Best of luck to Deportivo from the Rebel Army!

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Originally Posted by pete

Thursday night football doesn't help. Cork-Derry-Cork is like 2 day trip.

btw whats biggest away crowd at the Brandy this season...?

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All the games this season were Saturday night up until a few weeks ago, but I take the point, Thurs is a non-starter for most away fans (and a lot of exiled home fans). Another area where the FAI need to be firm and compel clubs to play at a certain time.

I'd say the biggest away crowd in Derry (apart from our 1st division near neighbours who jump at the chance to see what life's like in the city) is consistently Rovers, eg they had about 200 up for the last game. They also tend to bring some of their charming friends from Belfast who bring so much to EL football :D

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Originally Posted by max power

one of only a few sensible city posts

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The vast majority of posts here are sensible, it's just that they don't accord with your point of view.
NOT ONE SOLITARY PERSON has given ONE convincing argument as to why $h£l$ going through last night would have been good for the league.
They are well ahead now, and fair play to them, it's because of hard work and effort, but there are a few clubs who ARE trying to catch up.
Bohs, City, Derry, Drogs, Longford would have little or no chance of catching $h£l$ if they get access to Champions League money. How could any other club get anywhere near the millions that $h£l$ would get?
I support Cork City, and I don't want my club to have no chance at all of winning the league for the next 5 or 6 years.
If thats petty minded, good, because its better than having the downright stupid attitude that you want $h£l$ to dominate your club and your league.
Just who is seeing "the bigger picture" ?

Anyone else think shels were overly physical last night. Not that this should be a surprise to eL people but be interested to know what non-eL people think of it.

Williams was stupidly (could see he too far off line for freekick) positioned for 3rd goal & Moore was a compleet idiot to get sent off & miss next euro game but then again his manager hardly showed a good example.

Game last night looked like shels had believed the hype that they had realistic chance of progressing & really did seem like bad losers (that does that positice side though) when can't have too many complaints about result.

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Originally Posted by patsh

If thats petty minded, good, because its better than having the downright stupid attitude that you want $h£l$ to dominate your club and your league.
Just who is seeing "the bigger picture" ?

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Like so many others on here you seem to want the league to remain stagnant until City are in a postion to move up to the next level.
We should be in a far stronger position than any of the 6 Dublin clubs given our relative monoply on football in the south west.
If we can't compete with Shels then we may as well give up and let a more ambitious club take out place in the league.
Hoping that Shels don't have success so that the league will remain weak enough for us to win it is a very unfortunate aspiration to have.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

Like so many others on here you seem to want the league to remain stagnant until City are in a postion to move up to the next level.
We should be in a far stronger position than any of the 6 Dublin clubs given our relative monoply on football in the south west.
If we can't compete with Shels then we may as well give up and let a more ambitious club take out place in the league.
Hoping that Shels don't have success so that the league will remain weak enough for us to win it is a very unfortunate aspiration to have.

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Like so many others on here, you seem to read whatever you feel like into peoples posts. Like a few others on here, you should disabuse yourelf of the notion that you somehow have more insight than others.
1. The league has not/is not remaining stagnant. More clubs have gone full time, more clubs appreciate just what they need to do to get success and are attempting to do it, the move to summer soccer in an attempt to improve etc. etc.
2. At the moment, we can almost compete with $h£l$ and are trying hard to catch up. However, if they get access to millions of €, we have no hope of competing for a long time, and neither does any other club.
3. $h£l$ already have a lot of success, and most other clubs are trying to emulate that. This is already ensuring that the league will remain anything but weak.

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Originally Posted by max power

but cry all ya want, next season we could be there again and seeing as the inter tayto cup is gone, where do yee go :confused:

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check your facts bud

toto cup got gone til the following season :D

sorry then, got that wrong.....so you'll be in another pointless euro comp next year, enough it keep pat in the job for another 12 months :D

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Originally Posted by max power

sorry then, got that wrong.....so you'll be in another pointless euro comp next year, enough it keep pat in the job for another 12 months :D

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but winning games and making money along the way ;)

agreed, but where is it going.....paying bills yes....no other sucess has to be a let down.....at the end of the season dolan will have had 2 full seasons..not much more than alan with a much larger budget, but where is the silverware for the BIGGEST club in Ireland....

i really think Ego fans need to take a long hard look at the club and realise how many seasons without silverware ???

btw the above is not a pi$$ take but simple truth.

No one needs to tell City fans just how few trophys we have won Max.
However, the chairman and whole club is doing their very best to do something about that. You can't expect more than that.

yes you can, from the BIGGEST club in Ireland...the BEST SUPPORTED club in Ireland.....all Dloans's words.

where is the silverware to prove this, i think its time Cork fans faced reality, if there was a prize for under achievement....they would win hands down. yet yee seem to be happy with a run in a pointless european competition. strange that, isn't it....

ya can say what ya want about shels ( and corner you usually do ) but you need to be more like them, if dolan shut his mouth and focused on the team like Pat Fenlon, maybe Cork could be in that position.

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Originally Posted by max power

where is the silverware.

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Look Max you won the cup once and got into Europe twice.
Enjoy it while you can but it doesn't make your club great.
Being humiliated in Europe is bad for the league.
You WILL NOT win the cup this year!
You WILL NOT qualify for Europe this year!
Mark my words.

where is the silverware to prove this, i think its time Cork fans faced reality, if there was a prize for under achievement....they would win hands down. yet yee seem to be happy with a run in a pointless european competition. strange that, isn't it....

ya can say what ya want about shels ( and corner you usually do ) but you need to be more like them, if dolan shut his mouth and focused on the team like Pat Fenlon, maybe Cork could be in that position.[/QUOTE]

Have to agree with you there!
We should be doing more to improve our own lot.
Dolan runs the biggest smoke screen this side of Bush's WMD campaign.
However, I don't care which EL team Deportivo beat last night, I would be sick as a dog if any other EL could generate that kind of income and turn the EL into a mini SPL. Except CORK CITY cos I want my team to become the
biggest, most sucessful team in Europe
And if you can't say the same about your team...glad you don't follow City.
This is not being egotistical or sniping at Dublin or anything else, just pure footballing logic.

we are the best supported club in ireland, in terms of gate receipts at least.

the 'biggest' club is more a statement of potential. ccfc are the only eL club in the city. it's not unrealistic, with a little success on the pitch, to hope for regular gates of 8,000 - providing a platform for continued success. everything is in place for ccfc to become the biggest club in the country, but if it does happen it will take time.

as for being more like shels, well that's exactly what pat dolan wants. we have a young team that are far from the finished article. we have only relatively recently begun the process of turning professional. we still don't have proper training facilities. no-one expected league success this season - the intertoto cup run was a bonus which maybe led to unrealistic expectations on the part of some fans - so to say the club have underachieved is unfair. even financially, pat dolan has yet to spend a cent in the transfer market, although our wage-bill is high.

dolan is an outspoken guy. he always was, and always will be. the positive side of that is he raises the profile of the club, the negative that he rubs a lot of people up the wrong way. it's always been an irish trait to knock ambititon. stand up and say 'we're going to be the best' and you get attacked. but without ambition you go nowhere. i'd rather be in the position of having a huge amount of potential and the willingness to work hard to realise that potential than to have short-term success on the pitch but no room to grow as a club.

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Originally Posted by wiseman

ya can say what ya want about shels ( and corner you usually do ).

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its not just shels i hate

add bohs,dublin city,pats,rovers,waterford,derry,longord,drogs to the list

i couldnt give a sh!t about any of them

i only care about city

answering peadar, true we will not win the league, but then again we never said we would or that we are the best team around....

to be honest we are blessed at the mo. but we face facts, we over achieve for the size of our budget.....SOME of your supporters are just living in a different world thinking that the wins in europe made cork the greatest team ever...

as was said above, shels have set the level, its up to yee to catch them now.

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Originally Posted by max power

its up to yee to catch them now.

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dont ye have any ambition of catching them :D

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Originally Posted by thecorner

its not just shels i hate

add bohs,dublin city,pats,rovers,waterford,derry,longord,drogs to the list

i couldnt give a sh!t about any of them

i only care about city

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agreed, i couldn't give a $hite about any of them either, but i don't hate them.....well maybe rovers. but its a small league and we have to work together to bring up the standard and the profile. thats the problemn with thsi little island of ours, we all work against each other to try and get the result.

at the mo, the main thing for us finanical stabilty, that gives us the scope to push forward with a bigger budget. no point in gambleing the clubs future on a whime. pats tried it and look where they are now.

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Originally Posted by thecorner

its not just shels i hate

add bohs,dublin city,pats,rovers,waterford,derry,longord,drogs to the list

i couldnt give a sh!t about any of them

i only care about city

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After 2,228 posts I'd expepct a bit more maturity but obviously it's too much to ask for. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

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Originally Posted by Peadar

You're so paranoid it's not even funny!

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Not really to be honest !!

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We need to get our act together before we can challenge for the league, regardless of how much Shels make. That's the way it's been for years. We can't even beat Dublin City FFS! We can't base our ambitions on the hope that Shels fail and drop back down to our level. We and the rest of the league need to aim to rise to their level. For decades we've craved recognition for the league and Shels have done an enormous amount towards getting that for the league.

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I didnt and have never disagreed with that .... there is no wool over my eyes.

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Wake up and see the bigger picture lads.
The fact of the matter is, we could not emulate what Shels have done this season and most of us are jealous.

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Agreed again ..... but again ..... If Shels won last night ... what good would it have done ... it would have raised the profile of the league and that is it. No other eL club would have benefited from it.

My argument is that it is not good for the league to have one team pull away from the pack and dominate for the next 10-20 years. It would be like watching SPL .... Shíte ..... Thats what we should avoid. That is all i am saying.

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Originally Posted by A face

My argument is that it is not good for the league to have one team pull away from the pack and dominate for the next 10-20 years. It would be like watching SPL .... Shíte ..... Thats what we should avoid. That is all i am saying.

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The truth is that Dublin clubs have pretty much dominated the league for so long now that we'd be no worse off it Shels took sole custody of that monoply. We've got a lot to do before we can compete at the level of Bohs and Shels but just catching them isn't enough, we need to be in a position to maintain consistency and success. The fact that Shels have shown the level of success possible should encourage investment in rival clubs.

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Originally Posted by A face

My argument is that it is not good for the league to have one team pull away from the pack and dominate for the next 10-20 years. It would be like watching SPL .... Shíte ..... Thats what we should avoid. That is all i am saying.

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I don't understand this attitude. Someone has to make the breakthrough. Should we insist that our champions throw their final qualifying round matches until we get two or more teams into the Champions League?

Well done Depor. They managed to overcome the thugs. Now we have to do the same. its not about football when you play that scum

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

I don't understand this attitude. Someone has to make the breakthrough. Should we insist that our champions throw their final qualifying round matches until we get two or more teams into the Champions League?

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Why not?
Don't you want your club to win the league?
Don't you want your club to have a chance at the start of every season?
It is a catch-22 for eL supporters. Yes we want success in Europe, but at the expense of our own clubs?
Thats a double edged sword.
How many fans of clubs in England, Wales, Italy, France, Germany etc. etc would like to see a club in thier league have access to so much money that thier own club simply could not compete and would always be fighting for second place?
Given the economics of the game in Ireland, there is a real danger of that happening if ANY club gets to the CL group stages.
I want to an Irish club in the CL groups as soon as possible, but not at the possible expense of losing the eL as a competition.
Anyone who cannot see or understand the dilemma is not facing reality.

(apologies for the amount of cliches...:o )

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Originally Posted by patsh

I want to an Irish club in the CL groups as soon as possible, but not at the possible expense of losing the eL as a competition.
Anyone who cannot see or understand the dilemma is not facing reality.

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Well, first off, the potential for a Rosenborg-style situation to emerge as a result of an eL club reaching the Champions League group stages has been utterly exaggerated. A far better case study for Irish fans to examine, in terms of the standard of football and the prevalence of (in this case, far more serious) negative external influences, would be that of Israel.

Maccabi Haifa's qualification for the Champions League in 2002, far from destroying Israeli football, has raised the bar for everyone, with the result that Israel had two serious candidates for the group stages this season. Ironically, Maccabi Haifa failed to qualify after a narrow defeat to Rosenborg last night, but Maccabi Tel-Aviv will wrap up their place in the group stage against PAOK tonight.

As a fan, it pains me to say this, but the people who aren't facing reality are those who still think that the eircom League, as it stands currently, is worth the proverbial warm pitcher of p*ss. Even winning the thing costs a club more money than it brings in. It's a situation that's not going to sort itself magically, organically, out, it's going to take something spectacular. Namely, an All-Ireland League (I don't see the appeal of this from a footballing point of view myself, but the public will probably eat it up) and qualification for the final stages of the Champions League.

PS: I must admit I'd be fairly amused if the rumours of Depor making a bid for Alan Moore (and Irureta has confirmed his interest) were true, and Shels made a killing. Might wipe the smiles from a few naysaying faces.

Honesty time. When Cork went on their magnificent run in the Intertoto, I thought it was great. I was as envious as hell, and a little bit bitter, because Dolan has waged his own private snide little newspaper war against us, and I hate to see him doing well. However, in general, it was great for the League. Cork fans were naturally delighted with the success, and received many messages of congratulation from across the board.
We in Shels have now had our bit of success [not over yet, btw] and the begrudgery is evident mainly from Cork. Is it because our success has somehow eclipsed their own?
Leaving aside the money thing - and I can understand the fears of other clubs - I've been a League of Ireland fan for well over 20 years, and the amount of ridicule and rubbish I've had to put up with from the Premiership brigade has been unbelievable. I'm sure the same is true for every supporter of league clubs here. The main thrust of the argument is always that Irish football is rubbish. Well, for the first time this season, I've been able to go in and point to Malmo, Nantes, Hajduk, Deportivo and say, well, look, how can Irish football be bad. Surely we have to be on a much higher standard to the English 3rd division they're always comparing us to. Would Millwall have beaten Hajduk? Doubt it. Would Sunderland have held Depor scoreless for a game and a half? Would Leeds have beaten Malmo?
And that's why I'd have thought League fans would be as united behind Shels fans as we were behind them. Because for Cork fans, the real enemy is not $hel$ [as they so whimsically call them], but the Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U, Celtic brigade, who despise this league we all love so much.

Fair points Sheliban, and hard to disagree with any of it.
A couple of points Sheridan. On the one hand, I wanted $hel$ to do well, as I felt that City, who are trying to organise business investment, could point to them and say that with a bit of money invested, City could get to the same position.
On the other hand, you must admit that the amount of money available to eL clubs in Ireland is very small and could never match what would become available to a club who gets to the CL group stages. That money would give a completely disproportionate advantage to that club. It would raise the bar for clubs to aim at, but how would any of them realistically draw level with Shels?
The league may be p*ss poor, but winning it is the only way to get a shot at the CL. If Shels win it every year, how can anyone else get there?

I've used the phrase so many times all ready, but we have a real catch-22, and all the league clubs need to get united and really start working together.

STRATEGY FOR EIRCOM LEAGUE ACCORDING TO SOME CORK CITY SUPPORTERS THREAD

- Generally it would be a bad thing for any club to be successful in Europe(Cork City included) because it would give them the impetus to go on and do something on a European scale for Irish Domestic League Football. Really bad.

Despite the possible knock on bonus it would have for other clubs in the eL for inward investment from outside the country its definitely a bad thing to be successful. Definitely.

- Stagnant is good. Change is bad. The secret to success is to stay as we are. Do not, under any circumstances, qualify for europe proper and we'll all continue to have a great laugh at incorrect aertel scores, dodgy local newspaper columnists and sparse national tv coverage.

- We should continue to leave our best talents go abroad for years to come. At least they might play a "big-gun" every now and again in a FA cup match or something. Far be it from them to strive for Europe with an Eircom League club because that would be bad. Many years from now we can claim their off spring on the grandpaprent rule.

- Encourage low attendances. Big crowds might go to the players heads.

- Hate everyone else.

- Blame Fran Rooney

- Blame www.fai.ie

- Blame the Echo

- Blame the FA and the Premiership successful business models for all that wrong in irish Football

- Blame high barstools, satellite dishes and remote controls

- F%$k Eircom. Why dont we just get Klennex and a miniture violin factory to sponsor the league.

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Originally Posted by blobbyblob

STRATEGY FOR EIRCOM LEAGUE ACCORDING TO SOME CORK CITY SUPPORTERS THREAD

- Generally it would be a bad thing for any club to be successful in Europe(Cork City included) because it would give them the impetus to go on and do something on a European scale for Irish Domestic League Football. Really bad.

Despite the possible knock on bonus it would have for other clubs in the eL for inward investment from outside the country its definitely a bad thing to be successful. Definitely.

- Stagnant is good. Change is bad. The secret to success is to stay as we are. Do not, under any circumstances, qualify for europe proper and we'll all continue to have a great laugh at incorrect aertel scores, dodgy local newspaper columnists and sparse national tv coverage.

- We should continue to leave our best talents go abroad for years to come. At least they might play a "big-gun" every now and again in a FA cup match or something. Far be it from them to strive for Europe with an Eircom League club because that would be bad. Many years from now we can claim their off spring on the grandpaprent rule.

- Encourage low attendances. Big crowds might go to the players heads.

- Hate everyone else.

- Blame Fran Rooney

- Blame www.fai.ie

- Blame the Echo

- Blame the FA and the Premiership successful business models for all that wrong in irish Football

- Blame high barstools, satellite dishes and remote controls

- F%$k Eircom. Why dont we just get Klennex and a miniture violin factory to sponsor the league.

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You learn fast my friend ... you learn fast !! :D :eek:


C'mon man .... you are missing some of the points that are being made, and going over board on others. Do know what you need ..... a happy medium, thats what you're after !! ;)

i would love it if shels made it through to the group phase provided the league was still competitive.shels exploits has raised the profile of the league a lot and fair play to them.however if shels got their 10 million it would enable them to go out of reach from the other clubs in the country.I'm in no way knocking shels or jealous of them i'm just fearfull of the consequences.

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Originally Posted by blobbyblob

STRATEGY FOR EIRCOM LEAGUE ACCORDING TO SOME CORK CITY SUPPORTERS THREAD

- Generally it would be a bad thing for any club to be successful in Europe(Cork City included) because it would give them the impetus to go on and do something on a European scale for Irish Domestic League Football. Really bad.

Despite the possible knock on bonus it would have for other clubs in the eL for inward investment from outside the country its definitely a bad thing to be successful. Definitely.

- Stagnant is good. Change is bad. The secret to success is to stay as we are. Do not, under any circumstances, qualify for europe proper and we'll all continue to have a great laugh at incorrect aertel scores, dodgy local newspaper columnists and sparse national tv coverage.

- We should continue to leave our best talents go abroad for years to come. At least they might play a "big-gun" every now and again in a FA cup match or something. Far be it from them to strive for Europe with an Eircom League club because that would be bad. Many years from now we can claim their off spring on the grandpaprent rule.

- Encourage low attendances. Big crowds might go to the players heads.

- Hate everyone else.

- Blame Fran Rooney

- Blame www.fai.ie

- Blame the Echo

- Blame the FA and the Premiership successful business models for all that wrong in irish Football

- Blame high barstools, satellite dishes and remote controls

- F%$k Eircom. Why dont we just get Klennex and a miniture violin factory to sponsor the league.

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dont you have the first division to be worried about :D

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Originally Posted by thecorner

dont you have the first division to be worried about :D

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That should be " Dont you have the bottom half of the first division to be worried about " :D

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Originally Posted by adamcarr

That should be " Dont you have the bottom half of the first division to be worried about " :D

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Relax lads .... he is allowed give his opinion.

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Originally Posted by A face

Relax lads .... he is allowed give his opinion.

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Yeah but he shouldn't be concerning himself with Premier divison matters! :D

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Originally Posted by Colm

Yeah but he shouldn't be concerning himself with Premier divison matters! :D

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leave that to the big boys

Sure we'll agree to disagree boys. Kilkenny City are going through a period of flux at the moment. Give us a couple of years and we'll be challenging for Europe. Mark my words


http://www.ifgrounds.com/kilkennycity.html

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Originally Posted by blobbyblob

Give us a couple of years and we'll be challenging for Europe. Mark my words


http://www.ifgrounds.com/kilkennycity.html

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the funny season is starting already
:D :D :D :D :D