Irish team for the Spain Match

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I thought Ward did fine.

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I have just been looking at the Ward pass which went astray and in a way lead to the second goal.
First time I looked at it I put it down to a Ward mistake but having seen it again a dew time I have changed my view.
Firstly negative pay all round, the ball was played to McGeady but instead of attacking he passed it back to Whelan,
he could have played it to Keane or Doyle, both unmarked. Whelan then plays it (again backwards) to Ward when he
too could have played it to either Keane or Doyle both unmarked and in acres of space.
Ward seems to have twigged 'the plan' now (pass it towards your own goal). He too could have played a ball up
to Keane or Doyle, who appear to be in acres of space (can only see the area covered by the camera).
(By the way the Croats seem to have figured there is no point in marking Keane or Doyle because nobody passes to
them anyway!).
So Ward plays a back pass to Whelan who seems slightly asleep or slow to react, the Croats gain possession, a corner and a goal.

So what is the point of Keane and Doyle being up front if nobody passes to them.

OK so Keane or Doyle might have lost the ball, but it is far better to lose it in the oppositions final third than your own,
hell they might even have gone on and scored a goal!!!

Negativity is the key, we had settled for a draw at half time and thus go in a goal down.

If I can make a clip of it I might put it on youtube, however it is the passage of play from 41.28ish to 41:45 on the official clock.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'm surprised nobody has suggested Hunt in the centre yet.

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Originally Posted by legendz

Has he played there much? As I say, possibly 3 players could interchange in that role but can't see Trap adopting that approach.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I can't see a reason from our last 2 games, for O'Shea to play anywhere on thursday (apart from CM of course).

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Originally Posted by legendz

I've seen him play full-back for Sunderland and have not been impressed. He has no distribution at all. I actually would agree that if he was to play anywhere, it'd be slotting in as an extra midfielder but again, can't see it happening. He's done alright CB under O'Neill as well but no place there.

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Legendz, there's a 'slight' possibility Charlie was being sarcastic about Hunt for CM and a stronger than slight possibility that I was being sarcastic about O'Shea for CM.

On a serious note, O'Shea is not match sharp and is showing it in spades.

Just back from Poznan.

Duff is beyond criticism in my opinion, he was the only guy who actually seemed comfortable on the ball all night. Of the back 5 I thought Ward was nervous, JOS and Dunne off the pace, Shay sluggish and only St. Ledger was firing on all cylinders from the go.

McGeady was just awful I thought, always waiting for the ball to arrive and getting off from a standing start and then doing sod all.

On the basis of what I saw on Sunday:

------------Shay ----------
Kelly -- Dunne -- SSL -- O'Shea
---------Whelan--------
Duff--Gibson--Andrews--McClean
---------Walters--------

I like that team Stutts. It's what I went for.

Keane can come back for the Italy game.

However the Trap will remain loyal and hope they repay him by having the games of their lives.

RTE reports (training match spy) suggest Kelly is inline to replace O'Shea and Keane to play with Wally.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

I like that team Stutts. It's what I went for.

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Not guilty of plagiarism, honest! I didn't have time to catch up on the earlier posts.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Not guilty of p[agiarism, honest! I didn't have time to catch up on the earlier posts.

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Sounds like the only change is Walters for Doyle. Sigh.

3 central midfielders plugging the gaps and forcing the Spanish out wide would seem the sensible thing to do....

Lee Carsley:

Ireland need a high-tempo strategy to throw the gauntlet down to classy Spain

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...zrgieo.twitter

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

I hate to say this b/c Duff is a great guy but he is way past his prime. Just invisible out there.
Spain must be licking their chops.

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Are you mad, he was the only one playing football and was Ireland's MOTM by far.

Trap left him play the whole 90 minutes because he was our best player.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Sounds like the only change is Walters for Doyle. Sigh.

3 central midfielders plugging the gaps and forcing the Spanish out wide would seem the sensible thing to do....

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Yep. Xavi, Iniesta and Xabi Alonso are going to slice through Andrews and Whelan.

Could end up being very embarassing.

Hope not of course.

But you look at how Paraguay and Swtizerland - small countries like ourselves - got under Spain's skin and it was by choking the midfield. We seem to have misinterpreted "choking the midfield" as "choking in midfield".

Even Jack understood this when he went 4-5-1 against the Italians in Giants Stadium.

Against the Italians that time we hadn't we virtually no fit forwards?

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Originally Posted by brine3

We seem to have misinterpreted "choking the midfield" as "choking in midfield".

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We will have to interpret "choking the midfield" as; "choking the midfielders" if we are to have any chance I fear.

I suggest to everyone if they can go back and watch the game again. Tricky colour points out exactly what happened for their second goal. We should never have gone back into our shell after scoring. Blaming McGeady (who made the goal and almost sent in an identical ball for Ward soon after) is wide of the mark. He was being double marked and was not receiving the ball back from Whelan. McGeady would pass back to Whelan expecting a ball back that never came. Whelan would turn 180 and play it back to a nervous defense.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

I suggest to everyone if they can go back and watch the game again. Tricky colour points out exactly what happened for their second goal. We should never have gone back into our shell after scoring. Blaming McGeady (who made the goal and almost sent in an identical ball for Ward soon after) is wide of the mark. He was being double marked and was not receiving the ball back from Whelan. McGeady would pass back to Whelan expecting a ball back that never came. Whelan would turn 180 and play it back to a nervous defense.

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We shouldn't have gone back into our shell but after the shaky start and getting a goal back, Croatia were turning the screw a bit before half-time, we could've done with going in level at half-time.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Against the Italians that time we hadn't we virtually no fit forwards?

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The tactic worked though. I believe we need to play 5 in midfield against spain with a forward with some pace and ideally the ability to hold up the ball .

Long ? Walters ? Keane ?

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

He was being double marked and was not receiving the ball back from Whelan. McGeady would pass back to Whelan expecting a ball back that never came. Whelan would turn 180 and play it back to a nervous defense.

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This is it, Bilic did his homework. Double mark Duff and McGeady and don't worry about any Irish threat from the centre of midfield.

If we had done our homework we'd have had an extra midfielder to double mark Modric.

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Originally Posted by brine3

This is it, Bilic did his homework. Double mark Duff and McGeady and don't worry about any Irish threat from the centre of midfield.

If we had done our homework we'd have had an extra midfielder to double mark Modric.

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That was it and we had nothing to offer. Whelan seemed to have some belief before the game that he'd outplayed Modric before and that he would do so again. When Croatia were on top, Modric picked up a needless booking for clattering into Whelan in the second half, seemed to be some form or retribution.

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

The team which cheated the most won. If the CRoats had any decency they woudl agree to a replay.

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Can we be the 9th team in the quarters?

Spain are not going to play a cautious game so as far as I'm concerned the players (or at least those who can think for themselves) should only partially follow what Trap tells them. We are going to have to somehow score a goal/goals to get anything from this game. And that means having a real go from the off. I believe we will start with the same team that started on Sunday. I would have dropped Given and Whelan but Trap won't. The two of them scare the bejasus out of me after Sundays game. On the plus side we scored a really well worked goal against Croatia and that gives me some hope. What gives me more hope is the way we played for about 10 mins before our goal and about 5 mins after our goal. I don't believe the Spanish will double up on McGeady and Duff which should help us. I didn't think Keane and Doyle played that badly on Sunday so understand if they start again. But I can't see anyway we won't concede a goal. None. We only had one corner on Sunday which tells its own story. We have to give our front players whoever they end up being some type of service. That means O'Shea and Ward pushing up when able. That means no Cox on the left when/if we have to chase the game. It means taking off those contributing zilch and replacing them with better players rather than sticking with the 'system' or going route one. If we try for parking the bus it won't work.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

I suggest to everyone if they can go back and watch the game again. Tricky colour points out exactly what happened for their second goal. We should never have gone back into our shell after scoring. Blaming McGeady (who made the goal and almost sent in an identical ball for Ward soon after) is wide of the mark. He was being double marked and was not receiving the ball back from Whelan. McGeady would pass back to Whelan expecting a ball back that never came. Whelan would turn 180 and play it back to a nervous defense.

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I am not blaming McGeady exclusively (blame is the wrong word anyway), it just looked to me that Keane and Doyle were available for a pass, they may not have had as much space as appeared from the camera shot, but none the less, surely it is better to have a go maybe lose the ball in their final 3rd, rather than ours. His was one of three back passes after all. I think I can safely say Croatia never strung three back passes together!!
Point is we say our back four and central midfield are not the best in the world so it seems sensible not to have them constantly under pressure?
Having said that I do not think we were that bad, ( on another day with things going our way we would have won!!) I don't want to sound over critical, I just think we could be more positive.
Why not make a pass to Doyle, he would more than likely get pushed over and get a free kick?
We seemed to want to settle for a draw at half time and ended up going in a goal down.

Actually I don't like to criticise any of the players because I know they are all trying hard, just try to make a positive
criticism to be more positive in the game, we are better going forward than sitting back. But obviously easier said than done at times lol.

I'm still optimistic!!

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

I am not blaming McGeady exclusively (blame is the wrong word anyway), it just looked to me that Keane and Doyle were available for a pass, they may not have had as much space as appeared from the camera shot, but none the less, surely it is better to have a go maybe lose the ball in their final 3rd, rather than ours. His was one of three back passes after all. I think I can safely say Croatia never strung three back passes together!!
Point is we say our back four and central midfield are not the best in the world so it seems sensible not to have them constantly under pressure?
Having said that I do not think we were that bad, ( on another day with things going our way we would have won!!) I don't want to sound over critical, I just think we could be more positive.
Why not make a pass to Doyle, he would more than likely get pushed over and get a free kick?
We seemed to want to settle for a draw at half time and ended up going in a goal down.

Actually I don't like to criticise any of the players because I know they are all trying hard, just try to make a positive
criticism to be more positive in the game, we are better going forward than sitting back. But obviously easier said than done at times lol.

I'm still optimistic!!

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Look at how Spain play on Thursday. Their players will constantly play one-twos with the intention of opening up some space. McGeady is passing back to Whelan with the expectation that he can draw his marker out of position and find some space for Whelan to pass to him. However, because of Whelan's own limitations or Trap's unambitious style, he doesn't look for the pass. This is why players used to more technically competent teammates often don't succeed in international football. It's the same reason Ronaldo looks crap for Portugal when he is clearly the best player on the pitch.

You didn't see any back passes from me when I was playing, I'd lump it straight up the field, seemed to work quite well.
Got a bit of a breather before it came back too!!
Was not an aimless lump either, either I'd try and pick out a player or even a group of players, it's 50/50 your team will gain
possession. Make a mistake in their final 1/3 and 9 time-out of 10 (or more)nothing will come of it.
Make a mistake in your final 1/3 and it's about 50/50 you will concede.
We should do to Italy and Spain what Croatia did to us, pressurise them when they have the ball and they will make mistakes.
Easier said than done I know, but if we sit back too much we will get caught out anyway.
I think people think teams like Spain and Barcelona play a great passing game but they work very hard on winning the ball back.
If you watch them you notice they do give the ball away a fair bit but close down the lost ball so quick they soon have it back again.
They are as alert to the missed pass as the completed one.

Is a long ball really 50/50 if there are more defenders than attackers. And some defenders are better at dealing with different situations. One trick ponies can be easily coralled(?).

Kevin Doyle hasn't really had a great game for us in a while. Walters always seems to spice things up when he comes on. Wouldn't be surprised to see Walters in for Doyle tomorrow. Other than that (and any fitness issues), we don't really have great options on the bench; can't see too many changes.

Looks like its Walters in for Doyle and Kelly in for O'Shea.

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Originally Posted by ChrisRed

Looks like its Walters in for Doyle and Kelly in for O'Shea.

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I'd prefer a fit O'Shea but he definitely wasn't fully fit on Sunday and Kelly has done ok when called upon, reasonably decent season with Fulham too.

I think you'll find that is pure media speculation. Walters might replace Doyle but I can't see Trap dropping O'Shea. Nobody has mentioned Green coming into midfield which is a possibilty. But I still feel he will select the exact same eleven that started Sunday evening.

Not Green! Jaysus! Anyone but Green!

But yeah you could be right Noelys Guitar, we may well see the same 11, give them a chance to redeem themselves after Sunday

My mate just range me to say Trap is saying nothing, unusually for him.

Wasn't the line-up Geysir reported yesterday simply because they played Dubs (& Donegal) versus Culchies, explaining Kelly's start in the better XI (which lost!)?

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Look at how Spain play on Thursday. Their players will constantly play one-twos with the intention of opening up some space. McGeady is passing back to Whelan with the expectation that he can draw his marker out of position and find some space for Whelan to pass to him. However, because of Whelan's own limitations or Trap's unambitious style, he doesn't look for the pass. This is why players used to more technically competent teammates often don't succeed in international football. It's the same reason Ronaldo looks crap for Portugal when he is clearly the best player on the pitch.

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Whelan looked utterly spent after about 35 mins. He was standing in the center circle with his hands on his hips and looked shattered in the first half. You could see the steam on his breath as he was really wheezing. He's only 28 but in Poznan he seemed to have the stamina of a 38 year old. Andrews (who I thought had a decent game) was having to do a lot of the running and it was him, not Whelan, who seemed to be prepared to get forward.

No team announcement today it seems.

Trap will make anything up to 3 changes.
"Today, I need to see my players in the training (later this evening), but sure, I don’t change four or five players.”

I think we have to go with one up front against spain. Its a toss up between Long and Wally. But I would start with Long for his pace and hustling, then bring on Walters to kick lumps out of them with 25 to go.

I'd play Robbie in centre mid role with a duty to support breaks. He is our best player at keeping possesion along with Duff. We need to try and keep it for as long as possible to relieve the defense. Gibson is also in for this reason. Theres no point in having Whelan grannying around after iniesta and all .

I'd want our wingers more advanced than they normally are, with Hunt or Mclean ready to step in when called. This is our best chance of a breakthrough. By stretching Spain using our width we might knick a goal or more likely a setpiece in a good position which is our main chance of scoring.

Full back is a big problem area, we need to keep possesion here more, but theres not much that can be changed at present.

I just hope it doesn't end up like the Russia matches from qualifying

---------------Given
O'Shea----Sledge---Dunne----Ward
-----Gibson--Andrews--Keane
McGeady---------------------Duff
---------------Long

Robbie as the lone striker is getting mentioned on twitter.

Sounds like a great plan...lump it long to the midget!

Given
Kelly St. Ledger Dunne Ward
McGeady Whelan Andrews Duff (on his natural left foot)
Keane Walters

You are joking...

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

You are joking...

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Swap O'Shea for Kelly and I think that's the team we'll go with.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Yep. Xavi, Iniesta and Xabi Alonso are going to slice through Andrews and Whelan.

Could end up being very embarassing.

Hope not of course.

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Agree - in fact I can barely recall a game over the last 18 months where this midfield have been superior to the opposition. We really have qualified in spite of our CM - even Armenia were able to outplay us in the middle of the park.

Something very different is required in midfield.

Ireland v Spain Match History.
Probably the longest post I'll ever write. 5,050 words.
http://greenscene.me/2012/06/ireland...match-history/

Strange to think the 3 officials for tomorrows game are from Portugal. Not happy with that. No way would Eufa have 3 officials from the UK doing our matches. The pitch for tomorrows game might actually suit us. It looked uneven and very slow for the Spain v Italy game and the Spanish are not happy with it. Glad Trap has not named the team yet and it will be very interesting to see who he picks and the tactics used. If we get at least a point tomorrow for me it will go down as the greatest result we have ever achieved. I'm talking better than 3-0 v Soviets, 1-0 v England, 1-0 v Italy and even 1-0 v Holland due to the squad we have available and the strength of the opposition who are proven winners. There has not been a huge shock yet in these championships. Denmark had won their qualifying group comfortably so beating a Dutch team on the way down was a good result but not a huge shock. So hopefully tomorrow night we will get the result we need which will allow us to build for Mondays game with a real chance of getting into the quarter finals.

A draw would be an epic result for us. Can't see it happening. 2-0 to Spain with them slowing he game to a crawl for the last 30 minutes. I think Walters will start.