Ezekial, what's the skinny on Skinny? Are the consortium back in or not?
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Ezekial, what's the skinny on Skinny? Are the consortium back in or not?
Well at least we know what side of the Dundalk board split you're on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Former Director, Ciaran 'Skinny' Bond was/is fronting a group interested in taking over ownership of the club and have said that they have €192,000 available, which would potentially wipe out the accumulated deficit of the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
About 10 days ago they announced that they were withdrawing, quoting legal and financial complexities (which includes the €433k planning levies attached to the YDC).
The attached article from an interview last Friday gives the up to date situation -
http://blackandwhitetown.tumblr.com/...over-proposals
The simple abridged version is that they are out of the running, but could come back in if circumstances change.
192k eh? Any idea whether they'd like to take over Harps?
I didn't even know there was a board split for me to take sides on. I wait with bated breath for you to fill me in!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Naturally many supporters will have different views on the preferred way forward for the club, and some are dubious about Gerry Matthews for a variety of reasons including his preference for funding the infrastructure rather then the team.
Very few would dispute that he is a straight talking individual, whatever about any other flaws he may have.
Fair enough, was just building on Foster's comments that certain directors had agreed to bringing in players like Cian hughton while others vetoed it (and the reaction to that move and others by fans).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
I assumed the recent flux regarding takeover bids/unexpected debts arising didn't help solidify the board.
Delighted to see my hypothesis was wrong
Its very easy to get the wrong handle on things. The club have made it very clear that this was a unanimous decision of the board. Controversial yes, maybe hard to fathom, and certainly disaapointing for Foster, club and fans alike. But no boardroom split as suggestedQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
The only outcome at board level was the resignation of Ciaran Bond who fronted a buyout group. He is a good guy who is passionate about the club, but really no surprise that he stepped down when the takover attempt was aborted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
He may well come back into the picture.
I was shot down for likening the situation to a decade ago and the Co-op, well, adventure. I almost feel that CB's attempt and now new "we'll clear off the debt if x, y and z happens" is another disaster in the making. I know plenty of people who would be very much anti-GM, though what cannot be taken away is that he did rescue the club, he did get it stable financially and if the accumulated debt (if I read it right) for the last few years is only 192,000e, christ, that's not bad. I just hope IF gets a decent send off and a slightly more experienced and astute manager comes in.
Just read the Gerry Matthews Interview very big budget for a Part Time Club over 4 times ours and we are treading water .How can aeither the Trust or new investors even contemplate that kind of Budget for next season.
gufct - Dundalk do have decent gates, the patrons do an immense amount of work and there is a lot of affection in the town for the club, plus Dundalk is a sports town. While the product/result on the pitch might not always be great, the locals will back it. I've always been frustrated visiting Galway (for football, rugby, GAA, boxing) when there is genuine talent and success/progress on show and the local council do their utmost to kill it. In Dundalk there is a little more assistance, which helps them to keep going.
I'd imagine Dundalk have a tougher time keeping homegrown talent and attracting players from other counties than Galway.
True, but Dublin is just down the road.
well the only homegrown player from dundalk in the league that would walk into our team would be Conor McCormack. probably the biggest mistake foster made in not chasing him upQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
If memory serves me correct Shane Grimes (Monaghan) and Mulvenna (Drogheda) are the only other dundalk lads playing in the leage.
We were able to attract Daniel Kearns last season, Peter Cherrie (scottish) in 2009, Dean Bennett (english), other names escape.
In relation to the takeover, I really hope the majority of our supporters grasp this opportunity and get behind the trust. The problems that face the club are difficult but they are not insurmountable once addressed.
I would expect if the YDC issue gets sorted then the Bond consortium will be back in. My problem with this is that i feel overall it will set the club back in regard to community relations. I beleive the consortium will run the club like a cartel and only serve their own interests and not those of supporters and other stakeholders and overall will be to the long term detriment of the club. (that is only my opinion).
I think GM tenure at the club was a great success, he saved us from the brink, brought in various revenue streams, up until a couple of years ago balanced our books and brought a sense of realism. I think the time is right for him to move on as I feel that he does not know how to move the club forward. I found this prevailent this season as we seemed to be a club in limbo with no sense of direction on how to move the club forward.
I also believe that the DFC trust are the best people to bring the club forward with the support of the supporters
He did, Rovers offered him more.Quote:
Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite
It’s a pity we didn’t get to sign McCormack as he seems like a cracking player. I’m not sure of the ins and outs but he was training with us last year during the summer. I’m not sure if he was offered a contract with us, but the lure in signing for Shamrock Rovers than us would be bigger than us even for a Dundalk local.Quote:
Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite
In my opinion Foster also made a mistake by not signing two of the Brennan brothers – Ryan & Gavin. Both played in trial games here, but neither got offered contracts. Even though they can’t technically be called locals (more Drogheda) both live in close enough vicinity to Oriel.
At the moment we have a good bunch of locals. I count seven in the first team (P.Murphy, N.Murphy, Osborne, Gaynor, McDonnell, Breen, Griffin). Cian Byrne can be added to that list as he has become a regular in the past few weeks due our ongoing injury crisis. Others like Duffy, Kerr and McDonald have had small cameo roles throughout the season. Its good to see locals getting a chance for many a year they rarely featured in the first team.
Just two quick questions. Drog fans, how has Mulvenna been doing since he came into your team in the summer. Mon fan, how has Shane Grimes been performing for yous?Quote:
Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite
The club is full time, plus our crowds when we came back up three years ago where averaging around 2,500, last year it was slightly down to around 2,100 and this year it started off great until the Summer hit and our crowds are down to about 1,000 a game. It did help the budget but now its not sustainable.Quote:
Originally Posted by gufct
Quote:
Originally Posted by gufct
IMO there is way too much importance given to the notion of 'full time' versus 'part time'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillonman
For many people the definition appears to be the time of the day that the players train!
Dundalk train in the morning, St Pats train in the evening. Ergo Dundalk are full time and St Pats are part time? This distinction does not make much sense to me (I recall that of the St Pats circa 25 man european squad only 6-7 of them got compensation for taking time of a daytime job)
Just a heads up for Dublin based supporters:
Quote:
The DFC Trust are holding meetings in Dundalk and Dublin this week.
A workshop about the management committees which must be set up to enable the proposed fans’ takeover of the club took place on Monday night in the Lilywhite Lounge.
We have also organised a meeting for our Dublin-based supporters for this Wednesday night, 5th October, in the Regency Hotel in Whitehall at 7.30pm. If you are interested in becoming involved, please come along.
All supporters are invited to attend these meetings.
Only players with legitimate losses were compensated as far as I know. Many employers would not "dock" the money therefore no claim arose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Agree with you RE Full Time/ part time. Main diffenerce is season long contracts V 52 Week contracts (and we know how that went). While it would be expected that players with no other jobs would be fitter the difference has often been marginal.
Didn't Pats have some Scandinavian style hybrid system operating ?
Foster sacked and Matthews refused the combo Trust/ Bond bid. Says he wants to transfer to a fully supporter owned model on a phased basis over the next year. I'll believe it when I see it, things not looking good in Oriel Park.
http://www.dundalkfc.com/dundalk-fc-...ith-ian-foster
http://www.dundalkfc.com/statement-f...rry-matthews-2
Quote:
Current owner and CEO of Dundalk FC Gerry Matthews, has confirmed his intention to transfer the ownership of the club into the hands of the people of the town and to become a Supporter-Owned and operated football club within the coming year.Because of the pressing requirements of Club Licencing for the 2012 season and the legal complexities of finalising this transfer, it is intended to manage the ownership transfer on a transitional basis with completion of the formalities targeted for 2012. A new board of management including supporter, business and community representation is to be constituted with a view to managing and guiding the club towards completing this smooth transition to a Supporter Owned model.
Gerry Matthews said “It has always been my desire and intention to handover the ownership of the club to the supporters and community of Dundalk, and I share the view of the Dundalk FC Trust that the clubs long term interests will be best served by the club being supporter / community owned and operated as opposed to the private ownership alternative”
“My wish is to step down as CEO and from the management board when the new board is fully operational and to hand over full day-to-day executive powers to this group which will consist of supporters and community members. I have had very positive discussions with the DFC Trust group who I envisage having a pivotal role to play in both the immediate and long term success of the club. With the deadline for licensing applications fast approaching and with many other footballing matters an immediate priority, it is important that we create stability and a clear vision for the immediate future. I hope to be in a position to be able to provide more details and the specifics of the transition plan within the coming days. With the club being placed directly into the hands of the supporters and community of the town , I feel a strong enthusiasm and optimism about the future of the football club”
Relegation fodder next season....we are a mess! Might need some help from the Foras lads..
Forget FORAS, call for Samaritans and Dr. Kevorkian. Getting seriously scary on the Carrick Road.
Its a right bloody mess that needs sorting ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
I don't think that that consortium that was trieing to take over would have been good for the club,seems to me that they were getting into it to make money and as everyone know's; you won't make money running a LOI clubl !!!
That said,i don't realy trust Gerry Matthews either. :(
Matthews statement translated.
1/ I never wanted to sell as I own the YDC and I want to re-coup the money.
2/ I never thought any viable offer would come in.
3/ Until my business interests are satisfied, I am not selling out.
4/ If it means the football club going bust, I dont care as I own the company and the YDC is on the land. Thats my concern.
5/ Dont make any other offers, as I will dictate what happens from here onwards
6/ 2012 season, is there one> I know nothing about football anyway, so I dont care.
Tom Coughlan v Cork City Fans all over again, we have got to get this man out before he destroys the football club.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
this is scary, it seems very similiar to GUFC, ceo trying to cover stuff etc, anything but just open the book and let people look in
I would advise any supporters of Dundalk to get right under the bonnet of this one before getting involved
I am looking very nervously at this situation. I only met GM a handful of times and can't judge him as a person, however I admire many of the things he has done for Dundalk (I won't condemn him for the YDC as it's dangerous ground for the forum) and he is right to go. I said alot earlier that this "member" takeover is too similiar to the co-op which I opposed at the time and gave up my season ticket. And please somebody on the ground enlighten me, but do they believe that they can take over the club and get outside sources to "invest"? Not even Rovers would consider this and they had a powerful revenue stream from the 400 club. It is all well and good to say "we'll run it and get investors in", but how in the name of god do you repay investors? I've seen this way too often, we all have, and it just doesn't end well.
Oriel, I wouldn't go as far as comparing GM to Big Tom, but if a certain person rolls down the road from Monaghan........(with "investors" in tow)
No surprise Foster go the boot as given the quality players ye have (Cherrie, Quigley, Kearns to name just 3), and the great manager Foster believes he is, ye really have underperformed
I wouldn't go as far as Tommy no bobs as GM has done a hell of a lot for the club but it seems the cliff notes are GM basically has scaremongered the handover of the club to the trust at some unknown point in the future while he can cut costs to below the bare minimum to get the most income out of the club before that happens. The consortium and the trust came to an agreement thursday after GM putting the feelers out again to them I think for a joint takeover with GM setting the deadline of the day after, friday. When they went back to him he turned around and refused it (as is his legal right as the owner to be fair) and said he's just going to hand the club over to the trust on a phased basis in 2012. Some skullduggery going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Read the statements on the official website. Looks like a bit of mess.
As a FORAS member I'd advise every DFC supporter to join the Trust if you want to have a say in the club.It sounds like they will be crucial to any new ownership structure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paudie
its classic behaviour of people papering over cracks. seen it all here out west last year, the debt is small, manageable everything is ok, if only we could get more supporters. Open the press and earth shattering debts fell out everywhere. Why does an ongoing licencing process not pick these up, is it tick box and no one reads the trends.
There are one or two great staff in that licence office , they should be let in to clubs bi monthly or quarterly to check whats really going on.
A lot of peole on Orielweb seem to have made up their minds already and are knee-jerking and taking sides.For me.both sides are dangerous(GM V Bond&Co) and a takeover by the trust is the only way forward.This might take some time but it will ultmately put the Club right back in the fans hands.
Bullit, while I agree in principle with the Trust taking over, there aren't the numbers there to make it viable. In addition they have seemed to be quite clueless in all of this and have allowed themselves to be mucked about. If it's true that they believe they can run the club and get investors, that seems to be almost deluded. What are the Casey's doing about all of this? I mean, have they not said anything (can't see anything online), especially the issue over the YDC.Quote:
Originally Posted by bullit
Again, nothing against the Trust, this season I've seen first hand the sterling work they do, but I fear another co-op.
Spud if you think the Trust were clueless throughout this process you are greatly mistaken. Expert legal advise was taken at every step of the way. If the Trusts legal contacts were not in a position to address certain concerns the expertise further afield was sought. All 'available' accounts were scrutinised with accountants sitting in on meetings as proposals were toing and froing. Reps from supporters direct flew in for discussions. I believe contact was made with Cork Foras other supporter groups in the UK and Ireland. The ground work that was put in from mid summer was immense. Even with this the Trust would acknowledge that there was still a distance to go!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
The issue is that much came to light during this process that were of concern but not insurmountable. As the GUST found the deeper you dig the bigger the hole. Ultimately as solutions were found the problems conveniently changed! This in no way implies nieve or clueless process on behalf of the Trust but the ducking and diving by club owners.
As Foras also found out it is impossible to deal with a person who deluded in their own ideas for a club )or indeed generally deluded). Indeed the concept of the potential supporters run club being successful and obtaining members and/or investment is a lot less deluded than the opinions of the current board. The Casey's have and continue to input to the process depending on the circumstances of discussion!!
The model proposed by the Trust is far from the Co-op model and that will become apparent in due course.
I didn't think it at all, it is the appearance of such in the fiasco, and it wasn't relation to expertise, it was being played off another party for the ceo's gain (advantage). Everyone knows that once somebody has something to lose (the ceo and a few around him) then they'll hang on as much as possible. What I don't understand is why there was never signed an MOU, something with legal value to show progress as everything seems to be verbal or "on trust", yet I've found that in sports nothing can be done in trust, because even with a contract you are still liable for a kick in the backside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
It is only my opinion that looking for investment when it's a members run club is a little deluded, especially in the LOI. The Trust can operate the club on the funds it raises and build on it, forget investment, it's a slippery slope and can see the club go bang. I do hope you're right on path not going the way of the co-op, I was a bit worried by the previous takeover group (though at least one of them I know to have nothing but 100% DFC success in his heart) being not too far from this.
Are the Casey's set against GM? (just reading between your lines).
Be prepared during all this to be called naive, not of the football family, you will hear terms like "elephant in the room" sssshhhhh loads of "we dont wash our linen in public" . When you seek the truth and honesty around this league enemies appear so beware. No one at any club has anything to fear from the truth. Seek it , call for it and hold open meetings to verify it.
I can remember stories like ah ya it says we owe fifteen thousand on the statement but we dont really owe it.
"im putting a claim in to the fai but i will never claim it"
Now if we could get the supporters to buy season tickets, hold a fundraiser , a dog night well then everything will be grand. Oh also watch out for committee members affiliated to looney so called professional bodies to set in train a series of whispers to people journos etc that never seem to double check 2 sided stories. Expect fan led takeovers to be called "naive" again and again.
But Honesty, Integrity are nothing to be ashamed of. Dig Dig Dig and ask Supporters Direct they have seen it multiple times up and down the UK.
The clubs being run by trusts should try and get supporters direct more involved with the NLEC committee as well. There are plenty of details of the running of the league that have to be addressed and quickly. Best of Luck to DFC, There is plenty of help available, There is one lad i know at gufc who keeps a close affiliation to supporters direct uk that advice is available free, just pm me
Its my understanding (looking from the outside) that the Casey's have been more than accomodating in helping to alter the terms of the lease to allow the subletting of the supposed YDC (more a multi purpose centre really) by the club to GM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Just to add to your last point Spud, the lads in the trust, i know, won't be bullied by anyone and especially no by Matthews. They are in the precarious situation of being used but ultimately if the deal isn;t right I don't think they will accept it.
From being involved in M&A's there will be many twists and turns along the way. Even though the bond consortium deal has been rejected, I wouldnt say that "that is it for them". They could, I feel come back into the equation.
For whatever happens, the Dundalk Fc Trust will have some great involvement in the club and they will have a real share/voice in the day to day running and in the medium to long term strategy of the club. The trust boys have dfc 100% at heart and have and will serve the club well. The rest of us DFC fans need to accept the changing times get behind them and support them.
Jinxy that's what annoys me, that people who are after doing a terrific job, much of it thankless or unseen, getting messed about between moneymen. I don't doubt for a moment CB's efforts and a certain man from Fastfix, and I do know that GM has put in a fair amount of work, time and money, but something has been smelling with all of this and I am worried that the genuine people will lose out again. I'll personally support the trust if they take control of the club. It's a small amount each month to pay to support their efforts.
Good post Geezer, Dundalk are in a slightly better position with a local media pretty supportive of the supporters efforts. Though there is so much going on that it is going to hit the club in the close season.
Spud I have to reiterate what Jinxy was saying - there is no way that the Trust are being used as a make-weight piggy in the middle! The vast majority of progress made in producing the beginings of transparency is because the Trust asked the hard questions and in a Paxmanesque manner did not allow any deflection or spin. Now the fact that the Trust has essentially kept its powder dry in the current public washing of dirty laundry betweeen other partys is showing a sense of cool heads in a very heated situation. To underestimate the DFC Trust, its internal expertise, general determination, its ability to blow this mess wide open (which could happen if need be) and so on would be foolhardy for anybody who peers in the direction of DFC. In essence the Trust already deal with many of the major income streams, the programme, official website, merchandising, match day personnel ond so on, infact the parts of DFC that are done and run in a proper and professional manner!!! There is the very important issue of 'trust' (no pun intended), whereby supporters and the wider community recognise that the bullsh*t merchants are not among the Trust's ranks-a very important commodity for now and going forward!
Geezer the advice and sharing or experiences is much appreciated of course - the more shared experience the better but it is still early doors as I see it no matter how catastrophic everything seems to be presented at the moment; local media are getting it easy these days!!
Jinxy Des Casey and family have been as accomodating as they possibly can be without compromising an agreement that safegaurds our home trust is key on this matter(pun intended this time) ;)
yes nesta, but also I feel the Casey family are open to this because of the trust and the trust will be pivotal in the make up of the new companyQuote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Thats exactly what i meant, the consortium bid would never have been a runner, and GM is not in the cosiest place round Oriel so without the Trust a Casey brick wall is quite formidable!