Explosive comments from Stephen Kelly

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Originally Posted by Bungle

Come on mate. Like I've said on other posts, Trap has done some very good things for the team, most of them within the first two/three years of his reign, when he turned a joke of a team into a team that deserved to qualify for the World Cup and then did qualify for the Euros.

However, even his most ardent supporters must accept that his communication skills are a joke and he has alienated some very good decent guys like Kelly. Guys like Gibson and Ireland are one thing but a quiet good pro like Kelly is quite another. His management of Wilson and McCarthy could have lost them to the North or to Scotland, were they not totally committed to playing for us. He makes Don Givens seem like a world class diplomat does our Trap.

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Gibson took a petulant huff because Trap gave Green a run ahead of him at the Euros; that's Trap's decision to make, whether we or the players disagree with that or not. He's the manager. Gibson's reaction was immature in the extreme and he's lucky Trap still has time for him, as indicated by Trap's continued communication with Gibson.

Trap didn't alienate Ireland. Ireland retired from international football during Staunton's reign. Trap and Brady actually attempted to convince him to make himself available again.

The Wilson thing seemed to be a case of mistaken identity, which is shoddy and careless, granted, but things were patched up and Wilson since re-asserted his full commitment. For what it's worth, Wilson never entertained the notion of declaring for the IFA. No need scaremonger.

How did Trap alienate McCarthy exactly? McCarthy never once indicated he was considering a switch to Scotland. He missed a couple of games due to a niggling injury concern; nothing Trap could have done about that. He brought him in against Macedonia when he felt he was ready. What's the problem?

There's more to come on the Kelly story. It was initially reported that Kelly was rested, but was Kelly then asked to join the squad at a later date? If so, what reason was given for not joining up with the team?

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

to throw the dodi out of the pram..

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I think he was thrown out of a car actually.

Is anyone really that surprised by Trap anymore? He's a complete joke.

But I reckon I could do almost as good a job as Trap - ArdeeBhoy - you sound like any one of a hundred meeja hacks who are acting "in the public interest". Remember the crowing of the meeja when they knew 100% he was gone, then suddenly when he turned up at matches it was because of THEIR pressure. Winning a league with Manchester United on FM 2011 doesn't make you fit to manage internationally, despite what it may feel like.

This is the latest in a long line of crap from the Irish meeja that anyone older than 10 and with half a brain cell has experienced many times before. Apparently Irish rugby was the best in the world and Triple Crowns were not enough, the meeja ruined one manager and now are trying their best to get rid of another. Charlton was hammered for not picking the media darlings and ruling with a fist of iron. McCarthy was dead after Saipan as sponsors and media needed "Keano" in the fold. Brian Kerr realised that his bessie mates would turn on him in a second once he no longer became useful to sell airtime and newspapers.

The irish meeja have turned into a horrible version of the english tabloids and what would go on locally (build someone up to knock them down) now happens nationally and our football media and supporters become a joke. Unless results on the pitch warrant otherwise, I don't see how this drummed up nonsense of "communication" being thrown in the mix time and again should have anything to do with the situation. Kelly is no choirboy, nor saint, yet today we're being told he is the 22nd coming of christ on a bike with Messi's skills!

Jesus Spud, if you want to rant about meeja agendas then you'd want to lay off the tabloid sensationalism.

Did Kelly release that statement with a journalists pen to his head? Also "yet today we're being told he is the 22nd coming of christ on a bike with Messi's skills!" - no one has said anything of the sort.

Either way, there is a litany of issues that any fan over the age of 10 and with half a brain cell would take great exception to. He's a bluffer and a spoofer.

So it's media's fault...

I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I think he was thrown out of a car actually.

Is anyone really that surprised by Trap anymore? He's a complete joke.

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Sources tell me what actually happened was a horse's head was thrown into Kelly's bed

A thread dies a rational death, when Sku claims that anyone over the age of 10 who doesn't agree with him, hasn't got more than one half a brain cell :)

Apparently some of these lads would believe anything, so why not the horse's head story?
Tardelli could do that, couldn't he? anyone with half a brain cell can see that? :)

Anyway, it seems clear that either Trap or Kelly are lying here - not just misleading or misunderstanding, lying - because he either made himself available or he didn't. Regardless, it was unnecessary to put it out into the public sphere, especially with the already strong unhappiness with the Trapattoni regime.

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Originally Posted by geysir

A thread dies a rational death, when Sku claims that anyone over the age of 10 who doesn't agree with him, hasn't got more than one half a brain cell :)

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Did you not notice that I took it from Spuds post above my own?

I'm not talking to you right now, my <1 braincell can't process info that fast.
.......
but he said it differently,
you said it like you meant it and that was believable because you've form on that level of debate :)

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Originally Posted by brine3

Jesus, he presided over the worst home loss in the history of Irish football.

We all know he'd have been sacked already but the FAI can't afford to pay off his contract. He's a lame duck manager.

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Two campaigns and a quarter so far unbeaten away from home with a team made up primarily of journeymen Premiership and Championship players. Blasted lame duck manager!

Why would Trap say it if it were not true? I suspect Kelly has joined the ranks of the prima donnas who now feel that a starting place on a mighty Reading side (having been warming the Fulham bench) entitles them to a starting place in an international side. It's the lemmings syndrome. One breaks rank and many now decide to follow. However, Trap should have dealt with it internally instead of opening his mouth.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I'm not talking to you right now, my <1 braincell can't process info that fast.
.......
but he said it differently,
you said it like you meant it and that was believable because you've form on that level of debate :)

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Sure. It was a harmless reference to his post above mine. Not sure why you try and paint me that way but whatever you're into. I just try to put my points across when I have them. I thought thats why we're all here.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Sources tell me what actually happened was a horse's head was thrown into Kelly's bed

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I heard he woke up one morning and there was a Tesco burger on his pillow.

#TrapOut #KellyOut #DelaneyOut #EveryoneOut

I think I covered all the bases. I love a good moan....

Oh wait #HoolahanIn

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Why would Trap say it if it were not true? I suspect Kelly has joined the ranks of the prima donnas who now feel that a starting place on a mighty Reading side (having been warming the Fulham bench) entitles them to a starting place in an international side. It's the lemmings syndrome. One breaks rank and many now decide to follow. However, Trap should have dealt with it internally instead of opening his mouth.

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Of all the players that have fallen foul of Trap, I suspect Andy Reid, Kevin Foley and now Stephen Kelly are far from prima donnas

Now that i think about it, didn't Kelly have a fall out with Pullis at Stoke too??

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Now that i think about it, didn't Kelly have a fall out with Pullis at Stoke too??

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He loved Dandy Andy Wilkinson
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk...#axzz2KKCSiZMp

How many all in?
Stephen Reid
Andy Reid
Shane Long
Kevin Foley
Daron Gibson
Kevin Doyle (Sort of)
Stephen Kelly
Ian Harte (arguably)
Joey O'Brien
Mark Wilson

Anyone else??

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Of all the players that have fallen foul of Trap, I suspect Andy Reid, Kevin Foley and now Stephen Kelly are far from prima donnas

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Kelly is a very good pro, and a very decent man. Certainly no prima donna. Don't think he ever played for Stoke.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Anyway, it seems clear that either Trap or Kelly are lying here - not just misleading or misunderstanding, lying - because he either made himself available or he didn't. Regardless, it was unnecessary to put it out into the public sphere, especially with the already strong unhappiness with the Trapattoni regime.

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Dan McDonnell says on Twitter he doesn't think Trap was "implying Kelly had turned down a call-up" which does suggest a misunderstanding of some sort.

That'd be even worse tbh for Trap to be honest.

FAI have weighed in too, not happy. Reported via Twitter: "The association would prefer if team matters like the one before Faroes match...were dealt with in private."

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

Kelly is a very good pro, and a very decent man. Certainly no prima donna. Don't think he ever played for Stoke.

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After Birmingham and before Fulham.

Only thing is everyone on here will fight tooth and nail on Kellys behalf, then he will play against Sweden, do terrible, and everyone will be saying how he is not a real Int'l player and should not even be in the squad.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Only thing is everyone on here will fight tooth and nail on Kellys behalf, then he will play against Sweden, do terrible, and everyone will be saying how he is not a real Int'l player and should not even be in the squad.

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Where do you get impressions like that? :confused:

B/C it is a very reactionary board, like most fan boards are. Read back on Kellys thread if you have time after matches he has played in.

Foot.ie reactionary? I dunno. I certainly wouldn't tar "everyone" here with that brush. I think this forum is a diverse and broadly level-headed one with even our resident unionists adding to the welcome assortment of discussion.

I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

All i meant was that Kelly's value as a player is being overstated today by people who dont like Trap. Some peeps who always slag Kelly are defending him b/c of an anti Trap agenda. Which is fine. I was just pointing that out.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

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Not at all.

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All i meant was that Kelly's value as a player is being overstated today by people who dont like Trap. Some peeps who always slag Kelly are defending him b/c of an anti Trap agenda. Which is fine. I was just pointing that out.

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Not everything needs to be so black and white. You can recognise that Kelly is a peripheral squad player, but also be of the opinion that Trap is out-of-order to treat any player in such a fashion, especially if you perceive him to have form in that department. I'm not saying that's my opnion - I think there's more light to be shed on this - but not everyone here is a posting stereotype.

Wait a minute. Nobody is claiming Kelly is brilliant, but he has been a solid backup for us for years. Trap shouldn't be slinging mud and airing dirty washing in public just to cover his endangered ass. Surely everyone can agree on that, whether you're pro or anti Trap. Total lack of professionalism.

Opinion now:
He is a lame duck and a change of management would give us a positive reaction that might just get us a playoff.

[QUOTE=OwlsFan;1661177campaigns and a quarter so far unbeaten away from home with a team made up primarily of journeymen Premiership and ionship players. Blasted lame duck manager!
.[/QUOTE]

Youre being selective there.
We also havent beaten a top 3 seed at home either, which is usually the backbone and measure of a decent campaign. Sure, we qualified once, largely by being drawn against Estonia IMO. Record home defeat, stuffed in Poland etc. ...

Lets meet halfway: His record is/was OK, but he's out of order here.

Tonight's FAI statement sounds like another attempt to make Trap jump. Surely that sort of thing is the definition of "lame duck".

The Trap needs to nip this in the bud & call Kelly to apologise or explain it's a big misunderstanding.

Not rocket science.

2 bad results next month & he's a goner anyway. Fans & press both want blood so inevitable he will be sacked with the next bad result.

The most interesting aspect of Kelly's statement is what he doesn't say.

There seems to be a disconnect in that he's denying refusing a call-up for the Poland, which Trap has acknowledged he wasn't trying to imply. He says Trap's comments are "untrue" and that his commitment to the Irish cause has never been under question, yet he makes no attempt to deny refusing to board the plane to Kazakhstan. I think Trap has dealt with this poorly (as usual) but hard to have any sympathy for Kelly as he hasn't made any obvious effort to rehabilitate himself.

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Originally Posted by p2011

Tonight's FAI statement sounds like another attempt to make Trap jump. Surely that sort of thing is the definition of "lame duck".

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Certainly, it seems like we'll have a different manager this time next year. And while it's always hard to work out who's right and wrong in these cases - cos you can can only hear what's being aired in the media - it's hard to avoid the view that there do seem to be issues in the dressing room, whoever's at fault. That's twice now in recent months the FAI have come out and told the manager how to do his job.

Or maybe Delaney is just lining the job up for himself?

Just playing devils advocate for a sec---do our players sometimes need thicker skin?

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Foot.ie reactionary? I dunno. I certainly wouldn't tar "everyone" here with that brush. I think this forum is a diverse and broadly level-headed one with even our resident unionists adding to the welcome assortment of discussion.

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I think most people on here are articulate and constructive in their views but I'm starting to question the general balance amongst the masses. I'm not exactly sure where I fall on the Trap debate, I see pros and cons and would really need to know his replacement before I'm swayed too far in one direction. Obviously I won't be afforded this luxury so I'm fairly content to sit on the fence to an extent.

Trap's preparation in terms of watching players, communicating properly, etc clearly leaves a lot to be desired. I've no doubt in my mind that Brian Kerr would carry out this kind of work in a much more professional manner. Would Kerr have taken Staunton's horrific remains to the Euros within two campaigns and almost to the WC within one? Maybe he would have done but I doubt it. Trap obviously brings, or at least has brought, other things to the setup to counteract his shortcomings. Does this excuse him for being lazy? No. Does this mean that he couldn't have done a better job if he had cleaned up his act in relation to the job he was supposed to be doing? Of course not.

I feel we have to be careful what we wish for and although we might replace him easily in terms of professionalism and dedication, there are very few managers who contain that special aura that his track record merits. He's a much bigger deal than our players and this, for me, is a positive. We really can't fault the spirit of our fairly limited bunch during Trap's reign. This could well stem from their admiration and respect for the boss I would think.

Maybe Trap should have left after The Euros, but that was his decision to make given the nature of his contract. He decided to plough on with a fairly demoralised bunch who had reached a natural transition. The Germans coming to town and clinically proving the undoubted gulf between their players and ours was a blunt reminder that the Euros wasn't just a bad dream! Still, a solid win in the Faroes to go with the lucky win in Kazakhstan leaves us on 6 points and in a similar enough position to the start of our last qualification campaign, the notable difference being that the Swedes are unlikely to turn out as flimsy as the Slovaks.

Anyway, it is what it is at this stage and whether Trap should have gone or been sacked already is irrelevant in my view. We have two potentially group defining games coming up and a change of manager at this point would surely be counter productive in almost every sense. Who better to lead us to Stockholm than a manager who hasn't lost an away qualifier since beginning with us in 2008? If we get two positive results he has more than earned the right to see out the rest of his contract.

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Now that i think about it, didn't Kelly have a fall out with Pullis at Stoke too??

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Kelly played six games on loan at Stoke. I don't know where the fallout with Pulis comes from though. This is what Pulis had to say at the end of that loan-spell:

"He did smashing whenever he came in for us," said Pulis, "but he was very unfortunate in that his chances were obviously limited.
"He's a player I would have been very interested in had there been different circumstances, but the fact is he was too much like Andy Wilkinson age-wise."


Can't see any sign of a fall-out there.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Just playing devils advocate for a sec---do our players sometimes need thicker skin?

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I think footballers in general just need to quit being such massive tarts. With regard to the Irish lads, you'd really pine for the days of Moran, McCarthy, Whelan, Houghton, Aldo etc. proper men.

Traps day has come and gone. I hate this "we're crap so we should take what we are given" attitude. Based on his recent record then he is deserves the criticism he is getting. Tactically he is inept, refuses to adjust or be flexible. Has fallen out with numerous people. Treatment of Foley was also horrendous, but then again Foley is not brilliant so it's ok to treat him like crap. Then we question player commitment? If you are treated badly you react in kind.



I see so many excuses for Trapattoni's behaviour, great record, he got us to the Euros even though we are crap so all hail St Giovanni! In Modern football you have to be adaptable to change open minded, flexible. Even Alex Ferguson alters tactics from time to time, not Trap though cause we're Ireland, we're sh!t and all we can do is punt it 100 yards, and some fans say yeah he's spot on!


Lets see who else he falls out with between now and the end of his reign and how they are to blame.

DeLorean, I respect your well thought out post but I think that the fence that some sit on is really the dividing line between those to whom success is defined purely on the w/l columns and successful qualifications. On the other side are those to whom results still matter but who also place a higher value on other tangibles like (balancing results with) style with succession planning with managerial style and so on...

It's all subjective though. I'm in the latter camp obviously and have been for most of his tenure but I get why others focus on results as, essentially, the be all and end all. It's hard to argue with it.

Now, while I appreciate the alternate view, it's not going to stop me expressing my own! :)

I think that is a good post from both Delorean and Stu.
I guess what i was trying to say before and didnt do a good job of it, I mean the squad won 2-0. Was it like watchign Barca? No, but when is that ever the case? There was a lot of flogging. The URL would have blown up if we had somehow lost to Poland, I guess.
Im too lazy to go on wiki or whatever but i would like to see the records of each tenure: Mick, Kerr, Stan, Trap.