Appologize if this is a stupid question but the teams in the LOI do not have owners?
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Appologize if this is a stupid question but the teams in the LOI do not have owners?
They all have owners. Some are owned by private individuals (such as St Pat's and Dundalk) and others by fan-owned entities, like Shamrock Rovers and Bohemians. There are probably more fan-run clubs around now than owned by individuals.
I believe that pats got 90k for their progress in Europe the other night.
Delaney's wage is gross and excessive. He wouldn't get that wage in a plc. 200k should be more than enough for head of a football association of a small country that doesn't have a full professional league.
If the fans and ordinary football public had any power in the fai, he would not be in such a wage, particularly in these times.
Miguel Delaney on FAI finances ahead of AGM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...gm-201416.html
It'll be interesting what is reported from the AGM
A bit of a rehash of the 2 pertinent financial points from the last few weeks. JD's salary / Cutting of Club Grants.
Out of interest is the AGM an open public event? - Its not like they have shareholders that I am aware of or is it just media/club representatives etc...
Anyone attending?
I suspect it's only open to Council members - who are effectively the shareholders.
More layoffs in the FAI
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/disappointed-hand-latest-highprofile-casualty-of-fai-costcutting-3174157.html
Quote:
Hand, who had wanted to continue in his role, was informed in April that he was not being offered a contract extension. Instead, the job has been combined with two others -- those of compliance and children's welfare officer -- into just one post.
The new role will be filled by Vincent O'Flaherty, who previously held the compliance position. Former children's officer Michael Lynham has also been let go.
That's insane. Insane carry on.
In any other country...
I thought this was interesting (IRFU despite running a surplus also have stadium debt issues and there's some risk to the H-Cup due to English and French demanding change).
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/r...re-201503.html
It's possibly more pertinent in context of the "where next?" thread, as it shows how even a successful product is at risk from the politics of the club game across Europe. I think it highlights the risk associated with a franchise model especially if it is only in context of a few potentially flighty associations rather than a full European-wide breakaway league.
Being reported JD has taken a 10% pay cut on a few blogs. Not looked for official source as yet just throwing out there.....
the usual "still earning more than Enda Kenny/Barack Obama/<insert random head of state here>" responses are going around too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
All valid thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
hardly constructive though, are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Well trying to run a country (badly?) versus a head of a football organisation where you do sweet fa? So you think he is worth the money then?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Not really. CEOs of comparable sports organisations are the benchmark. Same outcome mind you.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Disagree - everything is comparable esp in these days of bankers, dodgy politicians, CEOs, and over paid footballers. I happen to think that most people should be on similar salaries, but that's my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
so...communism?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Lol, yeah maybe, but no, you know, the value of your work must be appreciated - a fair industrial wage, nurses, doctors, cleaners, etc - I am not an fai cheerleader, unlike some on here, so I do think its obscene that JD gets his huge salary for doing more harm than good to the game in this country. Wouldnt get away with that over here in blighty thats for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soc...320546790.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Quote:
FAI chief executive John Delaney has confirmed that he will take a voluntary 10 per cent pay cut on his €400,000 salary, reducing his wages to €360,000 per annum. Delaney made the announcement at the FAI’s AGM in Letterkenny this afternoon.
Just out of curiosity, who do you think is a fai cheerleader?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Also, you obviously haven't heard of Sir Dave Richards, chairman of the premier league here in blighty (where exec pay in all sectors has gone mad).
Point taken to some degree though. I think executive pay has spiralled out of control in most sectors of economic life. Owners can take what they want out of their own businesses but big owner-run businesses are the exception. Most other businesses or organisations are run on behalf of shareholders or broader stakeholders and the onus is on them to keep executive pay in check. Most have failed miserably to do so. Elected TDs are one of the few sectors where public scrutiny and accountability keep pay in line with sensible bounds. Unfortunately because this lags behind many other sectors talented people are deterred from public service unless they have built up capital beforehand.
In JD 's case, who allows his salary and why? I think nobody denies he's hard working, but that in itself doesn't justify it. That's why I started a FAI Governance thread.
I dont think he is hard working. The state of football in Ireland is a joke and needs a total shake up from top to bottom, now thats a job!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Cheerleaders? Isn't that obvious:D I dont know, maybe he bought a few people on here a couple of pints in Poznan?
Fair enuff about Dave Richards, but I was thinking of national associations - and in any case the EPL is (or at least seems to be) a well run show
The EPL is well run in certain respects but sky does much of the leg work. In many respects such as vetting potential club owners, allowing clubs to overspend, allowing clubs run up huge debts, allowing clubs walk away from their debts to the taxman etc., it's a disaster. The EPL is simply the conduit between Murdoch and the big clubs and in my opinion it's an easy enough job. They have piggy backed on sky's marketing might.
The FA seems to be improving but is only just starting to reform itself having been well below the standard required for many years and having been openly bullied by the EPL since its formation.
I actually think JD is hard working but whether he does a good job or not is a different question. I started the governance thread to ask whether anyone can do a good job with the fai's constitution, or whether he is taking advantage of the fai's constitution for his own ends.
I still think you'd do yourself more favours by naming who you think is a cheerleader. I suspect you think I am but I'd dispute that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I've been thinking about this a bit more since the AGM. No debt was repaid in 2011, it was simply serviced (i.e. Interest Payments only). I suspect the credit facility was renegotiated to reflect the hard times/cashflow issues within the FAI and as a result they pushed back when capital repayments would be made (speculation purely on my part). JD said at the AGM, that capital repayments will start again (when, he didnt say but its entirely possible its not until the increased TV Income filters through from UEFA I think in a couple of years time) and would be fully paid up by 2020.
In the meantime however, interest payments are higher than they should be as the capital balance is not reducing. I read in the Indo that interest costs had increased year on year by over €2.7m!!! - now that might not be a like for like comparison but interest costs in the region of €2m- €5m is massive for an organisation of the size of the FAI. The non repayment of capital and the resultant increase in interest cost, it could be argued has cost 10's of jobs in the FAI
interest paid on the loans last year amounted to €4.8m, more than double the 2010 figure of €2.1m. http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...p-3175345.html
Add to this the complete lack of transparancy with regards the additional debt owed to ticketus. All we know is that its a minimum of €900k but not as much as €19m and the financing costs that go with that and it starts to become very clear even without all the facts that we are up $hit creek without a paddle.......
Obviously that whole point goes hand in hand with the excessive package that JD is on.
JD would do well to get the England Friendlies confirmed as that will be a sellout at both stadiums I expect and could help alleviate the short term cashflow issues...but its a short term measure thats all and certainly doesnt address the needs of the grassroots..........
More job losses / pay cuts for FAI staff imminent.......
FAI staff are bracing themselves for more cutbacks after an email from chief executive John Delaney warning them of tough times ahead due to a reduction in ticket income.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-3179726.html
Unsure whether this guy will be replaced or not, possible job combined with another?.....
another valued member of staff is on the way to pastures new, with U-16 and U-17 manager John Morling set to leave his post and become academy director with Championship side Brighton & Hove Albion. The Englishman was also involved with the Emerging Talent Programme.
An update on the finances associated with St Pats run in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Is it surprising that local tele aren't looking to secure screening rights? The Germans usually pay good bucks for these events
http://shar.es/vXQzJ
Irish Times update since the FAI emailed staff about the difficult times ahead
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...320949215.html
Key bit of the article......
All staff members received an email on Tuesday morning warning of an adverse impact from lower ticketing prices and a number of employees from the technical department, believed to be seven, were summoned to meetings the following day.
They were informed that certain roles were to be amalgamated and those unsuccessful at the upcoming interview stage would be made redundant.
A similar restructuring two weeks ago led to child protection officer Michael Lynam losing his job.
Other staff recently relieved of their duties includes the Republic of Ireland under-17 women’s team manager, Harry Kenny, as well as former senior team boss Eoin Hand, who held the post of player support services manager.
Alan Byrne, team doctor with the senior international squad for the past decade, yesterday informed staff of his intention to end his six-year stay as the FAI medical director from next week.
In tandem, it emerged the manager of the Ireland boys’ under-16 and under-17 teams, John Morling, is leaving the association to assume the role of academy manager at English Championship club Brighton.
While Morling has refused to comment on his departure, it is understood the substantial cutbacks to the emerging talent coaching programme for elite talent, which he also oversees, influenced his decision.
That does not make for good reading.
I was thinking about that over the weekend. What % of the senior players' bonus pool for qualifying for the Euros would have been sufficient to keep those guys in their jobs for a couple of years?
It's nothing short of an absolute disgrace that Delaney is still on 360 grand a year.
The head of the FAI should be paid in and around 100 grand.
As for the manager, Trap is getting way too much at 1.5 million.
Morten Olsen is international manager of Denmark. Additionally to that, his job description includes being in charge of the entire Danish interntional football structure and overseeing youth development. Morten Olsen is on 380 grand a year.
We're paying Trap and Delaney a combined salary of 1.86 million euro to do, between them, less than what Morten Olsen does all by himself.
Cutting back on the youth structure is the absolute last thing that should happen. It's disgusting and a refelection on how Ireland is run on all levels.
We need to get these FAI clowns out the door and replace them with Irish Morten Olsens. That's more important for Irish football than any squad or tactics selection.
I'm thinking about people who live and breath Irish football. Liam Brady, Kevin Moran, Brian Kerr. The FAI needs to be full of these people.
I was about to post a comment saying that Delaney is massively overpaid but we're always going to have to pay a premium for top management. Then I tried to research manager's salaries (which was quite difficult), but I eventually found a list of salaries for managers during World Cup 2010. Here's the list, with Trapp inserted at the relevant position (salaries are in USD, so I converted Trap based on current exchange rates). Decide for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Fabio Capello (England): $9,900,000 (Last 16)
Marcelo Lippi (Italy): $4,100,000 (Bottom of their group)
Javier Aguirre (Mexico): $4,000,000 (Last 16)
Joachim Löw (Germany): $3,300,000 (3rd)
Berter van Marwijk (Netherlands): $2,700,000 (2nd)
Ottmar Hitzfeld (Switzerland): $2,600,000 (3rd in group)
Vicente del Bosque (Spain): $2,200,000 (Champions)
Carlos Queiroz (Portugal): $2,000,000 (Last 16)
Giovanni Trappatoni (Ireland): $1,840,000 (Playoffs)
Pim Verbeek (Australia): $1,820,000 (3rd in group)
Carlos Parreira (South Africa): $1,800,000 (3rd in group)
Dunga (Brazil): $1,250,000 (Quarter final)
Diego Maradona (Argentina): $1,200,000 (Quarter final)
Takeshi Okada (Japan): $1,200,000 (Last 16)
Ricki Herbert (New Zealand): $1,200,000 (3rd in group)
Otto Rehhagel (Greece): $1,150,000 (3rd in group)
Paul Le Guen (Cameroon): $960,000 (Bottom of group)
Marcelo Bielsa (Chile): $850,000 (Last 16)
Vahdi Halilhodzic (Cote d’Ivoire): $740,000 (3rd in group)
Raymond Domenech (France): $720,000 (Bottom of group)
Hun Jung Moo (South Korea): $600,000 (Last 16)
Morten Olsen (Denmark): $570,000 (3rd in group)
Milovan Rajevac (Ghana): $540,000 (Quarter finals)
Bob Bradley (USA): $400,000 (Last 16)
Radomir Antic (Serbia): $447,000 (Bottom of group)
Matjaz Kek (Slovenia): $360,000 (3rd in group)
Gerardo Martino (Paraguay): $360,000 (Quarter finals)
Rabah Saadane (Algeria): $360,000 (Bottom of group)
Reinaldo Rueda (Honduras): $350,000 (Bottom of group)
Vladimir Weiss (Slovakia): $312,000 (Last 16)
Oscar Washington Tabárez (Uruguay): $300,000 (4th)
Kim Jong Hun (North Korea): $250,000 (Bottom of group)
Shaibu Amodu (Nigeria): $180,000 (Bottom of group)
N.B.: Based on the salaries above, Olsen is on closer to €450k than €380k. That may have changed since the World Cup however.
Thanks for that Serb. It would be interesting to see if there are any other outliers paying way in excess for mediocrity and failure to qualify.
Irrelevant I know but surprised Domenech/FFF was so low.
They were on €70k per man (pro-rated depending on how much they featured in qualification) for qualifying for WC2002.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
You may recall they negotiated a reduced bonus package back in January but I don't know if any numbers were ever published.
I'd hazard a guess the bonus pool was in the region of €400-500k. So all those jobs for a couple of years or more.
There was also reportedly a €1m player bonus pool for the championships themselves, though I am assuming ;-) this was never cashed out and the plan was probably always to fund it out of prize money anyway!
Bielsa, Olsen, Tabarez. These are the kind of managers you want. Guys who aren't in it for the money but are in it for the passion of the game or the national pride.
But the problem is, to get a manager like that in, the whole association has to be thinking that way too. You're not going to convince the Irish Morten Olsen to come and manage the Irish team for a competitive wage when the FAI suits are in football to line their own pockets. If the FA doesn't have the right mentality, then the right manager is going to steer well clear of the place. And rightly so.
There has to be a total clearout.
But we've been saying this for decades... Our greatest stumbling block to success is our own FA. Our country is run by gombeen men at all levels, including the football.
Daniel McDonnell with confirmation of the 10% pay cuts applied to FAI staff and also a Pension freeze (temporary measure 18months so JD says.)
6 Jobs gone too.
Unfortunately, its messing about with the scraps and ignoring the elephant in the room - the two biggest earners in the FAI (JD and Trap). Not sure what the cost cutting measures will save the FAI on an annual basis - Maybe €0.5m??? Just guessing here. A €100k cut to JD's wage and €250k to Traps would deal with the matter a lot more efficiently, morally, equitably and with much less disruption to the organisation and gain the same end result.
Trap needs to step up here I think - gaining one point in the euros would have had the same net impact in prize money (from memory).
The writings on the wall here. No Debt will be repaid until the TV money kicks in, so €4m-€5m of interest costs for the next 2 years - Meanwhile, FAI will not make any Net Surplus in their accounts for investment or debt repayment without the additional TV money. Two years is a long time in football, Who knows how the international game will evolve over that period and if the tv deal will be worth what they think it will be worth now. All the eggs in one basket........
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...#disqus_thread
Definitely, but with businessmen (inept businessmen at that) instead of football men at the helm that's never going to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Arguably, yes, but a top manager - whether it works out or not - is at least a justifiable expense.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Exactly: cuts in education as we head deeper and deeper into the economic sh!t and cuts in youth development as we see ourselve increasingly losing touch with Europe's top table.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
How is the FAI even run? Who controls it at the most basic level? Is there any actual instrument for change apart from easily-ignored protests or praying the top dogs get involved in horrific accidents?Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Certainly puts Delaneys pathetic token gesture in it's rightful place. Rather than leading the way with his pay cut, he's taking less of hit than the FAI plebs!Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
That's why I set up the "Governance of the FAI" thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by ped_ped
I think it kind of answers the first part of your post too - the FAI is run largely by football men rather than astute businessmen. Unfortunately some of the main football men are set in their outdated ways and not all the football men are united in their goals.
Seems to be a lot of unrest at the FAI. John could take a bit more of a pay cut to show a bit of empathy with the employees. I hardly think his pay cut will affect his day to day living.
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-3189609.html
This has been posted up on YBIG, this is apparently in todays Star, though it doesnt appear on their online version (first time I have been on that site and its a bit naff tbh).
Would seem a bizarre course of action to take by the FAI blaming media coverage of possible SIPTU action as reasons to make the supposedly temporary measures permanent?
Also its interesting to note that they quote FAI Debt now at the €69m mark. Previously the stadium debt has always been the quoted number at €50m, the additional €19m I suspect is working capital/ticketus related but as yet the FAI have yet to publish their 2011 Annual Review Online to see any more information (I've emailed them to ask when it will be available but as yet had no response).
Quote:
THE FAI last night upped the ante in their battle with SIPTU by circulating an email to staff informing them a 10 per cent would now be permanent.
CEO John Delaney last week informed employees that the cut was only for an 18-month period.
SIPTU, which represents over half of the 156 workers in the FAI, issued a statement on Friday flatly rejecting the proposal and insisted the matter was being referred to the Labour Relations commission for resolution.
However, in a circular to staff late last night by Operations Director Stephen Driver, staff were told the intervention of SIPTU has hardened their attitude.
It read: “Following a meeting of the Board of Management, we are writing to you in relation to the required cost saving measures approved by the Board of Management and as outlined to you by the CEO and the Executive Management Team at a recent staff briefing and communication.
“The implementation of these measures is critical in ensuring the sustainability of the Association over the coming 18 months.
“When deciding what measures to take, the Association did so in the best interests of maintaining jobs at the scale and level proposed and its core business in developing the game in Ireland.
“The Board of Management are very concerned about the recent media reports and the contents of same. Comments in the media made by SIPTU to date are not at all helpful to this process, especially given the fact that the Association had not received any formal communication from SIPTU prior to the media reports being published.
“The media reports fuelled by SIPTU over the weekend may very well have a negative impact on our future revenue streams through our funding partners, existing and potential sponsors and ticket sales which will in turn further diminish our ability to sustain our headcount and salary levels.
“The measures we had intended to implement were to be temporary in nature for an intended period of 18 months.
“However, the adverse effect of these actions by SIPTU has affected our ability to maintain these measures as temporary and are therefore now permanent.
“The measures that have been communicated to you were bottom line measures. As we have already indicated the consequences of not achieving our cost saving targets through what has been presented will have a spiralling impact on job positions across the Association.
“To ensure job security for you and your fellow employees, in this context we are seeking your agreement for these measures.”
Staff are understood to be fuming that Delaney has only taken the same 10 per cent cut as is being asked of them. His salary still stands at €360,000.
Latest accounts for the FAI from 2011 show that the association has taken bank and other loans of €69 million.
Delaney has admitted not a cent had been paid of capital had been paid off the €50million mortgage on the stadium. Interest payments alone during 2011 stood at €4.8million.
Astonishing absence of leadership, echoing the behaviour of Fianna Fail a few years back. It's amazing these people would rather hang on to a few extra euro rather than be seen as a fair and honest leader.