Huge Game for our League

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Originally Posted by patsh

However, this attitude that somehow Shels success will see the rest of us right, those who realise this are "real" and superior eL fans, and anyone who says otherwise is a "knuckle-dragger" a "yob" and "is quite happy to kick the sh*te out of" rivals, is absolute bulls*ht, Eoin.

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Firstly i didnt call anyone a "knuckle-dragger", a "yob" or whatever.

Secondly the last time shels played at the cross i saw a shels team that played professionaly and played us off the park. We deserved to lose that day. Pat Dolan has to get across to the players why we lost and fix it. Moaning about shels and hoping they wont do well in Europe doesnt really help city. Learning from them probably will.
We should be able to do it with a bit more style obviously.

I am interested in the comparisons being made between the development and advances shown by the smaller clubs in Europe and EL clubs. One point not being made is the fact that we are an Island. It is far easier for small clubs on the mainland to attract players of a good standard from neighbouring countries. Players who, while talented enough, cannot make it into their own countries Premier League teams. These players are also affordable because their prime motivation is to get playing and be seen. We have to rely on home grown talent who cannot make the breakthrough across channel and return home. :ball: Unless of course you are Roddie Collins and have just opened a Dublin based vacation centre for the retired proffessional footballers association of Great Britain. :D

i agree entirely observer roddy collins should be 4ucked and burned in my opinion because when he was manager of carlisle he was saying how high the standrs was compared to the EL and brought a wagon load of irish players with him well why didnt he bring them back with him? Instead of bring mercenaries over for matches says what he thinks about irish players!! Im all for having as many internationals in the league as possible but not a 40 year old failed manager who played for England to a nations ridicule or a Nigerian striker who could never cut the mustard at the highest level

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but 'oily' byrne obviously does give a 4uck about football in this country because he is willing to get up off his arse and invest and try and bring his club forward which no matter what anyone says about him he has done

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As does most everybody else in this country. As far as I know, no one is trying to bring their club backwards...(except maybe Waterford? according to some of their fans)

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Originally Posted by eoinh

Firstly i didnt call anyone a "knuckle-dragger", a "yob" or whatever.

Secondly the last time shels played at the cross i saw a shels team that played professionaly and played us off the park. We deserved to lose that day. Pat Dolan has to get across to the players why we lost and fix it. Moaning about shels and hoping they wont do well in Europe doesnt really help city. Learning from them probably will.
We should be able to do it with a bit more style obviously.

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1. I didn't say you used those terms Eoin, they have been used on this thread though.
2. I also saw a thoroughly professional display by Shels out the cross, and we were well beaten. Its up to Pat Dolan to sort this out, and I also reckon EVERYONE connected with City knows exactly how far behind we are and what we have to do.
However, I simply fail to see any connection between this and demanding of fans that they wish Shels success in Europe.:confused:

your just being petty now of course no one wants to bring there club backwards but there isnt too many people who are will to invest in the EL clubs or there local school boy clubs for that matter so we cant really knock anyone who does

Everyone's focusing on the additional revenue that Shels could attract from a relatively small number of European games (3 or 4 home games in the UEFA group stages - only 1 or 2 of which would be big-name sell-outs - and TV rights to 2 or 3 live matches) as if that will suddenly give them a sufficiently large war-chest to dominate Irish football for all eternity.

The real financial benefit of ANY Irish club doing well in Europe is not from such one-off, opposition-dependent income. It's instead from rich idiots like Courtenay, McManus, Magnier etc, who suddenly twig that it'd be a much better investment to put a small amount of money into an Irish team with genuinely strong potential (Bohs, Cork, Derry etc) than to put a much larger sum into a nothing team like Carlisle that would be unlikely to deliver any return. or a much bigger sum into Man U or Celtic with a much lower likely yield on your investment.

If Irish clubs keep themselves in the public eye through European exploits, sooner or later somebody will see them as a good low-cost financial investment. You would only need to spend a few million on an Irish team that within 3-4yrs could realistically be in the Champions League group stages. Hey presto - serious return on your money for the bored rich, and you become a local hero for Irish sport. No great negative impact if it doesn't work out, as the initial outlay would be relatively small versus your net worth.

Without reliable forms of income, teams can't afford to sign all the best players in the League and dominate it totally. Praying for group-stage qualification each year and games against big European clubs is not a reliable form of income to budget against. Speculating in this way would be foolish for Shels or any other Irish club (ref. Leeds United). Shels have one of the lowest reliable incomes in the league, as their crowds are crap.

The real benefit of any Irish team doing well in Europe would therefore be to stimulate external investment in the league. Ironically, that investment could well go to other clubs than the likes of Shels.

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Originally Posted by inexile

your just being petty now of course no one wants to bring there club backwards but there isnt too many people who are will to invest in the EL clubs or there local school boy clubs for that matter so we cant really knock anyone who does

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How am I being petty?
You claimed Byrne was interested in eL soccer because he wants to bring his club forward. Doesn't everybody?
Is pointing this out being petty?...:rolleyes:

thats not what im talking about what i meant was you are in no position to knock him as he pumps his money in to his club when i bet you havent gone near your local schoolboy junior or el club to try and help in any way you can whether that be by donating either your time or money as i have already stated its obvious no one wants to bring their club backward but how many of us actually make a serios efforet to bring it forward and until we do we cant be in a position to knock people who do

Good points dcfcsteve, and I've already made the arugment before in different threads that a higher profile for the eL, no matter what club brings that profile, might attract investment to some eL clubs.
However, I resent the continually made argument that fans who do not want to see a rival club get ahead of their club are doing the league a diservice. If thats the case, lets disband all clubs, form one big team and we can all support that team together...

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Originally Posted by inexile

thats not what im talking about what i meant was you are in no position to knock him as he pumps his money in to his club when i bet you havent gone near your local schoolboy junior or el club to try and help in any way you can whether that be by donating either your time or money as i have already stated its obvious no one wants to bring their club backward but how many of us actually make a serios efforet to bring it forward and until we do we cant be in a position to knock people who do

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A small bit of advice to you. Don't assume you ever know anything about another poster. You have no idea what position the poster may or may not be in.

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Originally Posted by patsh

However, I resent the continually made argument that fans who do not want to see a rival club get ahead of their club are doing the league a diservice.

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My point is that shels doing well in europe is just as big a benefit to city as it is to shels. or anyother LOI club.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Everyone's focusing on the additional revenue that Shels could attract from a relatively small number of European games (3 or 4 home games in the UEFA group stages - only 1 or 2 of which would be big-name sell-outs - and TV rights to 2 or 3 live matches) as if that will suddenly give them a sufficiently large war-chest to dominate Irish football for all eternity.

The real financial benefit of ANY Irish club doing well in Europe is not from such one-off, opposition-dependent income. It's instead from rich idiots like Courtenay, McManus, Magnier etc, who suddenly twig that it'd be a much better investment to put a small amount of money into an Irish team with genuinely strong potential (Bohs, Cork, Derry etc) than to put a much larger sum into a nothing team like Carlisle that would be unlikely to deliver any return. or a much bigger sum into Man U or Celtic with a much lower likely yield on your investment.

If Irish clubs keep themselves in the public eye through European exploits, sooner or later somebody will see them as a good low-cost financial investment. You would only need to spend a few million on an Irish team that within 3-4yrs could realistically be in the Champions League group stages. Hey presto - serious return on your money for the bored rich, and you become a local hero for Irish sport. No great negative impact if it doesn't work out, as the initial outlay would be relatively small versus your net worth.

Without reliable forms of income, teams can't afford to sign all the best players in the League and dominate it totally. Praying for group-stage qualification each year and games against big European clubs is not a reliable form of income to budget against. Speculating in this way would be foolish for Shels or any other Irish club (ref. Leeds United). Shels have one of the lowest reliable incomes in the league, as their crowds are crap.

The real benefit of any Irish team doing well in Europe would therefore be to stimulate external investment in the league. Ironically, that investment could well go to other clubs than the likes of Shels.

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I would agree with this 100%

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Originally Posted by patsh

A small bit of advice to you. Don't assume you ever know anything about another poster. You have no idea what position the poster may or may not be in.

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fair enough point taken but im my eyes that makes it worse because if you do put your time and effort into club you know how much hard work it can be and how often you get **** for thanks

Some interesting points made by both sides of the argument.

I'll still be supporting Shels, even more so when I realised that there are double coefficient points available for these games, so progress would benefit the league even more.

Yeah well, its all ****** now anyway Lilles 2 up at half time!!!!

Quite the come back, 2-2 now

7,400!!!! fucin joke... why was it not played in tolka???? the only reason it should be in lansdowne is when at least 20,000 ppl are in attendance.... shels would have done much better if 7,400 ppl were and it been played in tolka!!!
when Galway United get into europe they better play it in Terryland!!!!
well done shels.... do it for ireland!!

sorry mistake with figures...it was 7,463

Our floodlights aren't good enough.

Shocking attendence, it looked terrible on TV. Shels actually lost money on it, aye?

Heartless performance from Shels. Sloppy mistakes, looked like they didn't want to be there. Whatver happened to the spirit shown against Hadjuk Split and Depor?
Great last 10 minutes though. Fair play.

Wesser had a mare !!
Totally left Lille go at them in the first .... Shels improved in the second and probably would have deserved something if they had played like that all game. They didn't deserve to draw but fair play for doing so !!

C'mon City !!

Well done Shels. Great fighting spirit - Lille looked a class side and really up for it in the first half.

A bit lucky ok but Shels will reap the benefits of this for the next 5 years once they qualify for Europe and our champions will be seeded next year whether it is Shels, Drogheda, Bohs or Cork - probably Shels.

Fair play to Shels last night.
No matter what anyone might think of the club, to keep going and get a draw in a game where they could easily have been 4 or 5 down at half time, is a great result and was some achievement by those players.
If "Lucy Lu" waas any use at all, he could have had a hat trick in the first half, alone.
Fair play to the team, and with Byrne and Moore to come back in, Shels are still in with a great chance.

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Originally Posted by ShelsTim

Our floodlights aren't good enough.

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they had like about 2/3 weeks to install new floodlights after the depor match... any improvements could have easily been done in the time they had.... the floodlights have to be fixed sometime!!! more than lightly they will have some euro matches next year...will they be played in lansdowne also???? they should improve tolka in the close season or start making good plans to built a proper 12,000 -> 15,000 seater stadium, which can be used by all el teams in europe... shels do things much too slowly... its a company not a charity... ye are all full time... now start to look like it...plz

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Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis

they had like about 2/3 weeks to install new floodlights after the depor match... any improvements could have easily been done in the time they had....

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In fairness theres no way you could do it in that time.

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more than lightly they will have some euro matches next year...will they be played in lansdowne also????

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Why do i get the feeling you didnt mean that as a pun?

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Originally Posted by eoinh

Why do i get the feeling you didnt mean that as a pun?

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ok you have lost me...where's the pun...didnt mean to have one

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Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis

ok you have lost me...where's the pun...didnt mean to have one

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Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis

more than lightly

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you don't get away with much round here

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Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis

they should improve tolka in the close season or start making good plans to built a proper 12,000 -> 15,000 seater stadium,

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There's already plans for a new stadium, we wont be in Tolka for too much longer. That's the rumour anyway.

**** performance from Shels to be fair for the first 80 minutes but in a strange way, if anything, that can be used to our advantage. We played rubbish and still drew with them and we've two of our most influencial players to come back. We paid Lille too much respect and yet still carved them open at times, there's no doubt at all that if we go at Lille we can create chances. Lille will be favourites, but if we go and play as well as we can and have in the past we're capable of getting the result imo. If we play like that again we'll be destroyed though.

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happened to the spirit shown against Hadjuk Split and Depor?

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You saw it in the last ten minutes. We went from dead and buried too still very much in contention. I agree it was lacking for the rest of the game though, if we can get it together for the whole of the away leg we could do well.

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Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis

they had like about 2/3 weeks to install new floodlights after the depor match... any improvements could have easily been done in the time they had.... the floodlights have to be fixed sometime!!! more than lightly they will have some euro matches next year...will they be played in lansdowne also???? they should improve tolka in the close season or start making good plans to built a proper 12,000 -> 15,000 seater stadium, which can be used by all el teams in europe... shels do things much too slowly... its a company not a charity... ye are all full time... now start to look like it...plz

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1. 2/3 weeks isn't enough to install floodlights and I think we had less than that with CHF and Derry
2. We don't exactly have money to be chucking around on spanking newe floodlights
3. We're moving soon anyway so there's no point improving Tolka too much before then.
4. 'which can be used by all el teams in europe', can you imagine Bohs, Longford or Cork playing in Shels' home ground for European games?
5. We're the ones who have made the breakthrough in Europe considerably faster than all the other eL teams, bar Cork but they're only in the InterToto (no offence to Cork).

Shelbourne's and Cork City's results in Europe are just a continuation of the preformances of recent years.
Shelbourne's "breakthrough" is by getting into the CL's 3rd qualifying round, they've opened up a whole new oppurtunity to play a bunch of matches in Europe and win points for themselves.

With UEFA's introduction of more and more clubs in European competition in the 1990's. League of Ireland clubs were finally able to reverse the
nosedive started in the mid-1980's when Irish clubs went 4/5 years without scoring a goal.

Slowly, slowly eircom League clubs have progressed through the rounds of the different competitions. Shels and City are just taking the next step.

Other positives, City continued their great European home record and Shels are unbeaten at home this year.