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well, trap has left out other regulars recently. mc shane and kilbane (injured but also left out of squads when he was fit) for examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
when has hunt last played well for us? he used to contribute something but not anymore
because he wasn't in the original swuad that james was in. therefore james was picked ahead of himQuote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Nice list, Pretty similar to my own weekly one:Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...or-a-place-in-
Which has Paul Green in the 23 aswell. :(
Wasn't Green was called in after it was accepted that Gibson was out?
Unless Trap goes down to the crossroad and sells his soul for a decent midfielder, Fahey will continue to be our only player who has technique on the ball in the centre..
Whelan, Andrews, Gibson, Fahey, Duff and McGeady, those 6 are certainties.
Hunt was part of the qual campaign, he's in 7th place, but (hopefully) not nailed yet.
Lawrence and Keogh are out, Foley is regarded as a right back
That leaves McCarthy, Green, Coleman and McClean to play musical chairs for one or possibly two seats.
O'Shea will be used at RB, unless both St.Ledger and Dunne are injured.
both our 23's are identical, with the ranking very similiar aswell, have to give it to you on the presentation side though;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFox
a man who knows and knows he knows is a wise man, follow him
exactly but mccarthy was in the squad already at that stage so therefore picked ahead of green.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
in all likelyhood whichever one goes won't feature much. but for the future of irish football, i would like to see mccarthy at least gain the experience even if not the game time.
My point would be that McCarthy was selected in this squad, not with the Euros in mind but for the next campaign. In the pecking order now/current style of play/maturity - Green is ahead of McCarthy, therefore when Gibson was pulled out, Trap chose to call Green up and use him in a game where our centre midfield was porous and disjointed.
If my team was being played around in midfield and my players couldn't get near the ball, I'd choose Green over McCarthy too. If we had possession but our problem was we weren't making anything of it, I'd bring in McCarthy. Clearly last night we were in the former situation.
no offence geysir but your explanation there makes even less sense to me than the decision not to give mccarthy a gameQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Still McCarthy for me. It's not like he's a shrieking violet. To play in the premier league you have to be able to do a bit of everything. This season he has won more tackles per game than Whelan (can't see stats for Green or Andrews because they haven't been playing in the PL). Green gives the impression that he is doing something when he occasionally does his McShane Tasmanian Devil impression which is more likely to concede a free than to win the ball back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Obviously Trap agrees with you though on this point and he probably loves Green 'mentality' too.
Do you think Green played badly when he came on? I thought he plugged the holes Whelan couldn't (granted, he was struggling with an injury) and allowed us to play a little bit more on the front foot. McCarthy has a lot of skill but I don't think he'd be as effective at breaking up the other team's play and actually getting us in possession for a change. He'd be great when we did have the ball, but the problem was that we weren't winning it at all.
Have to say I think the McCarthy/Green debate is a little bit much of a muchness. Green did fairly well when he came on, in fairness, though I'd still prefer to not see him at the Euros. But McCarthy isn't exactly tearing it up or anything and he certainly hasn't shown the superlative talent to shine in the black hole that is our central midfield.
Bit of shame Gibson wasn't about last night, would have liked to see how he'd fit in after a run of Prem games for a change.
Maybe that's McCarthy's problem - not making the colourful noise Trap would like to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
maybe mccarthy isn't the man we all hope he is, but i would of just liked to see him get a shot, we already know what green can do.
in fairness to green he's not as bad as all the stick he gets, but he defo isn't good enough to live with modric, xavi and de rossi at the euros. as someone else pointed out it would of been great to get a look at gibbo last night now that he's a first team player at club level.
Don't think he had much of an impact at all overall. He did ok. The two things that stood out were his good long-distance strike and his blatant foul to prevent a Czech breakaway (guaranteed yellow in a comp. match).Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I believe our 'resurgence' was more due to the fact that:
a)we were losing
b)their changes severely disrupted them. Considering it wasn't their strongest lineup, I'm guessing that some of their C team might have come on and they weren't great individually or collectively near the end.
http://www.guardian.co.ukGiovanni Trapattoni's Ireland squad for Euro 2012 is virtually decidedQuote:
]The Republic of Ireland manager confirmed that he intends to take five strikers to Poland and Ukraine, as some of them also offer options in wide areas, while a prominent name-check for the Derby County midfielder Paul Green pointed towards his inclusion, removing, in many people's eyes, the final question mark over the squad's 23rd player.
He left McCarthy as an unused substitute against the Czechs and gave McClean his debut only as a 79th-minute substitute. "I said to James McCarthy during the game to watch what happened during various situations," Trapattoni said. "He is young, also McClean, For this tournament, he's too young. The preference is experience. I hope we don't have injuries ... the great squad is this.
"When I saw the tremendous reaction from the crowd to McClean coming on, I thought: 'Is Messi or Maradona or Pelé coming on?' I'm only joking ... I know what happens with the people and it's good for him. There is enthusiasm. But McGeady, Duff … they deserve respect. Go slowly, slowly [with the young players]."
Ireland's likely squad for Euro 2012
Goalkeepers: Given, Westwood, Forde
Defenders: O'Shea, Kelly, Foley, Dunne, St Ledger, O'Dea, Ward
Midfielders: Duff, Whelan, Andrews, Fahey, Gibson, Green, McGeady, Hunt
Strikers: Keane, Doyle, Long, Cox, Walters
Green has incriminating pictures of Trap and Manuela in a compromising position. The only logical conclusion.
I think I'd be more disappointed for Coleman to miss out than McCarthy. His injury problems/possible lack of form aside, he has a bit of impact and pace. With Hunt seemingly lost all confidence and turn of speed, that could be vital since all our other midfielders, except McGeady, are very one paced. I'd take Coleman instead of Foley even.
by that logic mccarthy will never get a game for us. we never have the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I understand a lot of the frustration people have over McCarthy, Coleman, McClean etc. What I don't get is how anyone is suprised. Trapattoni has always remained true to his convictions. Posting irately on here isn't going to change anything.
Looking at the guardians squad there, which seems pretty spot on if you were to predict it, it does read kind of like too many indians and not enough chiefs. In a 23 man squad, I was hoping he'd of given room for one inclusion that doesn't perfectly fit his 'system'. But who am I to argue.
Whatever squad goes, whatever team takes to the pitch, whatever subs get some gametime, my enthusiasm for this Irish team won't diminish. It saddens me to read of other posters who talk of giving up watching Ireland etc. When did following Ireland become about the quality of football ?;) Debates will go on about who should go and shouldn't go, that's a great thing about football. I just wish June would get here already so we all just get behind them.
Nicely put. Certainly issues in the squad and with Trap's running but is thus and ever shall be. Our home friendlies under him have been getting increasingly poor but I'm treating Wednesday with a bit of shrug tbh. Our home friendlies under Trap have been generally pretty poor for quite a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
How have our competitive outings been after poor home friendlies? I'm clinging to hope that there's a positive trend because that's about all I could take from last night!
I think to understand Trap's thinking with the midfield is like all other positions. He likes to have 2 like for like players. Green is the backup to Whelan, Gibson and McCarthy are the backups to Andrews. The only way McCarthy goes to Poland is if Gibson is injured.
I don't think he would have subbed off Andrews for Green. Andrews is the midfielder who is slightly more encourages to go forward.
McClean's only hope is if Fahey doesnt go as Fahey is conisidered as a backup winger (with the ability to go midfield). Trap tends to go with players with more versatility, at least as he sees it. It's a pity since McClean has played left back and as a striker for Derry but Trap hasnt seen this at Sunderland
Lost 1-0 to Argentina in Oct 2010 then beat Armenia and Andorra the next month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Lost 2-1 to Norway in Nov 2010, but then didn't have another competitive game until the next March, when we beat Macedonia 2-1 (beat Wales in the Carling Cup 3-0 in between).
Lost 3-2 to Uruguay March 2011, few days after the Macedonia game (that was the odd open game with a vitural second string due to injuries and withdrawals).
Drew 0-0 to Croatia last August. Drew 0-0 with Slovakia and Russia a month later.
Actually discounting the Carling Cup games, seems to me we haven't won a home friendly since Algeria in May 2010. No reason to discount the Carling Cup games in fairness, but they were a bit odd.
Also bear in mind we beat Italy 2-0 away last year too.
I can see the sense of much of what Trap has brought to the team, considering where we were and it's easy to see that in the results.
There is one major thing that doesn't make apparent sense to me, continually hoofing the ball and hoofing it to midgets. There is no apparent plan to play the ball out, when we're under pressure or when we're breaking out - like when O'Shea hoofs it into the general direction of Duff, or when we are not under any pressure - Shay and the back 4 lining up a hoof with the opposition all deep in defensive mode.
If we make a mistake in defence, I can imagine Trap will have it as an immediate priority to rectify that defect but there is no working program to rectify the compulsive hoof disorder.
I've heard Trap moan about our inability to hold onto possession but I see little evidence of any progress there, either with the players we have or bringing in players who can improve it.
I think that's rich from Trap. The reason we cant keep possession is entirely down to his instructions / tactics. If full backs cannot get over the half way line and midfielders cannot get ahead of the foward players then are passing options are always going to be extremely limited and predicatable. Possession is about movement and options. Wherever the ball was on the pitch the othernight we always appeared to be outnumbered. His plan is about not conceeding goals at all costs, but for that very reason we will always conceed possession.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
This friendly will have absolutely nothing to do with how we play in Euro. Absolutely nothing.
Couldn't disagree more. Trap clearly uses friendlies to further emphasise his playing style in players' minds. Sure he practically says as much every game.
If Stuart Pearce was our manager I'd agree, but for this you're 100% wrong. Trap places even more importance on friendlies than Brian Kerr did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
I meant it won't have anything to do with how we play in Poland but i see your points.
It seems like when we play bad in a friendly we play good in the next competitive match and vice versa, like Stan Beating Sweden or whoever that was 4-0, then losing to Cyprus or whatever.
3+ plus months with more friendlies looming just make this one meaningless imo.
It's a moot point whether Trap took the friendly serious or not, the indelible impression is that he will neither change the way we play nor his pecking order criteria and that's the bone of the contentions. What the friendly is not an accurate indicator of, is how well we will play our game at the Finals.
If Trap does bring in (or is forced to bring) somebody from outside the present squad, the basic approach to the game stays the same and the selected player is valued based on his ability to fit in. There's no obvious player like Steven Reid available who could (in his prime) slot in and bring something more. Trap claims he can smell the unity in the squad and certainly the players are behind him 100%. That's not a bad place to start from.
Most of the players have improved their club form and/or club position in the last few years, at least we can say that Trap hasn't had a detrimental influence on them.
This is exactly how I see it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir