the Highlands, as the Bleeding Heart's letters page said on Saturday.Quote:
It's all because this happened to a bunch of highly paid British athletes cum personalities that this is getting mentioned here or in the papers and a convenient excuse to cover up the Scum's performance
Wise up. This has had widespread coverage in the Belfast, London and Dublin media.Quote:
Meanwhile, racial violence in Belfast gets half a page in the 'bleeding heart liberal' Guardian a few weeks back and that's, er, it!
Any chance of concentrating on the present rather than living in and dregding up the past? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
I'm sure you would like to move on. Well I'm not too keen on giving you the clean slate and not Spain, especially as 'racism' for want of another word has been part and parcel of international matches for decades in Belfast while this is the first time that it has happened at a Spain game. How much did the IFA get fined over Lennon? And of course if this happened to England - as both Littlesh*t and Phil Neville moaned about - they'd have to play a game behind closed doors. But it did at the Turkey game. And all they got was a fine. Anyway, this might all blow up in the faces of the Tan media and the EFA, with the events at Blackburn, when the chickens come home to roost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
No it's neither of the three (perhaps the third then). You accused me of Brit-bashing, a general all-encompassing accusation that I was slagging off the whole British population when talking about a small part of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
Boyd has already made up his own mind and this is clearly down to his solidarity with a fellow 'British' association.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
Perhaps that's not the intention but with the fear of repeating myself again, name calling in the tribailistic setting of football is the least of its problems. No one is suggesting that noone should call you, me or Davros fat, or people like Richard Dunne. But what about the, admitedly small, number of kids that commit suicide over this through school bullying becuase of their obesity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
Foot.ie readers - and I salute this - are far more proactive on issues of race and sectarianism that you find in Irish society in general. But I can't help suspecting that with British papers relegate racism to non-celebrities to the back columns not front and back pages and half a dozen in between, that this has not influenced people's disgust when there are clearly other racial problems in Britain, Ireland and Europe. As for libelling the Prison service, don't make me laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
Irish fans might not have any vested interest in the Scum but again, the side gets a hell of a lot of coverage in Irish papers for what is a foreign team. Therefore more 'why oh why oh why' commentary than on, for example, black players in Poland being asked, when injured, by medical staff if they want a stretcher or a banana. As for Olympics, the tabloid media has wasted no time in trying to get the Madrid bid - which I was told by my son was ahead of London - flung out. No doubt if Al Qaeda timed a bombing campaign in London just before the winner's announcement that the same media would be saying that this should have no bearing on the final decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
Belfast, Dublin. yes. Decent British newspapers like the Guardian and the Independent who take a consistent line on racism - and therefore I am not criticising - of all forms every day of the week. Yes. As for the papers who have been the most sanctimonious over Wednesday? The Daily Mail? I doubt it. The Mirror, the paper whose own xenophobia towards Spain (and Germany) during Euro 96 disbars it from any credible condemnation on the racism in Spain? I doubt it. The Scum? Ooh nurse, my sides!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
Two years ago isn't ancient history even if you wish it was. For what it's worth, I didn't nor don't want to see WP shut for what happened to Lennon, merely if Spain are to be sanctioned, in the interests of fairness, so should these teams and that Boyd should be a bit more understanding and less sanctimonious. After all, there were adverts and announcements against racism before kick-off.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNI
It's clear that at WP - as in Spain - this was a minority. Also society's problems can't be excluded from football and that in their defence, historically the IFA (in the fifties) ignored the advice of the Stormont government to 'employ' only Protestants. Far worse to me was the refusal of Linfield to employ RCs but in footballing terms, one club's discrimination is another's opportunity (eg: Jock Stein on signing the Protestant for Celtic in the sixties knowing Rangers wouldn't sign the RC).
However sectarian abuse continued for years - not one game - at WP without sanction and the Football For All initiative came not from abuse of players of opposing sides but of one of its own, a move the IFA had no choice in enacting otherwise it faced RC players seeking either to play for the Republic or not at all.
It was more than 2 years ago. And it was in many ways one of the last manifestations of a dying era.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
There you go again, confusing the past and the present again.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
Yes, the IFA were crap and inert until Michael Boyd and his team came along. Thankfully in the past few years TIMES HAVE CHANGED.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
That is complete and utter garbage. Football for All started at least a couple of years before Lennon signed for Celtic. And it was a result of massive pressure from NI supporters groups on the IFA to help them out in their (now successul) efforts to end sectarian singing.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
Nothing like twisting events to suit what you'd like to believe, is there... :rolleyes:
Absolutely brilliant. You try to talk about the issues confronting football in NI and further afield, and instead people decide to bring up King Billy, the Battle of the Boyne and the Orange Order :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
so, as you can see, its pretty much pointless trying to argue with people who kep changing the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNI
For the love of God - I mentioned that events took place at a football ground in the past. I didn't realise this made it open season for a rant about 'trimphalism', 'cultural traditions', King Billy or the Orange Order...Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
I/we (NI fans) have moved on. We don't ask for past abuses to be ignored- and I've said above I expect them to recur, sadly. If you genuinely want punishments to be applied retrospectively, this just sounds embittered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopez
I think the English* media are aware of been judged by the standards they set the Spanish.Quote:
No it's neither of the three (perhaps the third then). You accused me of Brit-bashing, a general all-encompassing accusation that I was slagging off the whole British population when talking about a small part of it...anyway, this might all blow up in the faces of the Tan media and the EFA, with the events at Blackburn, when the chickens come home to roost
* if you don't want the accusation of 'Brit-bashing', drop the constant references to 'Tans' and 'Scum'. Deal?
It's not clear at all. Are you saying that because I'm agreeing with him, I'm solid with the Brits? Or that anyone who disagrees with you is?Quote:
Boyd has already made up his own mind and this is clearly down to his solidarity with a fellow 'British' association
Neither intention nor effect. No-one accused you, so why not drop it?Quote:
Perhaps that's not the intention
You're easily amused. You implied that the prison service deliberately treated Mubarek in a way that exposed him to violent assault. That's libellous.Quote:
As for libelling the Prison service, don't make me laugh
Hmm. On the one hand you're crediting foot.ie readers for their sensitivity to racism, then suggesting that they're unduly influenced by coverage of English football in the Irish media. Why can't you just accept that Irish fans are angry with explicit racism and want to criticise it? No hidden agenda applies.Quote:
Irish fans might not have any vested interest in the Scum but again, the side gets a hell of a lot of coverage in Irish papers for what is a foreign team
Tabloid media deal in instant vox-pop type opinion. But then I'm not defending the Sun or Mirror. Why does Juanito think the Spanish are ahead of London, by the way? This isn't a dig, but he is only 11. I agree with him anyway. Madrid's transport is better, the Latino block vote will kick in, and if it's in high summer plucky Paula will retire and we won't have to listen to the tabs bleating about her latest failure.Quote:
As for Olympics, the tabloid media has wasted no time in trying to get the Madrid bid - which I was told by my son was ahead of London - flung out. No doubt if Al Qaeda timed a bombing campaign in London just before the winner's announcement that the same media would be saying that this should have no bearing on the final decision
Ah, right. So you accept that the Brit media did cover the story. The London tabs have given plenty of coverage to racism-related violence in northern English towns in the last couple of years. They're ****, yes, but that doesn't mean they always hide from the story.Quote:
Belfast, Dublin. yes. Decent British newspapers like the Guardian and the Independent who take a consistent line on racism - and therefore I am not criticising - of all forms every day of the week
To Davros: Lopez's constant references I've explained above. Yours to the "planters" needing to "feck off or intergrate" [sic], are just incoherent :)
If you want to lauch into a rant about your perception of the NI Unionist community rather than discuss the issues I was discussing, I just give up...Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
It's not too long ago that Paul McGrath underwent the same type of racist abuse in Belfast during that rotten qualifier in 93. nothing happened or was said about it then.
what happened in spain was wrong but listening to england fans on tv saying it is the worst thing they have seen in years made me sick. what qualifies as being racist, does singing about 'paddy b@@tards in 95' not come under the same category.
You like to bring up your little celtic racist story on a fairly frequents basis connor. Its as if you are trying to score points over the celtic fans by using the walters story. This is very sad and shows little empathy towards walters and the racism he indured during this event, but rather shows your desire to portray celtic fans in a certain light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
BOTH incidents are/were appalling and should NEVER be tolerated in our society.
Yours,
Junior 'Celtic fan'.
What do the Ku Klux Klan , Combat 18, the people who victimised Lopez and the Loyalists terrorising Asian immigrants in Belfast have in common? They are WASPS. Hence my assertion !Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan Gardner
You clearly took the traditional route to reach the above conclusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
I was wondering when you'd go off on that subject again, a bit like when a song on a CD player get's put on repeat and just goes on and on and on. :rolleyes:
No- I called you a numbskull not because you're stupid- that's forgivable- but because you're a bigot. Next.Quote:
Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Ahhh Now Conor, this is a subject about the Spain v Tans ;) match last week and all of a sudden you go bringing up an incident that happened in 86 which I thought we had all done to death, cue reaction.
MMM as for interest in yer post's there was over six pages about this subject yet yer good self was the first to try and point out that a certain team who's name always brings out an argument on these boards is more are less involved in the same abuse that was dished out to the black players last week.
I will go through it again for you, the positive thing that came out of that sad incident was the complete outcry from the overwhelming majority of fans and the sudden put down to the sad action's of a few. I have no problems with the British press standing up to racism, in fact I fully encourge it. But if they are to do it then do a total cover of it , rather of when it suit's them.
One paper that has been brought up on this thread with it's outcry to the abuse was the sun, a same paper that waged a campaign against any kind of funding or represantation toward's the Black community in the years after the Tottenham riot's and waged a slander campaign against many black people in local goverment here in North London, all of a sudden they are on a campaign which will soon be forgot when they go back to their normal story's of Eastern europians and muslim's.
Anyway off now to trawl through yer three and a half thousand posts and see what else i can soooooo find.