Caroline, me trousers is burst.
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Caroline, me trousers is burst.
You repeatedly slam the rte panel on here - yet bizarrely you continue to watch them - in fact you must have watched the piece last night repeatedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Weather you agree with the panel or not - all they offer is an opinion - weather they are right ar wrong is irrelevant - you'd swear these three were misleading the public on important issues ffs.
Let it go! there's a weath of podcasts,articles, and forums where you can get informed reliable analysis. You are flogging a dead horse slating the rte panel. They are there because they are popular - weather you or I like them or not.
Owls has the complete right to express his opinions on the rte panel, he doesn't start these threads but once the thread has started ..... he cannot resist. RTE is a public service broadcaster and the window to the national team for the bulk of the population. Other media outlets are not public service.
I find Owls' analysis original :D and a refreshing contrast to the status quo public service censorious propaganda and self assumed/appointed role as the authority on Irish football. Just because they are popular does not mean they are removed from observations and perceptions about their hypocrisy, bias, agendas, and of late their p'iss poor shoddy attempt to present the acclaimed alternatives available to what Trap selected for the squad.
Dunphy should never have had to ask Brady if there was anything coming through.
Qualification for the next World Cup in the Americas so. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Trust me, I did not watch that piece repeatedly. I watched it once live with a couple of football friends and who laughed with me at the selective clippings and nonsense that was spouted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
I think who manages our team is an important issue and to quote your own phrase ffs. I also think it is not right that the national broadcaster should launch campaigns to attack the national managers from Hand through to Trappatoni. The trouble has always been that Giles has a philosophy of football and Dunphy has bowed to it. Thus there was never a debate as such as Laughing Bill took everything they say as gospel and then starts spouting it himself. I thought Darragh Maloney was good last night chairing the debate as he put forward contrary arguments for a change. But of course it ended with another anti-Trap poll should he remain on as manager? Why not have a poll such as has Laughing Bill ever been at a football match outside of the studio, is Giles too old for his job, is Dunphy's head so far up Giles' ar@e that it's suffering from collitis? Mind you I was surprised that as many as 30% said Trap should stay despite having heard the manager being torn to shreds.
Interesting little cameo at the end. Dunphy slated England and said they has no chance. Giles said he wasn't too sure and perhaps with the luck they have been having they were in with a chance and politely suggested that to Dunphy. Cue Dunphy to retreat hidden behind laughter.
I watch it Real Ale like I also watch Coronation Street (wife makes me) which is also hugely popular. For the farce element.
But Dunphy is there purely for the farce element, you say it as if watching him for the car crash farcical comments aren't the only reason he's on television. Its why everyone watches him, I've never met someone who took him seriously.
In terms of football, yes its important, - but they are not giving out irresponsible financial advice for example. I think you have lost perspective on the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I think rest of your post is contrived nonsense, but 2 more points:
You never mention Brady above - who was staunch in his defence of Trapatoni the day after the Spanish game.
Those Polls should not be taken seriously - 75% of people thought we would get a result in the Spanish game. Was it a legitimate question to ask ? Well after 3 defeats and a goal difference of -8, even if you don't agree - surely it was a legitimate question to ask and not the source of some hidden agenda.
I think using phrases like "Laughing Bill" take away greatly from the point you're making.
You're slagging them for acting amateurishly, and throw in a childish insult.
It's a football programme. Are we not allowed discuss it and the views it puts forward and in the context of football who manages the football team is very important to me. It fact it is as important as some some financial programme giving out financial advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
I did actually mention Brady in a previous post and yes he did staunchly defend Trap both on and off air apparently. I was away in Poznan for most of it but I was informed of it. Apparently he said to Dunphy at the start when the latter predicted we would get to the next round that he was only praising the Irish team so he could have a go at Trap when the team didn't perform to expectations. I have waited years for something like that on the Panel although Souness has in the past been excellent.
The agenda is not "hidden". It has been there for over 3 years and back to the Charlton etc eras. God knows Bill (not Laughing) said at the end of the Paris debacle that we were to "Rejoice" because we had played a different brand of football despite the devastation of losing out because of the handball. Madness!! Could you imagine in your wildest dreams (nightmares), the host of any TV show saying a nation should rejoice because a team had played well and yet had been knocked out of the world cup by a handball goal. The bias against Trap had got to him so much that he thought that this was a matter to rejoice at.
I think we know where the contrived nonsense comes from.
No, the Polls themselves are not to be taken seriously but the agenda behind the questions are.
At least we're out now and I can relax and just watch the anti-English and anti-Ronaldo show that will now take the place of the anti-Trap show.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
So you criticise me when I question the mentality of supporters who sing the Fields of Athery in the midst of a thrashing on another thread, yet Laughing Bill can't rejoice when we play good football!
As Giles would say : "nonsense, Absolute nonsense there Bill. Can we get back to talking about the football and taking each game as it comes there please?"
What's happened to Souness by the way? Thought he was excellent on RTE.
Souness was excellent. I do miss him.
He stopped being on air as a result of some rape comment he made during a match.
This needs to be clarified though.
Was that the Vidic/Torres one? If that's the reason, it's ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Souness was a great pundit (sh!te manager but knew what he was on about). Some of his arguments with Dunphy were comical. As much as Dunphy entertains me, he talks a lot of rubbish and Souness was always willing to call him on it. To be fair, Brady does that role quite well too.
Possibly. I don't recall.
It may simply as well that he doesn't want to anymore.
When the four were on together there was nothing like it. Wonderful punditry. The likes of which only the bbc and itv could dream about.
Bit of a contradiction there? You admit they're popular but deny they're misleading the public? Or were you emphasising the "important issues" (issues more important than football?) part?Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
What's contradictory ? I was just making the point that they give opinions and there wasn't a need for Owls to dislike them, as at the end of day that's all they have is thier own opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I don't really watch them much but you can't deny they are popular - they have been doing the same thing for decades at this stage. If they weren't popular they would be gone.
By being popular, they surely influence public opinion with what often happens to be misleading information, no?
Yes they influence public opinion - but surely misleading information is strong? It's opinion ; neither right or wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Maybe so, although I thought Dunphy's run-through of "solution players" the other evening could be construed as misleading.
Misleading in what way?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I viewed it as players he thought should be in the team in August. Was it not presented as such?
OwlsFan has already outlined why the segment was so bizarre in an earlier post of his, but I'll add to it. Bill asked, "Have we made the best of our pool of players available to us?" and stated that what irritated Dunphy more than anything else was that so many players he felt should have been involved were left at home. Dunphy confirmed his irritation and whilst he was certainly arguing that the players mentioned should be used in future, he also used the segment to attack Trap's tournament squad selection by discussing players that were justifiably not in the squad due to injury (Fahey), personal circumstances (McCarthy) or questionable ability in comparison to those already filling their recognised positions (Clark, Coleman, Pilkington). He even mentioned players that Trap had included in the squad or has utilised frequently in the past (McClean, Fahey). Brady further claimed these players "weren't integrated". What a load of nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Still not sure how someone's wrong opinion can be deemed misleading. Newspapers carry opinion pieces everyday with incorrect information. This information itself can be misleading - but are the rte panel deliberately misleading the public ?
The segment you refer to was populist BS from Dunphy - egged on by Bill who proclaimed Eamonn as being very passionate. But I'm not sure it was premeditated or motivated by anything other then thier own opinions.
Aww come on. That package of clips didn't put itself together and trick the producer into shouting run V.T.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
What the hell are you on about? don't isolate the first part of the sentence without reading the rest of it. What's wrong with you ?Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
The segment was put together to highlight players who should be involved in Dunphyland. It wasn't a premeditated attack on Trapatoni - it was an opininon piece!
I completely agree with the first half of the sentence. It was a load of populist bull. But it was also a blistering attack on Trap. Surely the fact that the clips were prepared and ready to go makes it obvious that the whole thing was planned in advance. He even thanked the production assistant who edited the clips together for him.
Look we can agree to disagree. It was planned of course but after the spanish game id imagine - they hardly had it ready since day 1 - ready to stike down the Itialian as soon as we slipped up. If they had it ready the night of the Croatian game then I could agree that it was a premeditated attack on the manager, but not after the Spanish game. The game was up then and the focus was starting to shift to the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
And criticism of the players that he has picked can hardly be construed as a blistering attack on him either.
We only disagree on the meaning of the word pre-meditated it seems. For me putting it together after the Spain game is still pre-meditated. The honest thing to do would have been to show it before the Italy game and look like fools if we won and ended the tournament in a reasonably respectable position. But like cowards they waited until the game was over.
Where was Dunphy banging on about Hoolahan before the tournament. Between November and June he was one of the cheerleaders telling us that we have good players. During the tournament the system and style and system were letting us down. And now the players he was building up 3 weeks ago were never good enough and it's all Trap fault for picking them.
He did little else but criticise Whelan and Andrews in qualifying. After the last game against Armenia they went off air before all the groups were settled, and Bosnia were winning in Paris, meaning France would need a play-off and we wouldn't be seeded. He was scathing about Trap, and about the players not being good enough. Whelan and Andrews can't pass the ball and all the usual crap. By half time in the next game we were a goal up away from home in a playoff we had been seeded for, and Andrews had got the goal. Dunphy dropped his agenda, probably fearing a repeat of the world of pain he got himself into during Italia 90.
Dunphy doesn't like this coaches methods, regardless of the results he gets, and will use any opportunity to attack him. He only dropped it when he absolutely had to and that ill-formed package of clips was 8 months of pent up frustration being released. The man is a worm.
Not sure if I agree with your first paragraph - we were out of the tournament regardless of how we got on against Italy, so for me its irrelevant when the segment aired. THe point of it was the same re. players sitting at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
Totally agree with the rest of your post - but as I said at the start of this - all they offer is an opinion - right or wrong. And I don't understand the constant whining about them. Although I do on reflection accept that people are entitled to have a go at them on here. I just think its pointless, thats all - they ain't gonna change.
Are the Irish public really not able to think for themselves? I think they appreciate that the Irish panel is far less banal than the UK panels but equally that there's a fair bit of hype and self-publicity going on.
I do tend to agree that there is always too much of an anti-manager slant, but that has been the same around the whole media, not just TV, since Kerr if not earlier.
Sorry to repeat an earlier remark, but what irked me most was Dunphy having to ask Brady if there's anything coming through the ranks. Anyone with a good interest in Irsih football should know this through the various channels of info available. Is Dunphy really alienated from the likes of Noel King for example, who he could just call for research? He could do worse than to go on here just for background.
Really good point. I read a piece in the last World Cup re the BBC and their pundit's failure to research the teams they were covering. RTE's boys are as bad, particularly Giles. They're being paid to do the work and yet they do very little research on the teams before the games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I think Giles has a wonderful football brain (Brady too and Dunphy does have a decent brain behind the sensationalist guff). Giles can dissect a game and articulate what he sees very well. He can take players that he's barely seen play and give a good evaluation of them. And that's great at half time or full time but it does irk me that sometimes, before a game, the panel can offer very little insight. It's their job - I wouldn't walk into mine completely unprepared coz I'd expect a kick in the nuts if I did.
And t'wod be the lads here lining up to do the kicking :)Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
Bring it on :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Tell me though, what does Giles do other than tug on his jacket, say: "the game is all about getting the ball down and playing", "I am not advocating that we take a risk when playing" , "I agree with Eamon", "goals change games Bill", "I hope I am not repeating myself" ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
It's just called venting. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
That's because football is a simple game the way Giles understands it and he's right imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
The problem sometimes is Bill's questioning which can be very childish. If you check out Giles on Off The Ball he is asked better questions and is therefore much better to listen to.
The man is unequalled as a pundit imo.
Agree totally. Small example but you hear people peddle rubbish like "We scored too early" and people accept is as valid. I heard Giles pull Bill on it before and said you can't score too early. If an early goal has meant you've sat back and defended then it's not the scoring early that was the problem, it's the reaction to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
Other stuff as well like a team being one down launching it into the opponents box towards the end of the game. Giles' philosophy on it is that if it's right to pass the ball for 87 minutes then it's still right to pass it from 87-90 mins. Small thing but IMO, he's right where as the default attitude is to panic and punt the ball into your tallest player and pray for a break.
Another example from the other night was "I'm not asking people to hold possession for possession's sake but if you have the ball you pass forward. If you can't go forward, go sideways. If you can't go sideways, then go back." It's simple but it's a very uncomplicated articulation of something that most people don't understand.
He breaks the game down into very simple and uncomplicated philosophies while other people try to complicate it with systems, formations and tactics. Not saying they don't play a part but if you can't pass the ball, no system can turn you into a winner.
It could be worse. You could have the BBC with Lineker and his s**t puns or ITV with Southgate and Adrian 'no personality' Chiles.
I like having presenters and panelists who have an opinion and are not afraid to say what they think. I might not always agree with it but it's better than coming out with the same banalties week in week out (take a bow Hansen and Shearer).
I've said it before, what Giles does better than any other pundit I know of is that, after watching three minutes of footage in the build up to any incident (goal, booking, pass, whatever) he can tell you exactly what went right or wrong, and what should have been done instead
Best example I can give is from the last world cup when Germany broke through to score against England. I was convinced that it was simply down to Barry not being as fast as the Geman midfield, but Giles pointed out that immediately before Germany intercepted a pass, Glen Johnson had pushed forward to receive the ball from a throw in from Terry, and if he had stayed in position, then he would have been able to come across and cut out the danger before it developed into anything.
Not they can compare the same thing. I'm always amazed like you, when I assume one thing happened and a pundit points out something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
It's the expert eye that Giles and his ilk have that sees these things. That's why we aren't world class ex-players or pundits.
Ken Early once said something telling on OTB one evening, he was commentating on an EPL match and Kenny Cunningham was his co-commentator, an incident occurred (I can't remember what) and he said he had formed his own idea of what happened and Kenny said that this, that and the other happened. Early couldn't believe it, he had seen nothing of what Kenny had said until after he watched the highlights later.
This is a common theme on memory and expertise. Cunningham has it. Giles has it. We don't.
Cunny Kennigham seems to know his stuff he has his eyes on a place on the panel.
I like Didi. Apres match do him well also