And if we were only paying him half what we're paying him, he'd be paying back 16 years' worth of his own salary in prize money. Perspective.
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And if we were only paying him half what we're paying him, he'd be paying back 16 years' worth of his own salary in prize money. Perspective.
That's not really perspective, it's just unrealistic.
Also hypothetical, imagine we had an Italian manager and played Italy. Perhaps in Bari...Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
How many campaigns did we miss out on at least the play-offs before Trap came in?
I'd probably go with Jesus considering some of the miracles he's performed, actually looking at the draw for the playoffs there might be some connection there already...
In all seriousness though, he has returned the team to one that is consistently challenging for qualification from one that was an embarrasment prior to his arrival. Yes it's negative at times, yes it's predictable but it's effective. If we had a world class, or even a top level premier division player in the centre of midfield the team would be so much better but unfortunately we don't have that at the moment. That's not any fault of Trap's, and with a bit of luck someone will emerge in spectacular fashion over the next six months and take the team to the next level at the Euro's.
Given his age and the stage he's taken the team to, it might be best to replace him after the Euro's but I don't think we'll really appreciate how good he's been until he's gone. It'll be very difficult to attract a top class manager to replace him, Tardelli stepping up seems the most likely.
Three in a row. Finished 3rd and 4th under Kerr, and 3rd - ten points adrift - under Stan.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
That 4th place was achieved despite having Roy Keane, a slim-ish Andy Reid, a Chelsea-era Duff and a fit Steven Reid at our disposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
the fourth place is the one that really rankles for me.. those two ropey games against the israelies. SHould have walked that group...
This situation reminds me very much of the situation of Benitez with Liverpool.
He has achieved success that the managers before have failed to do.Even though it isnt attractive and it isnt the very best but it is consistent and will a bit of help it could be very good.
Rafa won a champions league,made the highest points margin in premier league history to never win it.Won an Fa cup lost out in a league cup final and champions league final and 1 semi in both the uefa and champions league yet people still called for his head.He never quite won the League but alot of that had to do with two absolute idiots who took over the club and ****ed everything up untill the last few months.
Half the fans called for his head because of the media being very negative towards him and people couldnt just look at the cold facts and make their own mind up that he was a good guy.
Very similair with trap.
Since McCarty we have struggled to come close to qualifying for anything under anyone.Kerr had a very strong team on his hands and he couldnt do it (in I remember a weak group in Euro 2004?) same in 2006.We did very poor competitively with our best team in 15 years. In 2008 stauton was ****e.
In 2010 campaign under Trap we finished second in a group were we were third seed.We went unbeaten in the group also ,that is a very good achievement and as much as the football was not great that is success in my eyes. We got outplayed at home lost 1-0 and outplayed the french away and won 1-0 then got terribly unlucky not to at least get penalties after the handball goal. That was success with a bit of bad luck.
This campaign we have went 9 games without conceding .Finished second ,after being third seeds, by 4 points and now look odds on to go to euro 2012 ,the first tournament for us since 2002.All this and people still call for his head. Maybe it makes more sense in our eyes to play McCarthy Long Fahey and give Andy Reid a call up.But this man knows more than any of us and has got us where we wanna be.
Regardless of how good it looks its a job well done and done well.People woudl rather form and opinion by listening to drunken Dunphy.There is a reason he is not a manager.There is a reason trap is and with a relatively weaker team than the years before he has done a harder job .
Oh yeh,Replace him with Hughton or O Neill.They have both done good jobs with weak teams over the years.Hughton with less experience but he has already been part of the Irish set up so that would work in his favour
Don't people remember that it was McCarthy who f***ed up 2004 after losing the first two games then quitting. Kerr was only responsible for 2006 really. That group was there for the taking and the two draws against Israel let us down in the end. But the three teams above us remained unbeaten. W4 D5 L1. Too many draws. Hmm. Sounds familiar.
the debate over who was really to blame for 2004 will rage on for a while yet I think. Kerr's relationship with the press had yet to detiorate, although some of the warning signs were there towards the end, so he didn't get pilloried the way McCarthy would have been following the 0-0 away to Albania, or the last minute winner from an OG at home to the same side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
Looking back at the results - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Eu...fying_Group_10 - I don't think there's any that he got that McCarthy wouldn't have, although the shadow of Roy Keane would have still loomed large over each one had Mick still been in charge.
Incidentally, there's a similar debate currently raging on boards.ie here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2056418188
Some of the opinions there beggar belief.
I remember Kerr being hailed as a miracle worker for getting Ireland back on track in that group, despite only getting results that anyone would have expected to get.
I was quite fond of Kerr actually. Some really lame performances when it counted was what did for him in my mind. Desperately unlucky at home to Israel mind.
Speaking of luck & Trap etc., people seem only to look back as far as Paris. I go way further back.
Examples include:
- Heysel '81 - avenged in '86?
- Chris Woods not being penalised when England snuck a draw in Poland. Blatant penalty that would probably have qualified us instead of England. Still waiting on retribution for this one!
I still think Trap will shake things up if we qualify, but I would think that a new manager would change the team and approach totally.
While I agree we can and should play better football, the attitude of some of Trap's detractors is amazing. Spoiled by the Premier League, which itself is no pretty painting for the most part.
Pretty much, anything he did was because of the attention to detail that was lacking under Mick's reign, not because it was expected. Read a really good article years ago about how, when a manager is replaced, the media and fans focus on his biggest failing and look for someone who is strong at that, ignoring what (if anything) was done rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
AFAIR Newcastle was given at the example
Dalglish - sacked because of low finish (13th) and uninspiring football
Gullit - reputation for "sexy football" after managing Chelsea, sacked after alienating the crowd
Robson - strong support from the crowd, sacked after being seen to not keeping discipline in the changing room
Souness - reputation for being a strong disciplinarian
Applying that to Ireland
Mick - reputation for not doing enough preparation
Kerr - known for meticulous preparation, lost the dressing room
Staunton - popular in the dressing room, terrible at, well, everything else
Trapattoni - good at most of the aspects of game.
I think the public opinion of Trapattoni's eventual successor is that he will bring through younger players, and play more expansive football.
hmm, I would argue that replacing Keane with Kavanagh, moving Kilbane to the left, and Duff up front (when he had been destroying their left full all game) - effectively three changes instead of one (Elliott for Keane) - was the reason we didn't win that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
and then he sent out a team to put in the most awful lack lustre performance I have ever witnessed v the swiss in 03. after spending weeks chasing ebay tickets to get into the ground i just couldnt believe we could look so passionlessQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Well, at least you haven't fallen into the trap of saying it was a defensive substitution!Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I agree that it was a dumb move, but still think that the second half was a freak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_ceannaire
Have the Boy lay out my formal shorts:
http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=zapp+b...cwuHZBQ&zoom=1http://images.wikia.com/en.futurama/..._Brannigan.png
WTF??Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
The attitude of almost all of Traps detractors is that we can and should play better football.
I meant the attitude that he should be sacked because people get bored watching the matches on TV, as displayed in the board thread linked above.
We need one outstanding player to come through. Or at least a couple of very good players. Then we will see better football. If Roy Keane was at his peak now as a player and playing under Trap in this team then the standard of football would be miles better. More than any change of tactics we need a few breakout players. Hopefully McCarthy, Mayler or a.n. other will step up to the plate.
RMK would have made minimal difference, maybe more aggression.
As for 'stepping up', most of the current fringe players don't seem up to it, if any.
Surely a wind up?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Apologies if posted already. Good article from Liam Mackey.
http://examiner.ie/sport/soccer/trap...rd-170724.html
Not a wind-up, he was more of an enforcer and ball-winner, than great creative force, in midfield...
We need another Mark Kinsella!
Mackey's great, I really look forward to reading his stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
That's Lee Carsley you're describing. Roy Keane was significantly more than that. And he may not have been overly creative but he still had decent vision and could pick out a pass better than the players we currently have imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Think a few of the fringe players could yet step up, too premature to write any of them off. Though I do agree the system will inevitably limit them. Keane was a one-off - not sure if any of these guys could literally drag this team to a World Cup given the way we currently play.
I still think that that version of RMK is overplayed. He was fantastic but he failed to stop Iran having 2 or 3 clear cut chances in Dublin which Shay saved. He failed to do anything in Iran at all, cos he had a big game coming up for Man U. :) Keane didn't score an equaliser in Lisbon, nor did he even play in Estonia.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
He was a key player, - no doubt whatsoever -, probably our best, but in a very good, well-balanced team.
Maybe it's overplayed but it was still ridiculous what he did in a couple of those games. Ireland has never had a player who could exert that kind of influence through sheer force of will alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Portugal at home was unreal, alright.
Influence is they key word. Whatever about what he actually did with the ball, his ability to influence a game at the very highest level just by doing basic stuff excellently is rarely seen.
Cyprus away.
He also started the move for McAteer's winner against Holland. He carried the team through a lot of dodgy games, and it's to Holland and Kinsella's credit that they were able to fill the void at the World Cup.
Keane was a destroyer, no doubt, but he was a playmaker in the way of short pass and move plays. A lot of his passes didn't look that spectactular because they weren't often the artistic long-range Andy Reid pinpoint style passes.
But anyway my point was that ArdeeBhoy's comment that Roy Keane would make "minimal difference" is absurd.
No, he was an egotistical tosser who only turned up when He fancied it.
And always will be.
Feck him.
There is a bit of a stand off as regards to a new contract for Trap according to an article by Fanning in the Indo.
I'd support the FAI's stance totally, no talks until the play offs are done and dusted.
Being an egotistical tosser, and being rather good at football aren't mutually exclusive. I hate Keane with a fiery passion, but not even I can deny he was one hell of a player.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Maybe, but it's got feck all to do with who should replace Trap.
Unless you're suggesting that bottler?
Nothing to see here folks. Usual Indo tripe.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir