FAI seek Derry exemption

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29/01/2012, 4:40 PM
sadloserkid

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulmersKid

They have job to represent the League of Ireland clubs at UEFA, eheather we think what they are doing is right or wrong.

How does fighting for Derry City's right to play in Europe represent the other clubs in the league (possible impact on coefficient aside)?
29/01/2012, 5:50 PM
dcfc_1928

As far as I know it's up to the national association to nominate who represents them in Europe, the clubs don't deal directly with UEFA

If Derry City have asked the FAI to help put their case forward then, as the national association, surely it's up to the FAI to do that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadloserkid

How does fighting for Derry City's right to play in Europe represent the other clubs in the league (possible impact on coefficient aside)?
29/01/2012, 5:56 PM
MagicMon

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadloserkid

How does fighting for Derry City's right to play in Europe represent the other clubs in the league (possible impact on coefficient aside)?

Chances are some other club will dissolve, reinvent itself and then qualify for Europe in 2 seasons because everyone further up will have gone bust too, or had points deductions. Setting the precedent for Derry allows the FAI to f*ck around with the leage to their heart's content without having to worry about UEFA getting involved.
29/01/2012, 7:36 PM
sadloserkid

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfc_1928

If Derry City have asked the FAI to help put their case forward then, as the national association, surely it's up to the FAI to do that?

I've no problem with that but let us not pretend then that the FAI are gone to bat on behalf of the league in general rather than Derry specifically (and I know it wasn't you who had done that in the first place).
29/01/2012, 8:26 PM
Mario

No way the should be let in, as they say in the North, Derry should 'take their oil' and sit out till the ban has passed after the cheating that saw that relegated!
29/01/2012, 8:33 PM
dcfc_1928

I'm confused. In an earlier thread about James McClean you talked about the "previous Derry City club".

Do you consider the current Derry City to be the same club or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario

No way the should be let in, as they say in the North, Derry should 'take their oil' and sit out till the ban has passed after the cheating that saw that relegated!
29/01/2012, 9:04 PM
dcfc_1928

Have any Northern clubs made representation to UEFA, through the IFA, about Derry City's attempts to get into the Europa League?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Could be interesting to a few clubs up North....
29/01/2012, 9:26 PM
BonnieShels

Can we make this clear. Derry were not relegated. Their results for 2009 were expunged and they were kicked out of the LOI!
And were then allowed to snake back in without Wellvan involvment! :)
30/01/2012, 4:55 AM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulmersKid

Why not?

As a memeber of any organistation, I Would expect that orgainsation to represent me to the best of their ability.

Anyway, this to me looks like the FAI getting someone else to do the dirty work. I can't see UEFA going aginst their own rules and FAI can come away and say they did their best.

They have job to represent the League of Ireland clubs at UEFA, eheather we think what they are doing is right or wrong.

Bohemians are also a LOI club, who will lose out if the FAI try to break these rules
30/01/2012, 5:25 AM
dcfc_1928

Have Bohs asked the FAI to make representations to UEFA on their behalf, in order to gain that European spot?

If they have, and the FAI refused, then you probably have a point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

Bohemians are also a LOI club, who will lose out if the FAI try to break these rules
30/01/2012, 6:00 AM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfc_1928

Have Bohs asked the FAI to make representations to UEFA on their behalf, in order to gain that European spot?

If they have, and the FAI refused, then you probably have a point.

I don't see that it's relevant tbh.

The FAI decide who they put forward as representatives. It's not up to the clubs to ask them to do so! The FAI chose to pick Derry as their representative, despite the rules, instead of picking Bohs. That was their choice, nobody elses.

Clubs don't have to ask to be put forward as representatives!
30/01/2012, 6:50 AM
dcfc_1928

But surely clubs have the right to object? Particularly when there seems to be valid grounds for an objection.

Everyone seems to be quite indignant on behalf of Bohs, I'm simply wondering what their position is on the matter.

Have Bohs applied for a UEFA license and are the FAI helping them with their application?

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

I don't see that it's relevant tbh.

The FAI decide who they put forward as representatives. It's not up to the clubs to ask them to do so! The FAI chose to pick Derry as their representative, despite the rules, instead of picking Bohs. That was their choice, nobody elses.

Clubs don't have to ask to be put forward as representatives!
30/01/2012, 7:14 AM
osarusan

I don't know why UEFA created this 3-year trading rule, but am I right in speculating that the situation Derry are in now (new trading company after old one left debts behind, and the club being able to recover quickly because of all the unpaid debt) is exactly the kind of situation the rule was written for?
30/01/2012, 7:17 AM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfc_1928

But surely clubs have the right to object? Particularly when there seems to be valid grounds for an objection.

Everyone seems to be quite indignant on behalf of Bohs, I'm simply wondering what their position is on the matter.

Have Bohs applied for a UEFA license and are the FAI helping them with their application?

Of course they have the right to object, who said otherwise.

However, them not objecting doesn't mean whats being done is right (I've no idea if they've objected or not).

Why would Bohs have applied for a UEFA licence without being put forward as a representative. That makes no sense. You're put forward as a representative, and then you apply for the licence.

Bohs have a lot of stuff to worry about right now, so I dunno if this is something their focusing on, but that doesn't make it right.
30/01/2012, 7:39 AM
dcfc_1928

Are you sure?

I thought that each club which believes it can qualify for European competitions must, prior to the beginning of that season, apply for a UEFA Club Licence.

In this case if Bohs believe they can qualify, because Derry are refused a license, then they must also submit an application?

Regardless, my point is, the FAI will help any of its member clubs with their application for a UEFA club license.

It's up to the FAI to assist their member clubs with the process, but at the end of the day it will be UEFA's decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

Of course they have the right to object, who said otherwise.

However, them not objecting doesn't mean whats being done is right (I've no idea if they've objected or not).

Why would Bohs have applied for a UEFA licence without being put forward as a representative. That makes no sense. You're put forward as a representative, and then you apply for the licence.

Bohs have a lot of stuff to worry about right now, so I dunno if this is something their focusing on, but that doesn't make it right.
30/01/2012, 7:48 AM
dcfc_1928

Yep - that's exactly why it was created and why I can't ultimately see UEFA accepting the licensing application.

Quote:

Originally Posted by osarusan

I don't know why UEFA created this 3-year trading rule, but am I right in speculating that the situation Derry are in now (new trading company after old one left debts behind, and the club being able to recover quickly because of all the unpaid debt) is exactly the kind of situation the rule was written for?
30/01/2012, 9:33 AM
Dodge

FAI with their Dublin bias as usual
30/01/2012, 9:36 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Can we make this clear. Derry were not relegated. Their results for 2009 were expunged and they were kicked out of the LOI!
And were then allowed to snake back in without Wellvan involvment! :)

Their results were not expunged. Their license was revoked (after all games played) but the results counted (unlike Dublin City's in 2006)
30/01/2012, 11:02 AM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I like the way Bohs could be the ones to benefit. Kind of highlights how the LoI never learns.

if Bohs get the spot it will be because they finished the highest placed team that meet the relevent criteria. The only thing the LOI has to "learn" is that some on here are incapable of leaving their anti Bohs bias out of any discussion. :mad:

Persoanlly I think if the FAI seek a deregation for Derry it will be granted - simply because EUFA dont really care who represents our league.

And if that is how it transpires best of luck to them in europe but I can understand the surprise/concern of some at the FAI advocating on behalf of a club they so recently expelled.
30/01/2012, 11:14 AM
Dodge

Anti Bohs bias from a UCD fan? He he hee

UEFA do care, and as hinted earlier the Coleraine situation only 60 miles down the road is the key indicator there.
30/01/2012, 11:54 AM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Anti Bohs bias from a UCD fan? He he hee

UEFA do care, and as hinted earlier the Coleraine situation only 60 miles down the road is the key indicator there.

P Stu a UCD fan he he hee. hardly news that he has an anti Bohs agenda (on here at least) now is it ?

If Uefa are as short on fudge as you suspect FAI application could face an uphill struggle. Not so sure the FAI should be highlighting the "boom/bust/back again" culture that has spread in LOI
30/01/2012, 12:38 PM
A N Mouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

UEFA do care, and as hinted earlier the Coleraine situation only 60 miles down the road is the key indicator there.

Dodge what's the point of reference for your distance calculation? :p

Astana lost on the last day of the season or they would be in exactly the same situation as derry. Preventing a repeat of last year, when they were barred from taking part.

It's probably going to come down to some technicality. Like this being the fourth european season of this iteration of dcfc's existence.
30/01/2012, 12:38 PM
nigel-harps1954

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinobohs

P Stu a UCD fan he he hee. hardly news that he has an anti Bohs agenda (on here at least) now is it ?

If Eufa are as short on fudge as you suspect FAI application could face an uphill struggle. Not so sure the FAI should be highlighting the "boom/bust/back again" culture that has spread in LOI

I'm sorry, but your quality miss-spelling just made my day.
30/01/2012, 12:41 PM
BonnieShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Their results were not expunged. Their license was revoked (after all games played) but the results counted (unlike Dublin City's in 2006)

Sorry I meant in expunged with regard to Derry themselves. They finished on zero as result? Think that's right?
30/01/2012, 12:47 PM
Dodge

No, otherwise they'd have had to amend the table for everyone
30/01/2012, 5:35 PM
BonnieShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

No, otherwise they'd have had to amend the table for everyone

Yeah. Had a proper look. I could have sworn I once saw a table with them removed from the final table.

Either way... Cheatin' ba*****s. :)
31/01/2012, 1:02 PM
R�iteoir

There any timescale on when a decision will be made either way?
21/02/2012, 12:36 PM
Mr A

From their forum I gather that Derry will not be allowed to play in Europe this year.
21/02/2012, 12:55 PM
Charlie Darwin

Confirmed on the club's twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/derrycityfc/st...48431831597057
21/02/2012, 1:19 PM
Shannonsider

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

Wasn't that the old Derry City? The new Derry City are the ones we are discussing, the club that the FAI is trying to help get into Europe.

Is this the new Derry with the same ground, the same crest, the same history, the same club colours, the same fanbase?
21/02/2012, 1:38 PM
refjohn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannonsider

Is this the new Derry with the same ground, the same crest, the same history, the same club colours, the same fanbase?

Almost - they changed the crest ;)
21/02/2012, 1:39 PM
Shannonsider

Quote:

Originally Posted by refjohn

Almost - they changed the crest ;)

Meh.. Heard they were doing that anyways.. Modern club and all that :p
21/02/2012, 4:08 PM
Sam_Heggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by refjohn

Almost - they changed the crest ;)

Nope, it still has founded in 1928 on it.
21/02/2012, 4:38 PM
dcfc_1928

Nope.

http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/w...628/405343.jpg

http://inform.fai.ie/statsportal/Clu...px?clubID=1316

http://www.derrycityfc.net/wp-conten.../cwlogo_wp.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Nope, it still has founded in 1928 on it.
21/02/2012, 8:03 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannonsider

Is this the new Derry with the same ground, the same crest, the same history, the same club colours, the same fanbase?

A new club according to their chairman today.

"We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us, but from the previous club" So I hope theiy are not claiming the old clubs history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17116759
21/02/2012, 9:06 PM
SwanVsDalton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

A new club according to their chairman today.

"We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us, but from the previous club" So I hope theiy are not claiming the old clubs history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17116759

Me too, I'm still waiting for the treble winners to come back into existence so I can bang on about it. :(
21/02/2012, 9:16 PM
dcfc_1928

Yet UEFA's decision would suggest that it's not a new club.

Confused? I know that I am...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

A new club according to their chairman today.

"We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us, but from the previous club" So I hope theiy are not claiming the old clubs history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17116759
21/02/2012, 9:21 PM
Charlie Darwin

UEFA's decision suggests it is a new club, as far as I know. A club has to be in existence for three years before it can compete in European competition.
21/02/2012, 9:38 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

UEFA's decision suggests it is a new club, as far as I know. A club has to be in existence for three years before it can compete in European competition.

Nope, Sportng Fingal began playing football in March 2008, and played in Europe in July 2010.

Holding company has to be operating for 3 years (have financial records for 3 years) apparently
21/02/2012, 11:02 PM
CSFShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfc_1928

Yet UEFA's decision would suggest that it's not a new club.

Confused? I know that I am...

I don't think UEFA'S decision does suggest that. I don't have the wording of the rule to hand, but from what I've gathered in reading about this case, the rule relates to reformed clubs from the ashes of a liquidated club or one that went out of existence. In the same way that a club who has been in administration can't be in Europe for a certain amount of time. Difficult enough to govern but the fact that UEFA don't have to answer to the courts really, (as illustrated by Sion/Celtic) makes it easier for them to do the right thing.

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