the IRFU own the land so did anyone expect them to just hand over part ownership without a sizeable FAI payment?
the stadium will have to be built in less than 60 years from now anyway
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the IRFU own the land so did anyone expect them to just hand over part ownership without a sizeable FAI payment?
the stadium will have to be built in less than 60 years from now anyway
Lads, any chance this can be taken to the FAI Finances thread?
Could the mods move post #25 onwards to that thread?
I'd like to keep this thread kept to discussion of how the FAI is managed and overseen, rather than discussing the merits / demerits of a particular decision that was made. This thread may die a death or may build up into a body of evidence that can be used to offer constructive advice at a later date.
As I see it, the stadium debt discussion could be discussed here if what we were examining was how the decision was made, at what level was it discussed at Board, did Council ratify it, were the Board memberssufficiently financially experienced to make such a big decision and whether there was any mechanism in place to challenge the view of the Hon Treasurer / CEO or whoever ran with the project etc.
This could be good for the game if it occured. I would love to see someone like Kevin Moran take over- a football background, a good communicator and a reasonably successful businessman too. However, let's be honest the suits look after their own!
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...320886420.html
Out of interest, I wonder how much time JD needs to devote to his role as 2nd VP of the OCI. The comment below says it doesnt cost the FAI a penny, perhaps in monetary terms but do we lose x number of man days a year because of OCI distractions?
Is the OCI 2nd VP a paid role?
Is our CEO a Full Time member of staff?:eek:
“He is fully entitled to be there. Willy O’Brien is utilising it at the moment and then John Delaney comes over. It is entirely within the IOC regulations and it does not cost the FAI a penny. The IOC pays for it. My stay here is also paid for by the IOC.
He could be taking his own holidays from the fAI.
Remember the Euros was work....
Great work if you can get it.....:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
http://cdn.independent.ie/multimedia...s_1068540t.jpg
Yes. I buy kitchen utensils, tv, bits of furniture etc for my home, I even change the lightbulbs. All things I can take with me after I leave (except maybe the lightbulbs). I woudn't dream of painting the place, changing carpets etc. That's the landlords job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Anyway, my point is this, the IRFU have gotten a great deal out of this. They get their stadium re built at the FAIs expense and they still own the gaff. All they have to do is put up with them for the next 60 years. I really think a more permanent ownership of the ground for the FAI would be a better deal.
Football in this country is hopeless when it comes to real estate compared to the other associations. Look at how many good stadiums the GAA has. They are not called the Grab All Assoc for nothing. Rugby has the aviva and thomond and many other smaller venues. I really think the FAI should own more football real estate in this country to protect football here. Rent is dead money.
How many stadiums do we own? The MFA own TX, which you could argue is under FAI control. I think Terryland is owned by the Galway FA. I think the FAI own United Park in Drogheda. Thats it. All other grounds are owned by badly run football clubs that are at risk of being liquidated if the club folds (which is highly likely in the LOI). Edit: And the state of some of these grounds is appalling.
Its not a healthy situation IMO.
What if you knew you'd be living there for the next 60 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Why though? What are they going to do, sell it?Quote:
Anyway, my point is this, the IRFU have gotten a great deal out of this. They get their stadium re built at the FAIs expense and they still own the gaff. All they have to do is put up with them for the next 60 years. I really think a more permanent ownership of the ground for the FAI would be a better deal.
This deal was made at the heigth of the property boom. The FAI could have borrowed twice as much money they can't afford to pay back to get a permanent share in land at a vastly-inflated price. Had they done that, they'd now be selling the land for half of what they paid to fund their negative equity or, worse, they'd be declaring bankruptcy.
Buying things you can't afford is moronic. The FAI is a moronic organisation. Let's be thankful they'd somehow arrived at the right decision in spite of themselves.
They don't pay rent. They part-own the stadium for the next 55+ years. I'd love for the FAI to own more top-class stadiums, but buying a small plot of land with zero expansion potential in one of the most expensive parts of the country is a bad idea at any time, let alone the height of one the world's largest ever property bubbles.Quote:
Football in this country is hopeless when it comes to real estate compared to the other associations. Look at how many good stadiums the GAA has. They are not called the Grab All Assoc for nothing. Rugby has the aviva and thomond and many other smaller venues. I really think the FAI should own more football real estate in this country to protect football here. Rent is dead money.
That's a result of their mismanagement of the league though, not a lack of shrewdness in the property market. Thomond exists because there are 27,000 people willing to file into it 10 times a year and all the sponsorship money that comes with it. The LOI is an absolute hole, so we get Terryland.Quote:
How many stadiums do we own? The MFA own TX, which you could argue is under FAI control. I think Terryland is owned by the Galway FA. I think the FAI own United Park in Drogheda. Thats it. All other grounds are owned by badly run football clubs that are at risk of being liquidated if the club folds (which is highly likely in the LOI). Edit: And the state of some of these grounds is appalling.
Its not a healthy situation IMO.
FAI Finances thread anyone?
Now that I'm back in the land of the living I'll indulge ya.
I thought this might fit in this thread - Irish Times commenting on FAI 'influence' in their independent club licdensing process.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...324534441.html
Quote:
A LETTER from the FAI’s chief executive, John Delaney, and its president, Paddy McCaul, addressed to Independent Licensing Committee chairman Derek Dee in which they suggest the committee should have attached conditions to the granting of Limerick’s licence to participate in the league this year appears to severely undermine the association’s repeated claims regarding the integrity of a process it has always steadfastly insisted it did not interfere with.
...
The letter alleges a number of previous threats by O’Sullivan to withdraw his support for the club and take a legal action against the association’s bank and says Delaney and McCaul “believe that information on both of these issues may not have been presented sufficiently strongly at the decision meeting in February”.
It goes on to suggest the decision not to reapply the sanction: “causes the association some difficulty as there is concern among the board that, given the history of Mr O’Sullivan’s relationship with the association, there is a real and continuing risk that he may follow through on his threat to withdraw support from the club mid-season”.
This, it is pointed out, would likely to lead to the club’s collapse “resulting in major embarrassment and calling in to question of the league, the licensing process and ultimately the association. “The board,” the letter concludes, “would like the committee to take this into account when dealing with Limerick FC in future”.
I was going to contradict you, but realised as I was posting that you actually said the opposite to what I picked up the first time I read it. Here are the relevant articles from this year's rulebook in any case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
As far as I know and if I remember correctly, Eamon Naughton was the vice-chairman for 2 years, when Paddy McCaul was elected chairman of the newly established NLEC in 2007.Quote:
Football Association of Ireland Rules effective from 27th September 2013
COMPOSITION OF THE FAI NATIONAL LEAGUE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
1. The Chairperson who shall be elected at the participant Clubs’ Annual Convention.
2. The Vice-Chairperson who shall be elected at the participant Clubs’ Annual Convention.
3. The Chief Executive Officer.
4. a) One member who shall be elected by Council at its opening meeting and who shall not be an active member of any of the National League clubs.
b) Nominations from members of Council for election must be in the hands of the Chief Executive Officer no less than five days in advance of the Council meeting in question.
The official FAI nomination form must be signed by the candidate stating their willingness to serve on such Committee.
Council members of the National League clubs are not entitled to nominate or vote.
Such nominees shall be formally proposed and seconded at the said Council meeting. In the case of an equality of votes between two or more candidates, a further vote shall be held and if that fails to produce a result, the result shall be determined by the drawing of lots.
The member elected by Council shall take up their position on 1st January and serve a term of two Calendar years.
5. Two External Specialists to be co-opted by the Committee at its opening meeting and approved by the Board.
Naughton was then elected chairman himself in 2009. He will have been in the position 6 years when his current term is up at the end of next year. The Participation Agreement (the 2011 one anyway) states that there is no term limit.
Naughton served as a delegate for Galway United before being elected NLEC vice-chair. He was opposed by John Croghan (Athlone I think) in the last election. Won by a single vote.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...mp-273142.html
It looks like the FAI insiders want to continue their comfy tenure.
I was at a conference yesterday dealing with corruption in sporting bodies, with a lot of attention on FIFA as you'd expect. In the afternoon one of the panels contained a lady from UK Sport (their equivalent of the ISC) who will only hand out government money if they feel a NGB meets a desired standard of governance. She described a 60+ item checklist and questionnaire that must be completed as well as qualitative tests. They operate a red, amber, green system to flag areas of concern etc etc.
I was tempted to ask from the floor if, in her opinion, a NGB of a serious sport paid its CEO 3x more than the CEO of the world champion's equivalent, had no independent directors, has gone 3 years without a question from the floor at its AGM and now wants to vote to extend the tenure of its officers beyond 75 years, it would flag any governance concerns.
The ISC seems happy enough though. They dish out our government's dosh.
Sure it's grand. Nothing to see here. Reading that makes it feel like we've been transported back to the wonderful Tiger Days.
SFAI get a seat on the FAI board for first time in years
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...rd-284102.html
I'll also post on the youth development thread for discussion.
Kind of related
http://www.sportbusinesscentre.com/e...ure-prospects/
I thought this was interesting
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-football.html
Basically saying reform of the SFA such as including Supporters Direct and media in the Council has coincided with improvements.
Very flattering article but at the same time there is other comment on the web saying this article is totally revisionist etc.
However, it's interesting in light of our supporters' grievances with JD etc.
For the record i have no issue with the song. My question is did the Dutch courage go on the FAI credit card?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXybPPyp3zo
Is it true that Clones just got a 200k grant and funnily enough their pitch is called John Delaney Park? Also true that Michael Ring's home town club got a similar grant, their second such grant in recent years? The govt gave the FAI the money, FAI decided where it went. None of the clubs applied for it.
I'd question his judgment given ongoing tense relations with the IFA and all that goes with the player poaching row, and especially in light of the type of visitor we might expect from England in June.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
Typical Dublin attitude :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Though true about Clones being called JD park. However, Clones Town have been developing their plans practically for pitch and clubhouse for 10 years now, have been hoovering up grants and whatnot along the way and JD has been a big source of support for them, for years. If Dublin based FAI buffoons do so readily fall for a bit of corny flattery then Clones Town have pulled off a neat stroke.
They already have a very good top standard pitch along with a smaller pitch right beside and will use this glorious windfall (Hallelujah.....Praise JD) to build dressing rooms. They are now in line to expand the club to cater for some 150 local kids to participate actively in teams.
That's the usual sensible type of response I expect of you.
Still, it'd be interesting to learn how the FAI decided where the money should go and whether giving money to the Irish town that brought speckly suits, black slip-ons and white socks to the mass world in 1985 instead of, say, funding 200 more UEFA licensed coaches.
I don't go for this either or argument. A new football stadium instead of 3 hospitals argument, I would want it all.
I don't know why Clones would get the money ahead of another club and if it has managed it solely by being so corny, it does lower certain bars of integrity to blatant political patronage levels. The central issue is that there is far too little public funding made available for essential sporting infrastructure.
Also Stutts look at it another way, if in a town the size of Clones there are currently 40 or 50 kids involved in the soccer club, no own pitch until 5 or 6 years ago and now able to carry out plans to build dressing rooms, showers, but no club house per se like the GAA clubhouse in the town.
Now there's facilities to take on another 100 kids, but you already have the cream in the 50, the extra hundred are your average fluff but will provide income to fund coaching that the better young players will benefit from and the club can expand facilities later with the increased membership base. There are 3 or 4 clubs in the county and this is the best one. But all are a light year behind the outreach and social heart that the GAA clubs have in the county.
I suppose there are a few hundred similar stories around the country. The soccer club is there and the GAA club is there and the soccer club is spartan by comparison. The foundation for development in the small towns has also to be stronger in order to expand a network of licensed coaching. FAI elite coaches is just one part of the equation. The Clones club can now run coaching courses which should not only be self financing but provide an extra source of income. It's the funding of the senior players is where money goes.
It's funny Stutts how this thread was started in the middle of Euro2012 which was essentially our last "successful" period.
At that stage it was considered bitter to criticise but we all know why we did it.
It was like that time Bertie asked those who thought the country's economy was overheating and asked them to commit suicide.
That's what the situation this week with Delaney reminds me of. A big fat FF uckup.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...W23_hc.twitter
Exactly what I've been shouting about on Twitter to my 105 followers!
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-37295168.html
Dan McDonnell's thoughts on this matter.
Seems like Geysir has been a JD fan all along as he's been a big supporter of Monaghan footy :)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I was only thinking about this again this week. FAI's oversight by Sport Ireland (then the Irish Sports Council) is part of a flawed overall national sports governance infrastructure in this country. The dogs on the street could have predicted this week's events and Mark Tighe's revelations imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Yes, fair point. I was wondering if John Treacy's annoyed demeanour stemmed from the possibility that he too could now be in serious trouble for not doing the proper checks and balances on the FAI.
Brendan Menton's take on things including cristicism of Sport Ireland, criticism we offered earlier in this thread.
Longer version of that here: https://medium.com/@menton.brendan/r...oCnG30aWOmJsBEQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Interesting views and certainly a man with experience both with the FAI and working with FIFA.
How culpable was Menton for the various issues that dogged the FAI pre-Delaney? I'd say he was significantly involved as Hon. Sec.
We need a proper CEO who is removed from the clique of the Irish football circles, or without the baggage of the FAI.
I'd certainly agree that the new board and particularly the CEO should largely come from outside the current circles and that includes those previously involved. There seems to be some practical and sensible suggestions from Menton all the same. Particularly the idea of approaching FIFA with regard to the temporary board structure to give time for proper reform to take place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
I wonder is there a bit of a con-job possible here with Menton though? I'm trying hard to recall, but I thought he was relatively well-thought of, but lost out in the collateral damage post-Saipan, perhaps without doing anything actually wrong.
However I'm wondering if something is brought to the attention of FIFA now (officially), does it give FIFA the latitude to interfere and limit the possibilities for Sport Ireland/Dept of Sport to steer the direction of the new board, hence giving the FAI cronies the possibility of getting back in and preventing real reform.
that's a reasonable worry but i believe its all gone too far for the current board to have a way back. having given the football community a taste that the current board is gone a reversal wouldn't be accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
its incredible that our interim CEO hasn't had a word to say for herself over the last 4 weeks. the association she is supposed to be leading, albeit on an interim basis, has received one kicking after after another without a single word from its CEO
jbyrne some would argue that the same cronies are going to be elected, even if they are different to the current board.
after a bit of a recent lull things heating up again for the FAI....
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-38075981.html
Good stuff. No "I've made my statement" bull**** in the High Court.
Good news, was all gone a bit quiet there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne