yeah thats why i mentioned gaaQuote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Praha
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yeah thats why i mentioned gaaQuote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Praha
OK :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Seems somebody doesn't have much time for his former country
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FORMER REPUBLIC of Ireland international Michael Robinson, who is now a television presenter and leading football pundit in Spain, has compared this evening’s game in Gdansk to “Muhammad Ali fighting a dwarf”, and insisted Giovanni Trapattoni’s side “cannot win this match”.
In an interview with the Spanish newsagency EFE which Trapattoni might well stick up on the dressingroom wall prior to kick-off, Robinson, who has lived in Spain for a 25 years now, says he will be supporting Spain for football reasons and because of all that the country has given him since he moved there.
His assessment of Trapattoni and the Ireland team, though, is completely damning with the former Preston, Brighton and Liverpool striker describing their game plan as outdated and the players as essentially second rate. He predicts if the defending champions produce anything like their best form then they will run out very comfortable winners.
“There’s no threat from Ireland; Ireland cannot win this match,” he says. “It’s like Muhammad Ali fighting a dwarf. Ireland are going to try to be an irritating obstacle, but if Spain play at 80 per cent of their ability, they’ll thrash them.
“I’m supporting Spain,” he continued. “I hope Ireland go out of the tournament unscathed, that they play like gladiators. I hope Ireland finish the game with dignity, with the glory of competing with this great Spain side.
“But I’ve lived in Spain longer than I’ve lived in England. Spain has given me so much. And if I think about what’s best for football, I want beautiful football to prosper and be imitated. I really hope Spain win this tournament because children need to watch Spain and focus on them. Spain have returned the emphasis on playing with the ball, it’s brilliant.”
Asked if he feels the Irish game has moved on since his time in the side, primarily the early ’80s when he contributed, from the margins, to a Liverpool side that won the league, League Cup and European cup, Robinson is scathing.
“No, not at all. Perhaps that’s the problem. If I spoke to you about England, I’d say the same thing. On the British Isles football is going through a Darwin-style evolution; a slow one. I don’t think football over there has changed much despite the influx of so many foreign players to the Premier League. The league has involved, but the England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Northern Ireland teams have not. I read that Ireland was going to adopt catenaccio because Giovanni Trapattoni is their manager; what a load of nonsense! Ireland’s players don’t know how to play that way.”
His interviewer then suggests that under Trapattoni Ireland in fact play “super catenaccio” prompting further derision. “That’s wrong. Doyle, their number nine, tries to play off the back of the full back. He’s been doing this all his career . . . It’s the same with Keane, he couldn’t adapt to playing at Liverpool. Ireland could be playing against Spain, Iceland or Mars, it’s the same, they wouldn’t have much of the ball. People associate them with catenaccio because they don’t know how to use the ball, but it’s not catenaccio.”
He is, meanwhile, indifferent to the effect Trapattoni has had on the team, suggesting the veteran coach neither brings anything new to, nor gets anything extra out of, his players. “I don’t think he’s been particularly good or particularly bad,” he says. “Has he taken something from Ireland? No. Has he brought anything new to Ireland? No. You’re a man who likes to watch good football, do Ireland play good football? Ireland do what they can, I respect that. I think that football in Ireland is respectable because it’s honest.
“But football on the British Isles is a bit old-fashioned . . .They try and give their best, but it’s possible trying their best isn’t enough to call it good football. It’s because they don’t wish to play good football, it’s because they don’t have the technical ability to do anything else.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...317877192.html
The Dutch TV constantly refers to us as British.
well if we stopped capping the odd brit it might make a difference!
Not the smartest tool in the drawer, is he?Quote:
“I’m supporting Spain,” he continued. “I hope Ireland go out of the tournament unscathed, that they play like gladiators. I hope Ireland finish the game with dignity, with the glory of competing with this great Spain side.
“But I’ve lived in Spain longer than I’ve lived in England.
We didn't hack it away in the 2nd minute of the game. Nice triangle amond the back 4 and, oh yeah, the ball was given away in our own half and Croatia scored. There's a lot to be said for hacking when you have players when they try to pass give it to the opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
He hasn't heard the legend of Fionn MacCumhail then?Quote:
Originally Posted by magicman
I've seen a few power rankings rate us as the weakest team in the competition, the EPL followers who've never seen Ireland play before seem to think we're little better than a championship based on the individuals and the clubs they play for (this unfortunately include a large section of the Irish supporters), the others don't know a lot of our players bar Robbie Keane.
Nobody stood out for us the last day and while there was some who gave us a shot against Croatia believe we're now a fodder team. We'll need to do something tonight or we'll have exited without even making a ripple.
The panel on RTE commented on Michael Robinson, and put him firmly back in his box.Quote:
Originally Posted by magicman
what did they say? Found his article very disappointing in tone...(correct but just been a (insert swear word) about it.)Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Not word for word but:Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
Giles: The comments were disrespectful.
Dunphy: Dunphy himself disagrees with some of the decisions Trap makes, but the man deserves respect and what Robinson said was disrespectful.
On the players being second rate:
Dunphy said: Robinson was no Pele himself.
Brady: Robinson is a bit of a mouthpiece for the Madrid media, and is a big football pundit on Spanish Tv. Said he wouldn't expect anything less as Robinson plays up big time to the Madrid media as they are his employers.
To which Dunphy replied:
Don't you hate those second rate Ireland players who are pundits now and talk a load of rubbish.
Cue much laughter as Eamon was obviously extracting the urine out of himself as well.
As I said, not word for word, but that was the gist of it.
Gutted to have witnessed and say it, but the rest of the world was right.
All the haters were correct, we were absolutely abysmal. Look at Spains WC 2010 results, you won't see any hammerings in there, but little old Ireland lay down for them.
Scotland did better against them in qualifying - twice. Lost 3-1 and 3-2.
Liechtenstein held them to 4-0 at home!!
Shocking stuff!!
Apart from a certain tone of snideness - which may or may or not have been Robinson's intention (are these his actual words, or as translated and then culled for quotes?) - there's not much to disagree with what he said. Our style of football hasn't progressed at national level; I've seen LoI teams show greater tactical nous against continental teams in recent years. When honest endeavour, or a gladiatorial conflict with an expected honourable defeat, is the limit of your expectations, it's time to take stock.
Judging from his article (and what charlie quoted) I'd say Ireland was never his country to begin and he's a fine example of the people we shouldn't be handing out caps to.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
Some comments (on the negative spectrum of things) from 4chan. Mostly Americans and western europeans. Thoughts on people who view our supporters like this?
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The Irish are fake supporters. For them it's just a trip to Poland and yet another reason to get drunk all day every day. They don't give a **** about the football itself, just about playing dress-up and being blindly nationalistic.
Sing when they're losing? Thats implying they cared about winning to begin with.
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Implying the Irish actually support their local teams. That's how good a bunch of supporters they are, their league's dead and they rarely push attendances beyond the 10k mark. ****ing pathetic.
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The reason why Irish and Scottish are so good is because they know they're ****. You won't see English/German/Spanish fans act like that when they're being thrashed because they feel ashamed, the Irish expect to be thrashed.
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>Come to support their country
>Wearing Scottish club shirts
You ****ing idiots
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>not being passionate about sports and just wanting to get drunk
>best supporters
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Thank god they're gone by next week. They're only in it for the drinking anyways.
"Rarely"?Quote:
Implying the Irish actually support their local teams. That's how good a bunch of supporters they are, their league's dead and they rarely push attendances beyond the 10k mark. ****ing pathetic.
Hard to disagree with a lot of what's being said there though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
It's all true.
I think he actually a few years ago said that playing for Ireland was purely a career move and something that meant little to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
These comments sound like begrudery to me. These clowns don't understand the meaning of support. So support only matters when you win? If you lose you are suppose to turn on your team? The meaning of the word support: to sustain (a person, the mind, spirits, courage, etc.) under trial or affliction: (They supported him throughout his ordeal).Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
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"The Irish are fake supporters. For them it's just a trip to Poland and yet another reason to get drunk all day every day. They don't give a **** about the football itself, just about playing dress-up and being blindly nationalistic"
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Blindly nationalistic yet we applaud other people's anthems? Hard to get to the games without making a trip to Poland and if they were only in it for the drink, why bother go to the game as there is no drink allowed. As fake supporters, they did very well to make noise throughout the same supporting the team even though the team was being thrashed.
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"Sing when they're losing? Thats implying they cared about winning to begin with"
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If the support was great even when we lost, that idiot should have seen the scenes IF we had won. WOuld have been unbelievable. Ridiculous comment.
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Implying the Irish actually support their local teams. That's how good a bunch of supporters they are, their league's dead and they rarely push attendances beyond the 10k mark. ****ing pathetic.
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Where is the implication that this has anything to do with local teams? This is international football. Where are all the Spanish and English who support their local teams? At home not supporting their country. ****ing pathetic.
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The reason why Irish and Scottish are so good is because they know they're ****. You won't see English/German/Spanish fans act like that when they're being thrashed because they feel ashamed, the Irish expect to be thrashed.
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No, English fans thrash the place rather than expecting to be thrashed. Of course our expectations are not as high as countries with 10 times our population or more. The English must feel ashamed a lot of the time since 1966. We don't expect to be thrashed but we regard it as a hazard of the trade.
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Come to support their country
>Wearing Scottish club shirts
You ****ing idiots
>not being passionate about sports and just wanting to get drunk
>best supporters
Thank god they're gone by next week. They're only in it for the drinking anyways
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Didn't see that many "Scottish club shirts" but I don't see any problem wearing a shirt of a club with a huge Irish tradition especially since they are green and white. I wore my Shamrock Rovers jersey. Perhaps it was me he was talking about. Many fans love to drink and enjoy themselves. Is that a crime? A very small proportion come only for the latter but if they go to games and support the team, good luck to them. Life is to short for the curmudgeons of this world.
Jealousy is a terrible thing. Stand up for the boys in green....
I'll probably get a grilling for saying this but all this talk about the Irish fans being the best in the world etc. is rubbish. When Manchester United came to town, how many United jerseys were on show compared to the Select XI? we have our fair share of barstoolers who enjoy the chance for a good ****up abroad but would struggle to tell you anything about the club history of any of the players or even venture near their local football stadium. Getting the tricolour out doesn't necessarily mean your really a supporter of Irish football.
What about a tri-color with "Ross County" emblazoned on it? True story. Christ almighty.
Dead right, it's garbage and patronising. Everytime I hear it it reminds me of the latest teeny bopper pop star saying "Oooooh I have the best fans in the world" to mass high pitched cheers from a crowd with an average age of 11.Quote:
Originally Posted by horton
I know people who went to the Euros who wouldn't go to the Aviva to watch any of the qualifiers - much less go to an away game. The same people have never seen the inside of an LOI ground or, save for once or twice, travelled to see the team they support across the water. They are event junkies, pure and simple.
We're a pathetic nation with a pathetic mentality for lapping it up and hearing people like Delaney and some of the players peddling this cr@p makes me cringe.
Is this a regular occurrence for you, barney?Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Yes, most of the crowd are about 9 but I drag the average age to 11. My username isn't my real name - it's the costume I wear most days.
I don't see what the issue is with that, at least no more of an issue than any other Irish flag with the name of an Irish town or club emblazoned on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
There are plenty of Irish fans born in England and now we know some come from Scotland.
Me too. Jealous if you ask me
I heard Stephen Kelly on SSN saying the players owe the amazing supporters something. No cr@p being peddled whatsoever, straight from the heart of a very likeable very honest player who went to Lansdowne just as we did.Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
As for event junkyism, I take the point but only to a degree. I just finished a postgrad degree in sports business & economics (focusing almost 100% on football - and with a lot of focus on marketing) and I read a lot of published research into fan behaviour and motivation for attending matches. There's no one type of fan - which is important for the commercial people to identify so they can target different groups of fans with different products for example - but the key is that there are different motivations which we should recognise. One of these is being part of the event itself - some fans are more likely to attend as being part of the crowd is part of the matchday experience. Without this it's less appealing. I think this is a justifiable motivation, even though I don't need it myself, but as a guy who has gone many many times to small events I have to admit that when I get a chance to be an "insider" at a big event I love it. I don't feel a part of an Arsenal or Celtic event for example.
Other fans are loyal locals - like LOI fans. Some are even dysfunctional nutters, some are just casual occasional fans etc. (There's a concept known as "the escalator" - marketers at clubs needing to get the casual occasional into a semi-regular, getting the semi-regular into a regular etc. The analogy breaks down at the top - you don't want people to fall off!).
There are many ways to skin a cat basically, none being superior to the other. In rugby AIL attendances have always been poor, yet when the context changes and the product improves, crowds turn up all of a sudden. Apart from the national team there is not a football product that appeals to large and varied segments of demand. The loyal locals and dysfunctional nutters (:)) seem to be the only segments attracted to Irish domestic football. I think Trap's style has turned people away too. We got 65k against Cyprus and 40k+ against Andorra not too long back.
PM me if anyone wants me to send the fan research studies.
The Examiner provide a synposis of the Spanish press:
“Silva always wanted to win the game with his intelligence,” wrote San Martín. “He approached the Irish penalty area with intent, looking for gaps, lifting his head and searching for the best passing option, as the great players do. That is how he scored the night’s ‘golazo’, and that is how Spain played one of their greatest games, to the wonder of the world.”
Marca’s match report said that the Irish team had been completely overrun, especially in central midfield.
“Ireland suffered a calvary,” wrote Santiago Segurola. “The Irish are still stuck in the stone age. Far from advancing, they provoke nostalgia for the likes of Johnny Giles or Liam Brady, excellent midfielders who would have been disappointed in their national team. Ireland could not string two passes together.”
After all the pre-match talk of Xabi Alonso’s brief experience of Gaelic football in Meath as a teenager, El Mundo analyst Julían Ruiz chose another sport to make his point about Ireland’s lack of quality.
“Ireland seemed like a rugby team because of the shape of their players and the roughness of their technique,” wrote an unimpressed Ruiz. “But they could not invent a try or a scrum. The Irish ‘potatoes’ ended up in the sack made by the Spanish team.”
There was more reasonable analysis from Julio Maldonado in AS.
“There was little Ireland could do,” he wrote. “They began with a high defensive line, but Spain pushed them back with their passing game. That left McGeady and Duff without any options, and it was even harder for Robbie Keane. The centre of Ireland’s defence was powerless against Torres’ movement. Only Given saved Ireland from a hammering.”
Former Spain coach Luís Aragones was nicer to Ireland in his Marca column: “There was only one team on the pitch,” argued the Euro 2008 winning boss. “You cannot belittle the win because the opponent was not as good as they might have been. This is also to Spain’s credit, they knew how to magnify their own virtues and minimise those of their rival.”
All the papers agreed that Ireland’s fans had outperformed their team by singing through to the final whistle.
“Spain spent the last few minutes showing off, and it was then we understood that the true representatives of Ireland were their supporters,” wrote Juanma Trueba in AS. “They were exceptional.”
http://euro2012.irishexaminer.com/an...ge-197688.html
Like that covers all the people that went there and supported the team. Of course there are event junkies who go to games. That doesn't mean that there are thousands of fans who go to support the team and enjoy themselves (the two are not mutually exclusive). There are also thousands of LOI supporters who don't support the national team. DOes that make them any less of a football supporter. As I mentioned above, the definition of "support" is to sustain (a person, the mind, spirits, courage, etc.) under trial or affliction: (They supported him throughout his ordeal). Support does not mean to turn your back on someone when times get difficult. Of course this "best in the world" supporters is hyperbole but the support has been phenominal and to knock it is so typically Irish for those who weren't there. As was said by Vincent Hogan in Saturday's Inndo, the singing was not a celebration of failure but people lifting themselves beyond the immediacy of failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
that's just a myth thats peddled about. Plus you don't talk about LOI fans in terms of thousands!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I don't think that's a myth at all, at least judging by what some people post here.
so you judge by the number of fruitcakes on this forum as opposed to the erm, thousands, of fans who travel to tournaments wearing their local teams jerseys...
Im sure theres on or two nutbars who dont support the national team, as there are in England, but its not representative of LOI fans in any way and therefore is just a myth that a lot of barstoolers buy into to make themselves feel better about not supporting the local game.
Supporters not fans.
I love how even when I point to academic work just 3 posts earlier profiling football fan motivation and categorisation, you still see only 2 kinds - local fans and barstoolers. C'mon Stu, you're smarter than that. I'm not sure I understand Dong's distinction between fan & supporter, but I presume the same point applies to him (apologies if not).Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Get this into your heads lads - there are many types of fan, varying degrees of attachment and many ways to support the game or be interested in it.
Also, I don't think I have ever heard a fan of the national team say he's not interested in the LOI because LOI fans aren't interested in the national team. Surely a myth has to be widely believed to be considered a myth. I know of several other reasons why many don't support it.
im not sure why you have more problems with my generalisation, which simplifies things for the sake of readability and do not take umbrage with Owlsfans categorisation of what can only be described as the majority of LOI fans... harrumph.
As a supporter of an Irish team in flesh and in spirit for almost 20 years now, i fully understand the fact that there is more than two categories of fan. I found myself nodding in agreement at the points you made in your post vis a vis floating fans, regular fans, diehards etc... if i tried to capture those intricacies in my posts id be here all year!
Ive heard that myth from a lot of people over the years as a reason for not supporting an Irish team. Its a myth and its bizarre logic!
OK, fair enough but I've never heard it and I also hate the term barstooler. I hated Brian O'Connor's patronising article about the LOI a while back but he does have a point about the "righteous indignation of the LOI fan"!
Outside the glory days of big tournaments I think our media (and the editors are to blame, not the hacks - something Brady alluded to in the RTE debate), except maybe The Examiner, patronise ALL of Irish football while they are in thrall to all things English. As DCFC Steve (where is he these days?) said ages back it's some bizarre post-colonial reverse psychology thing.