Bring back Winter Football

We changed to summer football for a variety for a variety of reasons that basically failed to materialise. Crowds didn't really improve, the standard of football didn't really improve, and it's very difficult to say that European performances have benefited. I've always thought that was more to do with budgets than anything else.

If we changed back again, I'd expect none of those things to change either. The issue of crowds, standard of football and European performances aren't going to be linked significantly to either summer or winter football.

We just need more money.

Definitely haven't had milder winters. The last two seasons playing junior soccer have been a write off from mid November till mid February. Most teams actually went longer during those months without a game than the actual off season.

Shorter LOL off season needs to come in though. In junior the season ends in may or sometimes even the start of June and is back in August. 4 months in the league of Ireland is too long and I don't think it's done anywhere else.

Looking at it another way, wouldn't it be nicer to end the season coming into the summer?

Pitches rest for the summer. Greater growth for the winter leading to them being better prepared for winter football.

Coming into winter isn't an ideal way to end the season, cup final, climax to season, all played on cold, damp wet days.

Cup final in May, league climax in May, play-offs in May.

I miss winter football. It was more fun then. Something about the feeling of coming away from a match trying to thaw out your toes from the frosty weather just stuck with me since childhood. Great memories.

I am of the opinion that summer soccer has benefits which winter soccer don't bring.I have already stated those earlier.
BUT Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall, it won't matter when the game is played unless we tackle the fundamental problems of the game.
We need an integrated pyramid system in this country.
Otherwise the various leagues will remain separate with no cooperation or connection between them other than the blazers at the FAI agm.
If those in charge of our game don't grasp this fact those of us still around in twenty years will still be discussing this all over again.

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Originally Posted by disgruntled

I am of the opinion that summer soccer has benefits which winter soccer don't bring.I have already stated those earlier.
BUT Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall, it won't matter when the game is played unless we tackle the fundamental problems of the game.
We need an integrated pyramid system in this country.
Otherwise the various leagues will remain separate with no cooperation or connection between them other than the blazers at the FAI agm.
If those in charge of our game don't grasp this fact those of us still around in twenty years will still be discussing this all over again.

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There's as much hope of us playing on the moon to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Jofspring

Definitely haven't had milder winters. The last two seasons playing junior soccer have been a write off from mid November till mid February. Most teams actually went longer during those months without a game than the actual off season.

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I live up the mountains - we barely had frost last winter!

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Originally Posted by disgruntled

I am of the opinion that summer soccer has benefits which winter soccer don't bring.I have already stated those earlier.
BUT Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall, it won't matter when the game is played unless we tackle the fundamental problems of the game.
We need an integrated pyramid system in this country.
Otherwise the various leagues will remain separate with no cooperation or connection between them other than the blazers at the FAI agm.
If those in charge of our game don't grasp this fact those of us still around in twenty years will still be discussing this all over again.

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You keep saying this, so I'll keep pointing out, that senior football playing to a different calendar, doesn't exactly help! How would a pyramid work? Top Intermediate Team gains promotion to Senior football in May. They then can't play football again until the following March! Even if an ambitious team enters a team in the leagues own U19 league, and decides to apply to join the first - they'll either have to leave the U19 league midseason, or have a significant period without football.

It's not the primary issue for a lack of integration, but do we only want integration on our terms? It really puts a practical roadblock in the way that everyone can hide behind, if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by disgruntled

We need an integrated pyramid system in this country.

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Agreed, but we'll never but the SFAI and the other bodies under the FAI banner have no interest in that. I don't know you would ever force them into doing anything.

It wasn't because of frost games kept getting called off because last year wasn't that cold. It was the torrential rain that kept falling flooding pitches. If a game managed to get played one week it was most definitely called off the following week. We have a very good pitch also.

I wouldnt be in favour of switching back. People would still find excuses not to go, too cold, xmas holidays, then we'd have the cancellation threat of games with possible frozen and waterlogged pitches. Also someone above mentioned the mild winters we had, that wont last forever.

It is nice watching matches under lights when its dark, but I also like leaving a match in April - Aug when its bright.

Would much prefer a set up change to the league than season, and go with one single division, 16 teams maybe, home and away twice, 30 games, keep it simple and open up senior football to more parts of the country. We could still have a relegation system in place to non leagues.

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Originally Posted by oriel

We could still have a relegation system in place to non leagues.

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How would it work, without League of Ireland switching back to a winter season, or forcing everyone else to move to a summer season? A club would be relegated from the league in October, and wouldn't be able to play again until August/ September the following year. The promoted team would be promoted in May, and wouldn't be able to play again until the following March or April.

That's a fair point, never thought of that. That would rule out a single senior division for the present time, as I think it's a UEFA requirement now to have promotion/relegation.

Still wouldn't like a return to winter football though.

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Originally Posted by oriel

Would much prefer a set up change to the league than season, and go with one single division, 16 teams maybe, home and away twice, 30 games, keep it simple and open up senior football to more parts of the country. We could still have a relegation system in place to non leagues.

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I agree with that. 16 team Premier Division. Have B teams and all other interested parties in a regionalised north and south second tier. Promote the winner of a north-south play-off with the runners-up taking on the 15th placed Premier team in a play-off. While not everyone agrees with it, in a 16 team division I'd be in favour of an end of season play-off for the final Europa League spot. I'm all for league placing but if there's an agreed end of season competition where certain league places are the qualification criteria, it can be a good test for those with European aspirations. You'll be looking at the league winner, league runner-up, cup winner and play-off winner representing the league in Europe. Anyway all part of a healthy debate whether in agreement or not.

I preferred winter football, there's just something about the freezing nights under the floodlights with the cup of soup.

The general consensus seems to be that people on here are happy to maintain the status quo. Personally i think football is a winter sport full stop. There are alot more distractions on a summers Friday night in June than there is on a Friday night in December for sporting people. GAA dominates the sporting conscience in this country throughout the Summer months. As already alluded to by a Dundalk fan any lads training and playing with GAA teams have very few free nights in the week to attend LOI games. Whereas these same lads are only tied up on a Sunday morning playingwise during the Winter. Is there a facility on this forum to put up a poll to see what the actual percentages for and against are??

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Originally Posted by LFC Blue

Personally i think football is a winter sport full stop.

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That must be why they play it on the beaches of Brazil... :rolleyes:

I love summer football - I wouldn't switch back for anything. The stuff about crowds is a red herring - obviously winter/summer football benefits some clubs' attendances and harms others', i.e. Harps, although this is largely due to the Donegal GAA boom which will cease to be an issue when they return to their natural position. The main and overarching benefit of summer football is the fact it takes place during the summer. It makes for a much better experience for fans, apart from the odd pervert who gets turned on by standing in freezing rain (you know who you are).

We need more games played in inclement weather like this.

I see Pat Dolan is in favour of returning to winter football according to his column in The Star. I'd like to officially withdraw any support I may have expressed for winter football now.

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Originally Posted by gufcfan

We need more games played in inclement weather like this.

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Well its definitely to the leagues advantage that we have it for the climax of the season and the cup final, rather than relatively less important mid season games.

For those looking for a return to Winter soccer - enjoy tonight's games, weather is dire here in Galway right now

Winter Football!? It's that and more out in Bray tonight.

It has been slashing it down in Derry since half 5. Walking around since 1 and I've changed my socks and shoes twice today already.
Winter football, really?

There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes.

Macy has it in a nutshell. 6,200 in Cork tonight, could there have been an extra 1,000 on top of that at the end of May?

Would there have been an extra 1,000 in Bray tonight in May?

Wouldn't a cup final be a much more attractive family day out in the summer?

No, we prefer to end the season in the muck.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Macy has it in a nutshell. 6,200 in Cork tonight, could there have been an extra 1,000 on top of that at the end of May?

Would there have been an extra 1,000 in Bray tonight in May?

Wouldn't a cup final be a much more attractive family day out in the summer?

No, we prefer to end the season in the muck.

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So you're using the possible fact people may have stayed away from a winter football match as an argument in favour of winter football increasing attendances?

Ye LoI family folk will have to excuse my GAA references but to be expected so cool beans. The GAA are planning to have the All-Ireland club championships end at the beginning of December so that they are concluded within the calendar year.

I suppose not really my place to comment on LoI affairs when Kerry is outside of the LoI footballing community. I enjoyed the game in Thomond Park tonight. It's a pity there's not another few weeks of action before December. Hard to know what the solution is. The Europa League Qualifiers tend to be the beginning of July. I think that would be the appropriate time to start the season. Play up until the first or second week of December as the UEFA competitions do. Have a two month break and start up then around the middle of February. End the season then at the end of April - early May time.

Comparison of now and suggested:
# Now ...... Suggested
1. March .... July
2. April ..... August
3. May ..... September
4. June .... October
5. July ..... November
6. August .... December/February
7. September .... March
8. October .... April

Having two month breaks at different times probably isn't great though. Hard to know what the solution is. Should the league finish later than now?

After last night in Bray, no thanks.

It was superb entertainment on TV anyway.

Clubs strugle to get fans to go to games on a bright sunny night so how the hell are they going to attract crowds on a cold, dark & wet night.

Also if they are going to midweek games they will clash with premier league, champions league etc but at least with summer soccer FAI can fix midweeks games durning summer months so they wont clash with games on TV.

Summer soccer is not the problem, Some clubs are using this an excuse for have a poor Marketing plan to promoting their games.

How many clubs attendances have droped due to summer soccer?

I wouldn't say summer soccer is a problem but is there a need for it? If people want to go to games they'll go. GAA junior and intermediate club championships at provincial and all-Ireland level are getting crowds in December, January and February. I've been to Thomond Park for a number of games on St. Stephen's Day.

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Originally Posted by Macy

I live up the mountains - we barely had frost last winter!


You keep saying this, so I'll keep pointing out, that senior football playing to a different calendar, doesn't exactly help! How would a pyramid work? Top Intermediate Team gains promotion to Senior football in May. They then can't play football again until the following March! Even if an ambitious team enters a team in the leagues own U19 league, and decides to apply to join the first - they'll either have to leave the U19 league midseason, or have a significant period without football.

It's not the primary issue for a lack of integration, but do we only want integration on our terms? It really puts a practical roadblock in the way that everyone can hide behind, if nothing else.

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When the League of Ireland season was a winter one we had no integration / cooperation so what's changed to make it any different now ?
And whats this about integration on our terms ?
Where there's a will there's a way but the problem is there is no will with those who control the FAI to do anything.

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Originally Posted by gufcfan

Agreed, but we'll never but the SFAI and the other bodies under the FAI banner have no interest in that. I don't know you would ever force them into doing anything.

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This is it in a nutshell.
Those in control have no interest in changing anything.
There's no way to force anyone to do anything they don't want but they won't even sit down & talk about it.

I find it amusing that most of those who want winter Soccer support clubs who couldn't rent a crowd or from those who don't go to the games anyway.
On poster has asked "How can we have integration when the League of Ireland plays in the Summer & everyone else plays in the Winter ?
When everyone played in the Winter we didn't have any form of integration then so what would have changed if the League of Ireland went back to a Winter season now?
Nothing.
Its just another excuse not to grasp the nettle & deal with the problems.

Another poster has hit the nail on the head when he says that the SFAI aren't interested in any form of integration.

The question still remains.
What advantages would there be if the League of Ireland went back to a Winter season ?

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Originally Posted by disgruntled

I find it amusing that most of those who want winter Soccer support clubs who couldn't rent a crowd or from those who don't go to the games anyway.
On poster has asked "How can we have integration when the League of Ireland plays in the Summer & everyone else plays in the Winter ?
When everyone played in the Winter we didn't have any form of integration then so what would have changed if the League of Ireland went back to a Winter season now?
Nothing.
Its just another excuse not to grasp the nettle & deal with the problems.

Another poster has hit the nail on the head when he says that the SFAI aren't interested in any form of integration.

The question still remains.
What advantages would there be if the League of Ireland went back to a Winter season ?

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There aren't any obvious ones that I can see. Disadvantages, yes. The way the weather has gone in recent years would play havoc with the league and inevitably with finances. I'd also expect European results to disimprove.

LoI clubs are comfortable enough getting through Europa League Q1. The weekend before Q2 in July would be time enough to start the league.

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Originally Posted by legendz

LoI clubs are comfortable enough getting through Europa League Q1. The weekend before Q2 in July would be time enough to start the league.

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We could start the league whenever we want. We could start it in June or in May and still have winter football. The question is why is it a good idea?

The football season was originally devised it was a sport that could be played outside of the cricket season, which had to be during the summer months. If we were a serious cricket-playing nation, I could maybe see the argument for winter football, but we're not and apart from Peader I doubt there'll be many of us kitting out for our local cricket teams on the off-season if we switch back.

I have respect for the league that they gave summer soccer a go. There's only 4 clubs any season in Europe. I don't think crowds are different one way or the other. If grounds only have a game every two weeks, the pitches should be alright during the winter. There could be a return of the high attendances for St. Stephen's Day and New Year's Day matches, and then a mini winter break. Is there any discussions within the league about this or are the majority happy enough with the status quo?

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Originally Posted by legendz

I have respect for the league that they gave summer soccer a go. There's only 4 clubs any season in Europe. I don't think crowds are different one way or the other. If grounds only have a game every two weeks, the pitches should be alright during the winter. There could be a return of the high attendances for St. Stephen's Day and New Year's Day matches, and then a mini winter break. Is there any discussions within the league about this or are the majority happy enough with the status quo?

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I don't think there's any great hunger among the League clubs to go back to Winter football simply because they can't see any good reason to do so.

Whatever about anything else the half winter season with a two month break (!!) suggested above is untenable. It'd be impossible for clubs and players to manage financially through the break. And starting the season in early July to be up and running for Europe doesn't make sense either, the Euro benefit of summer football is that your squad is bedded in and playing together for 10, 15, 20 games, not 1 or 2.

People are saying we need to change to winter football to avoid Gaa but their are no GAA games on friday night & their are nt too many clashes with GAA on saturday nights eg, how many games had Sligo, Longford etc had clash with GAA games.

If we go back to winter we will have clashes with Rubgy games so Galway, Limerick, cork for odd game that is played in cork & some of dublin clubs will have clashes with PRO 12 games.

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Originally Posted by Trainee

People are saying we need to change to winter football to avoid Gaa but their are no GAA games on friday night & their are nt too many clashes with GAA on saturday nights eg, how many games had Sligo, Longford etc had clash with GAA games.


If we go back to winter we will have clashes with Rubgy games so Galway, Limerick, cork for odd game that is played in cork & some of dublin clubs will have clashes with PRO 12 games.

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Fair point, we've only had to move 1 game in the last few years due to county GAA but it's actually the local club championship and underage GAH matches that effect our attendances more than anything else. During the winter youl have to compete with the premiership in England but if played on a Friday night that would rule that out so Id prefer a return to winter football but only if clubs could guarantee pitch quality and that's never going to happen unfortunately