What's the future direction for the league with 19 clubs?

I just feel until the league as it stands is sorted out then any new teams are doomed.

The league needs to be attractive enough that if a new club came into it people in that particular area would want to go down and see their local team competing and might bring their crowds up. For example if Tralee Dynamos came into the league and were playing SD Galway then it's not exactly going to get the locals interested in going but if they were to come in and have a Munster derby against Cork or a successful limerick in an already decent league then they have a better chance of getting the ball rolling.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

Are FC Carlow still an option? They got as far as provisionally applying or sommething last time didn't they?

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I Think they pulled out after Fai said they would have to play home games in Buckley Park Killkenny. Its hard to see Carlow or Tralee applying for next year as if they still had an interest they surely would have remained in U19 league

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Originally Posted by Jofspring

I just feel until the league as it stands is sorted out then any new teams are doomed.

The league needs to be attractive enough that if a new club came into it people in that particular area would want to go down and see their local team competing and might bring their crowds up. For example if Tralee Dynamos came into the league and were playing SD Galway then it's not exactly going to get the locals interested in going but if they were to come in and have a Munster derby against Cork or a successful limerick in an already decent league then they have a better chance of getting the ball rolling.

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Agreed. But it's a real chicken and egg situation there too as it's hard for the league to appear attractive when it sheds clubs so often.

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Originally Posted by Trainee

I Think they pulled out after Fai said they would have to play home games in Buckley Park Killkenny. Its hard to see Carlow or Tralee applying for next year as if they still had an interest they surely would have remained in U19 league

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That was my assumption too. It's an indictment of the game in this country but there's not many real options in terms of potential clubs.

I think the U19 league has shown what can be done going forward. Single tier top division and a regional league below it. It is hard for the league to appear attractive. I can only see any potential clubs coming in under a regional set-up. I imagine established clubs in the first division will not be in favour of that?

Dundalk will be fine to see out the season, already this week the DFC Trust have donated 4k, also a host of other active fund raisers going ahead, including at bottom end (but still important) pub quizes & charity games, to the Chelsea XI game in August, and also the comedy night, headlined by Ardal O'Hanlon in Crowne Plaza (him and others giving time free, an amazing gesture), so a nice programme of events building, and at last performances and attendances on the rise, all added will see us safely end the season.

As for 2013 ?? Who knows, but a solid take over (2 bids reportably in so far as the end of July deadline looms), for the club to prosper beyond 2013, the right takeeover needs to take place, with full fans and local support.

My view forward for the LOI, a 18 team PD, with a regional North/South FD, top two possibly either promoted or at least into play off final, and a strong think of returning to winter, or adjusted summer season. Could start on 1st Sept w/e, miss out Jan, and end in late May. Thus missing out on the holiday season (when crowds go down, but clubs still fit to play in europe as season just ended in late May)

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

What is their support base like? Do they have one?

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They won't be applying. They only applied in the first place because they thought the First Division was going to be regionalised this year. When they counted the cost of expenses, they decided against entering the league.

As for support base, they'd get no more than 100 people a game. A parish club in the middle of nowhere essentially. Their ground is more secluded than Salthill's Drom.

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Originally Posted by legendz

I think the U19 league has shown what can be done going forward. Single tier top division and a regional league below it. It is hard for the league to appear attractive. I can only see any potential clubs coming in under a regional set-up. I imagine established clubs in the first division will not be in favour of that?

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This..

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Originally Posted by oriel

My view forward for the LOI, a 18 team PD, with a regional North/South FD, top two possibly either promoted or at least into play off final, and a strong think of returning to winter, or adjusted summer season. Could start on 1st Sept w/e, miss out Jan, and end in late May. Thus missing out on the holiday season (when crowds go down, but clubs still fit to play in europe as season just ended in late May)

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..and this.

I believe for some reason the FAI are testing the waters with the under 19 league. I have some sort of view of the league becoming a 16/18 team premier with two 8/10 team regional divisions below it. For this obviously there would have to be more clubs, but I think the idea of a regional division would appeal much more to the likes of Carlow, Fanad, Letterkenny, Tralee, Cobh, et all, to build up and not have too much travel involved.

For me, it's the only way forward at this stage. But, the big thing is, the option simply has to be there every season for the winners of the LSL, USL and MSL and a Connaught team to enter the league each season via a play-off. They don't have to take it, but the option should be there for them.

There will never be enough clubs in First Div to even consider regionalising it. Anything less than 8 teams in a group would mean the First Div season would be too short and everyone would loose interest very quickly.

It would be very hard regionalise the First Division if you had an 18 team Premier Division, you'd need another 20 clubs to have two even divisions below the Prem. 14 teams in the Premier would be ideal, but the amount of games would be impractical (3 rounds gives 39 which is too much, 2 rounds give 26 which is too little).

My own perference is for a 16 team single tier League of Ireland, the reintroduction of a reserve league (regionalised) that also includes some of newer clubs that are building themselves up.

I'd prefer to see the summer season stay as it puts less difficulties on maintaining pitches and should help the top clubs in Europe when the league gets stronger.

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Originally Posted by Trainee

There will never be enough clubs in First Div to even consider regionalising it. Anything less than 8 teams in a group would mean the First Div season would be too short and everyone would loose interest very quickly.

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Agreed. At best I can only see two groups of 8 below a Premier of 12. In recent years I thought it was a possibility if Castlebar and Tullamore had stayed on board. I'm not sure they'd have withdrawn from the last A Championship had a regional first division been on the cards. If ye take Fanad, Castlebar, Tullamore, GUST, Cobh, Carlow and Tralee. These are 7 potential clubs that could've been lined up for a regional first division this season, 1 short of being able to form two groups of 8. Now again it has to be stressed, will first division clubs be open to the idea of a regionalised first division? My understanding is the idea was mooted but rejected. Following Monaghan's withdrawal and uncertainty on the number of clubs in Galway, an opportunity has been lost for the regionalised second tier to come in.

I don't understand how people think a single-tier league of Ireland is a such a fantastic idea. Anyone outside of the running for European places will have massive drop offs in crowds. No threat of relegation would have a terrible effect on crowds. Like who the hell would care if a team was say 2 points off 15th place with 2 games left. There has to be relegation and a single-tier division is just too many teams.

There aren't going to be enough teams around in the next few years to have anything other than a laughable second tier anyway tbh.

Cut to the bone amateur/reserve regional leagues is the way to go imo.

I came up with an incredibly complicated, drawn out, league of Ireland system while bored at home a few weeks back, I'll try throw up the jist of it tonight for people to poke holes in.

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Originally Posted by gufcfan

No threat of relegation would have a terrible effect on crowds.

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Did the threat of relegation pack 'em in in Terryland last year.

It never has in Oriel Park.

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Originally Posted by White Horse

Did the threat of relegation pack 'em in in Terryland last year.

It never has in Oriel Park.

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Ya we got 1400 at the play-off against Monaghan.

Previous years saw big crowds for games against the likes of Bray, Finn Harps, Longford etc. 600 GUFC heads also went to Belfield in 2008 on the last night of the season. You mean to tell me that 600 people would have gone to Belfield if there was nothing at stake?

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Originally Posted by gufc2000

Ya we got 1400 at the play-off against Monaghan.

Previous years saw big crowds for games against the likes of Bray, Finn Harps, Longford etc. 600 GUFC heads also went to Belfield in 2008 on the last night of the season. You mean to tell me that 600 people would have gone to Belfield if there was nothing at stake?

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So what's better about sitting mid-table in the first division with nothing to play for?

At least in a single division you'll be playing the top teams who will bring bigger away crowds.

I don't know about you, but I'd prefer the scenario of, a hypothetical 18 team league of Ireland, where Harps are sitting 16th place nothing to play for, a game against Sligo, who are challenging for honours, who will bring 200+ fans to Ballybofey which will generate more interest in the game locally too, rather than, another typical First Division season where we're sitting mid-table, playing Wexford Youths, where a total of 5 fans come up and 400 locals.

See the difference?

It's a hard topic to discuss when there's no hard proof of where the next club(s) are going to come from. At the moment the first division is heading in the direction of a 7 team division.

Are there any leagues in Europe with a single tier division? In other sports you can look at the Pro 12 in rugby but they've brought in play-offs. Maybe the FAI will take a leaf out of their books with a rename to Premier 12 and play-offs etc!

Without getting an answer, I sense established first division clubs will not accept a regional second tier? Where does the league go from here? How many clubs were awarded a Premier licence for 2012? If licencing is ever to become credible in the top tier there has to be a standard. Without trying to magic up clubs I listed 7 earlier who could have joined a second tier. Now I can well be wrong but I think a second tier of that nature would be more appealing for more clubs to feed into the league.

Getting back to hard facts anyway and where we are, has there been any word on the process for clubs to join the league next year?

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Originally Posted by ahmcd

Possible 2013 teams:


Cobh could also be returning to the league. That puts the total at 18 teams. The Premier will probably remain with 12 teams. If Dundalk get a license, it will be 19 teams. The FAI would surely have to add another team. Maybe Tralee, or if they solve the Galway problem, they probably create another one in Donegal with Fanad of Letterkenny like the U19 league. They couldn't have a 6 team First Division though tbh, I wouldn't be surprised.

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If more then one Galway club's isn't working what makes you think more then one Donegal club will?

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Originally Posted by Neish

If more then one Galway club's isn't working what makes you think more then one Donegal club will?

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Because neither of the Galway clubs has any fans and the one that actually had fans was run into the ground by a board of idiots.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Because neither of the Galway clubs has any fans and the one that actually had fans was run into the ground by a board of idiots.

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And the 2 other Donegal sides do?

Is there a third that has considered applying to the League? Harps have had their problems but if run correctly they won't go under like Galway. If Fanad have a sensible business plan and find a way to attract crowds, they could well co-exist with Harps (and Derry).

Letterkenny Rovers have stated their new stand (holds just over 200) was built with the intentions of getting into the LOI.

Fanad are in the middle of nowhere. Crowds of around 200 would be as high as it would get for them id say.

Ah, I wasn't aware of Letterkenny Rovers. That sounds like more of a long-term project. Clubs can and do exist on attendances lower that that, and sure if they're struggling they can borrow a counter from Galway. People are right to be concerned about attendances but as long as the club is governed correctly, it can exist on low crowds in the first division, though they probably won't be clamouring for promotion.

The problem is, low crowds have a knock on effect.

Low crowds mean sponsors won't be keen on handing over hard earned money to somewhere his sponsorship won't be seen.

There's a hell of alot of money required to run a club in LOI and that's not even including wages.

Besides, Fanad were scared off when they saw what kind of figures are required to run a club for the year.

A knock-on effect from what, though? The absolute minimum requirement for a club entering the LOI would be to lowball their crowd projections. I know realism is a foreign concept to the people in charge of football in this country, but some clubs seem capable of it. I know a lot of money is required and the FAI should really be doing everything to make the barriers as low as possible, but if they can find a way to budget prudently and still put out a team then they should be applauded. I think the barriers would be a bit smaller for Fanad because, unlike a lot of other junior sides, they already operate an expensive stadium so the jump up to league status wouldn't be as huge.

expensive stadium?? Umm, Finn Park is Camp Nou compared to Triagh Locha.

Basic costs are roughly €100k for a season in the 1st Div. That's alot of money for any Junior club.

Ever been to Fanad CD?

No, I'm sure it's nothing on Finn Park but it's still their own ground and they are able to pay for maintenance themselves, so jumping up to league status wouldn't be as big a bridge as it might be for other clubs. It's still going to be a struggle for any team to survive in the league but I think other clubs would face higher obstacles entering the league.

Any league that requires you to pay more to enter the league than the amount of prize money you can get if you finish in a certain position is codding itself. Sure some teams are losing money straightaway if that's the case.

Isn't it something like €19k to enter the league?

Anyone have the full list of prize money for the different positions available?

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Originally Posted by gufc2000

Any league that requires you to pay more to enter the league than the amount of prize money you can get if you finish in a certain position is codding itself. Sure some teams are losing money straightaway if that's the case.

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I'd actually be in favour of this in theory if twas done properly, especially if you ended up with a one tier league.

Adds a small bit of jeopardy to stop teams throwing their hat at it mid season and acting the ******.

It will be an 18 team single division next year with the new Galway-GUST club invited to join. Salthill and Mervue will pull out.

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Originally Posted by Partizan

It will be an 18 team single division next year with the new Galway-GUST club invited to join. Salthill and Mervue will pull out.

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happy days we can stop complaining now :)

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Originally Posted by Partizan

It will be an 18 team single division next year with the new Galway-GUST club invited to join. Salthill and Mervue will pull out.

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I'd like to see them both row in behind GUST as well

Is there really any legitmate chance of a three-way merger or is that just pie in the sky? Everyone seemed pretty resistant to that idea before the season started.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Is there really any legitmate chance of a three-way merger or is that just pie in the sky? Everyone seemed pretty resistant to that idea before the season started.

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Can we shoot them all and start a new club gustsdgmug it sounds catchy

Galway FC would probably do.

It seems like SD Galway missed an opportunity when they could have rebranded as Galway Disunited.

Just don't call it GUST,that name blows !!