Sorry lads, but I think it has all just finally hit home tonight after the draw! YEEEOOOO! :sinister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifO7AwBtNjE
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Sorry lads, but I think it has all just finally hit home tonight after the draw! YEEEOOOO! :sinister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifO7AwBtNjE
Look lads, I know we like to put spin on things, but lets be realistic for a minute here.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Spain are European and World Champions. A Spanish side is currently European club Champions. They sweep the boards at club and international level, nobody wants to face them, and even with 3 good teams in this group, they will walk this, probably by winning all 3 games, unless they have a France '02 meltdown, which I think is highly unlikely.
I am generally known to be a pessimistic, cynical **** but you lot make me look like an eternal optimist. The fact that some are throwing in the towel (at least for the Spain match) six months before the tournament disgusts me. Spain are not invincible, they are not unbeatable, they are a good team but every dog has its day. My brother always used to tell me, "its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog." If we really want it more and the players are willing to lay it all on the line, we can get a result against them (as we saw in Russia where we were played off the pitch), and I'm not only talking about a draw. Will they? I don't know. At the end of the days its just 11 men chasing around a bag of air against another 11 men chasing that same bag of air.
Italy are beatable, Croatia are beatable, Spain are not unbeatable. Bilic is in dispute with the HNS over his contract and salary (despite getting a 5-10% cut of each player capped under his tenure transfer fee out of Croatia) and the Croats are expecting the team to come 2nd in the group. Italy are a shadow of their former selves and Ireland can do a number on them, plus the manager wants to prove something against his own country. Spain are a very good side but will have to work very hard to break Ireland down. Great draw and means a real boost for the country.
Love the optimism but no matter how the other 3 teams are, we're not very good, sadly!
Especially when it comes to, er, beating teams.
Which is rather essential at this level.
100/1 with ladbroke's at the moment.
Fiver each way for a bit of fun i think..
With the draw over, England will probably come to Dublin early in 2012? Portugal and Czech Republic could be ideal friendly games in preparation to play Croatia and Spain?
In groups where best third placed teams qualified from groups, three draws would do like '90. Three draws will be well earned in a group like we have for next June but not enough.
We're going to be totally written off against the Spanish but it doesn't mean the game will go according to script. The French were expected to wrap up the play-off after winning in Croke Park but need a thiefs helping had to steal the win. Ireland had to win that game in the 90 minutes to take it to at least extra-time as they did.
Looking at the games and results needed, it would seem we can't afford to lose to the Croat's. Even if we did lose, while it would be hugely difficult from there, shocks happen. The Spanish could come into the game off a win over the Italian expecting to wrap up the group with an easy win. Irish teams have fight and could produce the result to shake up the tournament.
I've wanted us to qualify to play top teams. We've got that. Let's enjoy it!
We haven't even played a game yet and people are giving up. It's tough but not impossible. I'd rather play Spain than Holland and Germany. If you watched England-Spain you'll see why nicking a point or even fluking a win it's beyond the realms of possibility for a team that plays like we do under the Trap. This Spanish can be beaten in competitive football as well...... the Swiss frustrated the life out of em back in 2010. Let's go there, rise to the occasion and surprise a few people.
Greece 2004 should be our blueprint for success.
We won't disgrace ourselves but I'd be very surprised if we progressed from the group. Realistically can anyone see Spain falling at the first hurdle? That would be a massive shock. So this effectively means ourselves Croatia and Italy are fighting for one of the qualification spots and both teams I think would fancy their chances against us. A couple of draws then a trip home, or a draw and a win but pipped to the post at the last minute by one of the other teams. These are the most likely outcomes. But we are there and at least in with a shout and that's what matters.
Now if we could just find a decent central midfielder and find a spot for Coleman in the team somewhere (though possibly further up the pitch as his defensive skills are very suspect) I'd be more optimistic. Hopefully Meyler, McCarthy or McCann have a Roy Keane esque next 5 months of club football with McCann getting a move to a Premiership club in January (Bolton possibly?). Unlikely but we can always hope.
i don't think anyone is giving up - it's a tough group though. at least we're not denmark.
trap will have a plan for each of these games. maybe the same plan. my major concern is that he'll play for the draw v croatia, which is the most winnable of the three games.
if he does get us out of this group, it will be an amazing achievement.
It's going to be difficult but not impossible. As long as we still have something realistic to play for in the last of the three game I will be happy.
For us to finally make a finals again and only two of the games really meaning anything would be disappointing.
It's tough but it's the nature of finals that a team's tournament can be virtually over after the first game and definitely after the second. It's tough, won't happen in '16 when there'll be the outside chance of being a best third placed team.
Theres nothing in Group D that particularly scares me for the quarters.
Do Spain have anyone who'll be able to deal with Jon Walters?
Getting there was the big thing and now I think our lads will be licking their lips at the prospect of facing the likes of Spain and Italy at a major tournament. Can you imagine what it must be like for Cox or Andrews? I think we'll play with a freedom and that'll suit us much better. If a top midfielder could come through that'd be great too but I don't think we'll be embarrassed with Given, Dunne, Keane and Duff. So excited now, the whole thing is just brilliant.
My thoughts exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
It's a mean competition, we're there, unfancied and fighting for survival from the get-go. I can't wait.
IF Spain walk this group with three wins (9 points), and frankly I don't think they will, it creates the possibility that we could finish in second without even winning a match and with a mere 2 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
What makes you think this? I can't see us doing anything differently than what got us to the Euros in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
Its the first time since we've qualified that Ive properly got excited about the Euros, it really hit home during the draw and Im buzzing since. For anyone thats writing us off I would say that everytime we've qualified before was the same. No one gave us a hope against England in 88, same against Italy in 94 and after Roy Keane left the squad in 02 we didnt have a hope either. On all of those occasions we've risen above ourselves and put on a great show. So bring on the world champions!
We actually have a great chance of picking up a win against Italy, we definately wont fear them anyway. Modric could really hurt us for Croatia but we definitely have a chance against them and then anything against Spain is a bonus.
Im glad we didnt get England, not because I would fear them but because the whole build up would be about that game and focus mightnt be right for the other 2, we'll worry about them in the quarter finals
It's definitely not a certainty that they will get thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Everyone's saying them across the water have an easy draw but will they get out of the group. France outplayed them in what admittedly was only a friendly last year, Sweden despite an own goal defeat in a recent friendly have a great record against them across the water in competitive games and their last game is against the co-hosts. I think Ukraine will do enough to take a top 2 spot. If them across the water have a win in their first two games, they'll be on the plane home.Quote:
Originally Posted by French Toasht
When I see freedom I mean just slightly more free, tbh! But Trap just needs to figure out how to replicate the Paris performance. Playing the same way as we did in qualifying is simply pointless. We'll be beaten handily by Spain and Italy and perhaps get a point against Croatia. Trap is clever enough to know this (I hope).Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
No realism required on my part - it's a tough draw. That doesn't mean we can't hope to get something out of it though. I think this may be a group that sees a second placed team go through with 4 points and we just about have that in us. We could quite easily get zero points but 4 years ago I'd have bitten your hand off for zero points at a finals.
When I was out running this morning the same thing that YoP said above came into my mind. Jon Walters could prove a real handful for someone, even Spain.
I'm optimistic and I think we have a very decent chance of getting out of the group. We have a very wily manager and a very organised and effective team. We don't have anywhere near the talent of 88,90,94 or 2002, but at the same time we have a good squad that I don't think will let us down.
Spain: The best team in the world with players that will be rightly recognised as some of the greats of their era when they retire. They have particular strength in midfield where we are particularly weak. However, they don't exactly hammer teams and they're bound to have a tournament that they disappoint in. It would be fabulous if Real and Barca get to the latter stages of the Champions League as they should, so that some of their players might pick up knocks. They should have too much for us though.
My prediction would be: Spain 2 Ireland 0
Croatia: The type of team that could reach a semi final without breaking sweat. However, they could also implode and fight amongst themselves. They have a magnificent playmaker in Modric and some other very good players. However, I wouldn't fear them.
My prediction: Croatia 1 Ireland 1.
Italy: Italy are very poor compared to their great teams of the past. However, they have the pedigree and tradition that make them a bit like the Germans in 2002. However, for me, this is the game where we are most likely to get 3 points. Ballotelli could be a star, but equally he could be sent off in either our game or be already suspended by the time of the Ireland game. Trap knows them inside out and they already would seem to be without Cassano and Rossi who are very good strikers.
My prediction: Italy 0 Ireland 1
I actually reckon that we start games on the front foot, have a great habit of scoring early and it's only then that we go into our shells. That's why we're perceived as being negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
We beat (an understrength) Italy with a back 5 of Forde, Kelly (McShane), SSL (first game in months), O'Dea and Ward. That can only give us grounds for cautious optimism!
Barring injuries and suspensions, we should be competitive. Of our big players, Given, Dunne, Duff, Keane and McGeady, the only one that is really indispensable and irreplaceable is Dunne. Of the other players, no doubt they would be a big loss, but we do have adequate cover.
We could perform very respectably and still finish 4th, even lose all 3. It's a tougher group than we had at Euro 88, when there were just 8 teams at the Finals
I suspect that Croatia believe the gap between us and them is much wider than what we think it will be, when the teams line out together in June. Yesterday Bilic let it slip that he thought they were much the better team in the August friendly, but it was the way he said it.
That was such a dull game I can barely recall a single incident from it.
Slaven remembers it.
It has to be said, many of us wanted Greece from pot three. But in fact, Greece finished above Croatia. Greece a team with a similar playing style to ours were able to stifle and beat Croatia, even with Georgios Samaras up front. Let's respect Croatia but not pay them any more respect than they deserve.
Looking at those 3 sides, you can't but think Ireland have been pitted against 3 talented footballing sides. Each side can boast plenty quality, possibly more quality than the Irish squad.
However, I think that's the reason why this group could go any way. Listening to Andrews, he's fully confident that Ireland can get something against Croatia and Italy and is anticipating the Spain game greatly. This epitomises what we can expect from Ireland; fearlessness from a less than world-class player and the old clichés from Big Jack's tenure are somewhat applicable.
That's why next summer will be so exciting. The pressure upon Spain and Italy will be immense in comparison to what Ireland will experience. And the likes of Walters, Andrews and Dunne will only relish the opportunity to take on Chiellini, Modric and Villa.
That said, a loss to Croatia in the first game out could burst the bubble and spirits facing into a game against a buoyant Spanish side could not be but low. But a similar fate awaits an Italian side who must face Spain first. Should Ireland and Italy lose their first games and Spain win all 3, even one victory per side could (Croatia to beat Ireland, Ireland to beat Italy, Italy to beat Croatia) would make for something great.
Italy really struggled to deal with Caleb Folan if I remember rightly and Walters is just as physical while being a better footballerQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
What would happen if all 6 games in a group were 1-1 draws?
Regulations of the UEFA European Football Championship 2010-12:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Quote:
Equality of points after the group matches
8.07 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied, in the order given; to determine the rankings:
a) higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;
b) superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
c) higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
d) superior goal difference in all the group matches;
e) higher number of goals scored in all the group matches;
f) position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system (see Annex I, paragraph 1.2.2);
g) fair play conduct of the teams (final tournament);
h) drawing of lots.
8.08 If two teams which have the same number of points, the same number of goals scored and conceded play their last group match against each other and are still equal at the end of that match, the ranking of the two teams in question is determined by kicks from the penalty mark (Article 16), provided no other teams
within the group have the same number of points on completion of all group matches. Should more than two teams have the same number of points, the criteria listed under paragraph 8.07 apply.
If all teams finished level on points after all 1-1 draws, should both games go to a penalty shoot-out to provide the two teams? It'd be a bit fairer than drawing of lots. Having penalties if it's just two teams finishing level is a good option though but could it be expanded on the unlikely event it was to happen?
The game would only go to a shoot-out if there are just two teams even on points and goal difference after they've happened to play each other in the third and final round of games in the group. From my reading of that, the result in the last game need not even be a draw as it seems to suggest goals for and against in the game with that particular team on the same points and goal difference aren't decisive. Am I reading that correctly?...Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
In the case of more than two teams ending even on points and goal difference, lots would only be drawn in the event that they couldn't be separated by seven other ordered criteria including the teams' respective UEFA rankings and number of red and yellow cards they've picked up. It's highly unlikely a group would ever be decided by lots under such circumstances.
The group would be investigated for match-fixing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
:rolleyes:
And it won't happen, IMHO.
Before penalty shoot outs, did they not use to toss a coin?
I suppose you'd send your best poker player to call the toss.
Love the photo of Joey Lapira!Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
Off topic for one second, but just out of interest what did people make of the Russian delegations rauchous cheer, when they were drawn into the group with the Poles, Czechs and Greeks? Will they be judged by their opponents as arrogant in a similar way to how John Delaney was vilified when we drew Estonia, or will it be seen as just a natural display of human emotion arising out of the circumstances?
My own opinion, it lacked decorum, yes, but arrogant, no.