Didnt see that one coming. Kjaer was magnificent in defence, but my god the Dutch didnt have their shooting boots on. Hardly deserved the peno, probably would have missed it anyway.
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Didnt see that one coming. Kjaer was magnificent in defence, but my god the Dutch didnt have their shooting boots on. Hardly deserved the peno, probably would have missed it anyway.
Yeah, they didn't deserve to get the draw by virtue of a last minute penalty.
Germany flattering to deceive again. Lucky not to be a goal down.
They've been the best footballing team for the past two tournaments, what on earth are you on about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Got a nice nap during Germany Portugal. Thought it was boring as sh**.
Jeez Germany didnt look good at all - maybe this tournament can be won by any team?
I thought the game was intriguing. I don't know why Portugal persisted with caution and not playing their natural attacking game.
Ozil was so knackered, he barely made it to the dugout when he was substituted.
I noticed that about Ozil alright. Scheinstegger(?) covers a lot of ground as well (according to the commentators stats). The germans do work hard when they are playing for their country (Angela will be happy)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Re; Portugal, When you have two players like Ronaldo and Nani then you have to be prepared to have a go. They will have to in the next game now.
What about Group D? I only saw last the 15 of FRA v ENG but I enjoyed UKR v SWE.
At HT in the second game the BBC pundits were smugly proclaiming that ENG had nothing to fear from those other two teams. England would have nothing to fear playing a pumped up Ukraine away in front of a mad crowd? I actually thought both teams played good stuff and there could have been more goals in it. England played well without the ball, but didn't look too good on it.
OK, so it seems to be theme in the last year or so that well set-up teams are able to nullify the more fluent passing teams, and are well capable of nicking results.
So, is this the end of the brief dominance of tika taka and what will be tweaked by the better passing teams to get back on top of the spiolers?
I just don't like the way Spain, Barcelona, France etc. play without a proper number 9, someone to attack the ball in the box and who can hold it up. OK, Bayern had one but he had a shocker against Chelsea.
Yep, that's what I'm thinking now.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
So much can be read into the first games. I suppose with the wait, they are built up to the nth degree. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out in the second series, possibly the moving series to use a golf term.
Just not England, Greece, Spain or Portugal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I presuming you're going Polska today Stutts?
Germany have had a perfect qualification campaign and trounced the Netherlands back in november. They had a respectable performance but not dominant against Portugal and were left hanging on desperately at the end for the win. Hummel had an outstanding game at the back. Germany are now playing against good teams who stand back. Instead of Portugal going toe to toe with them, Germany have to break them down as well as protect from the threat of the counter attack and they try to do this playing good football as distinct from their old physical approach.
I think their midfield has become more impressive than WC2010, even with Schweinsteiger carrying an injury. That midfield are equally good in both defensive role and offensive role.
The Dutch are now under the serious pressure and Germany will want to avoid a pressure games against the Danes.
But still Ireland? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
I dunno, though the waitress who serves us breakfast yesterday has painted an indelibile positive image of the country in my brain. A couple of interesting if not hugely glamourous games tonight.
Polska Bialo Czerwony.
There are a bunch of articles from reputable papers and sites floating around today about how the International game is relatively awful, compared to club level, and is basically just really bad football being played by tired players just for the sake of fans rooting for one country or another..... thoughts?
I realize the press just focuses on certain things at times, and England only had one shot on net yesterday, etc... but is International football generally really awful and plodding as some in the press seem resigned to thinking? Maybe it is just taking this tournament a round to get going.
No is my answer.
And anyway, what more do you need to make a tournament interesting than fancied teams like Holland losing, spain playing italy, Russia beting the Czechs 4-1, Poland and Greece playing a thriller. I really enjoyed SWE v UKR last night.
Context is everything in appreciating sport. If you don't get the context then go off and get your instant gratification elsewhere. (Irish footy fans seem to love the context of a major finals but aren't that pushed about the context of playing Armenia to get there).
I think the standard was quite high in some games so far, despite what highly paid pundits will tell you.
International football is different to club football in the satellite TV age. Club football is largely now about which clubs camn attract the richest benefactor but in international football your national system is what is really put to the test. This is far more interesting to me.
Spending unsustainably for ostentatious gain is what caused Ireland's economic crisis. The same might happen soon to some of football's more ostentatious clubs or to those that have to spend to keep up - not that too many care about that, unfortunately.
Some attempt to address this question here in today's Guardian website. Jon Wilson is the guy who wrote Inverting the Pyramid I think. In the comments Barry Glendenning contrasts John Giles and Arrigo Sacchi's views on football, while Wilson responds that a Giles v Sacchi live debate would be a dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Come on Greece today.. :)
Club football (LOI) for the head and international for the heart. I think the tournament is fine so far, some good games, thought last nights game was a cracker.
An assist there for Samaras.
In that context, what the papers that Crosser was referring to are effectively saying is that football is only worth watching if you follow a big team in a big 4 league. International football gives fans in countries like Ireland a chance to be at the glamorous party on occasion rather than reading about it in Hello! magazine. Long may it thrive.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Poland giving a good example of how to put it right up to the more fancied team. Cracking game.
Super game, great context, great atmosphere, great commitment, great delivery for the first goal (iffy finish) and super goal from Poland. ITV pundits enjoyed it but were harsh on the overall standard which I thought was technically good. Some central midfielders on that pitch can carry the ball at pace better than our wingers and full backs. Some great hard tackling too and none of the dangerous lungy cr@p the EPL holds so dear. I love watching eastern Europeans play football.
Interesting Article
Giovanni Trapattoni's Tactics Have Taken Ireland as Far as They Can
Watching Ireland lose 3-1 to Croatia on Sunday was really quite depressing. Not merely because of the defeat, but because of the manner of the defeat.
Ireland looked like a prehistoric side, totally bereft of ideas and guile, with only one speed and one game plan. The effort was there and along with some bad luck, but the thing that struck me was how terrible Ireland were with the ball. At times, it was embarrassing.
Giovanni Trapattoni's tactics have gotten Ireland to the group stage and he has done a fantastic job to qualify, but that's not enough.
First and foremost, I am a football fan, and, I want to see some ambition in my team. I want to see the team try and pass the ball.
Ireland, under Trap, refuse to do this. He doesn't want the team to get the ball down and play. Against Croatia, it was embarrassing to see how limited Ireland were on the ball. Time and time again, they passed it back to their fullbacks who aimlessly hoofed the ball long up the pitch and straight back to the Croats.
The lack of movement of the Irish team was telling. No one showed for the ball in midfield, as if the idea of showing for a pass was pointless, as they knew it would be lumped up the field. It was brutal to watch.
Trapattoni's selection of Green, Whelan and Andrews—whilst leaving out the likes of McCarthy, Coleman, Houlihan—sums up his ambition or lack thereof. He doesn't want players who can play. Trap just wants workhorses in midfield, and then hopes our front players will nick a goal.
What does this say to the kids in Ireland who want to become professional footballers?
Ireland should be encouraging passing football; promoting skill and technique, and not fearing the ball. The midfield should have technical players in it who can control the tempo of the game.
The Football Association of Ireland need to make a complete overhaul of the Irish setup, and they need to get all the Irish club sides and school youth teams involved. Ireland should take a look at FC Barcelona's La Masia, and try to get Irish clubs to incorporate their coaching techniques into their youth system.
Ireland should pick a formation (personally, I'd go for the 4-3-3), and get all the youth teams to agree to use this. We need to ban long balls from the youth system and stick to passing it short at all times (including the goalkeeper).
We shouldn't worry about the scores in youth football, and instead focus on promoting passing and technique. We should also incorporate "El Rondo" ("the round" possession technique) in all youth setups.
No Irish players should be afraid of getting the ball, as was so evident against Croatia. Ireland need to be brave on the ball. I do not believe for a second that Ireland cannot produce technical players. We can and we have. The problem is that we don't encourage them.
Ireland don't like players to take risks or to keep the ball. They panic and want them to "get it up the field," and a lot of youth coaches are to blame for this.
Look at Athletic Bilbao as a example. They are like a mini-international side who will only sign Basque players and, therefore, have a small pool of players to pick from. Look at how technical they all are and how well they play.
Why is this? It's simply down to their youth setup and their philosophy on the game.
Ireland need to change their philosophy on the game as a nation, and it has to start from the bottom up. They are miles behind most teams in terms of their style of play, and its time to catch up.
The FAI need to send people to Spain and Holland and look at the setup there. Learn from the masters, apply it and stick with it as a long-term plan.
Trapattoni's tactics have taken Ireland to the Euros and it is a great achievement, but I fear for Ireland against Italy and especially Spain.
Ireland looked utterly clueless against Croatia. Imagine what the Spaniards could do to them.
Hopefully, the FAI learn from this tournament and Ireland can finally move on from this long-ball football for good.
Everything suggested there is basically what the FAI has been doing for the past 2-3 years, with the national team the only exceptional.
That's not a grey area; that's handball.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
In the context of that discussion and in the context of that phrase i used, I think it is pretty clear that I was referring to a penalty being awarded for handball.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
That there are plenty of grey areas whether a handball in the penalty area is considered a penalty or not.
Bit unfair to accuse Trap of having left McCarthy out.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
It's incorrect to say Trap left McCarthy out, but would Trap have used him as anything other than a crisis back up option?
I don't believe he would, the fact we may not even see Gibson bears this out surely.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Permutations (I think):
Regardless of any other group results:
Ireland out unless we get 4 points. End of.
But other results come into play:
If we beat Spain and draw with Italy, we can only go out if Italy beats Croatia, but even then we would still go through if Spain beats Croatia in round 3.
If we draw with Spain and beat Italy we go through in 7 of the other 9 combinations of results and in every outcome if Italy beats Croatia tomorrow.
If we draw with Spain and beat Italy, we go can only go out if Spain beats Croatia and Croatia gets something from Italy.
Put another way:
If we get 4 points, regardless of how we get them, only 2 out of 9 other remaining outcomes see us go out, although which 2 are dependent on how we get our 4 points.
If we assume we are more likely to get 4 points by beating Italy, we would prefer Italy to beat Croatia before we play Spain.
Originally Posted by mark12345
Trapattoni's selection of Green, Whelan and Andrews—whilst leaving out the likes of McCarthy, Coleman, Houlihan—sums up his ambition or lack thereof. He doesn't want players who can play. Trap just wants workhorses in midfield, and then hopes our front players will nick a goal.
Wrongly attributed to me. I didn't write this.
That was a perfect game from the Germans, take it easy, pounce when the opportunity required and always in control.
You should probably reference your source in your post to avoid confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Crafty and I were exchanging texts throughout today's games. What a tournament. Great games, great context, the works.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
How comfortable were Germany after they conceded VP's goal? 15 mins left and I'm not sure the Netherlands got a meaningful touch in Germany's defensive third for the rest of the game. Unreal.
The Germans owned the Dutch in that game (bar Van Persie's goal).
We've had that in Europe before mind.
Handball is defined in the laws as deliberate ball to hand, or deliberately leaving the hand outstretched (which was the phrase you gave). Both are frees and, if in the penalty area, penalties.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I didn't say "deliberately leaving the hand outstretched", I wrote "leaving his hand outstretched". A player can go in to cover an opponent with the arms naturally stretched out 25cm from his body, the ball hits his hand and it is not deemed a penalty, a deliberate contact.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
'the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement'
There is no primary requirement for defenders to hold their hand behind their backs