All-Ireland representative team survey

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Originally Posted by geysir

Not much of a swing is needed.
I'd go for sometime around 2020 for the first referendum on Irish unity and the second or third referendum 2025 - 2030 to clinch it after earnest negotiations

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I think a big swing is needed.

You confuse aspirations with realities.

http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2010/Polit.../NIRELND2.html

Anytime you want with that Border Poll.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

i)

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?

Nort applicable.

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Is there not an 'aitch in that word normally?

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Originally Posted by Gather round

You are just daydreaming about abolishing the NI side. Stop stirring.

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This is pretty disingenuous. If an All-Ireland team were to happen, it would result in the abolition of the NI side AND the ROI side. It would be the end of two footballing identities and the start of a new one.

Why do you keep framing the argument as if it's the Republic trying to rub the North out??

1. No
2. (Sort of)
3. Yes
4. No

In answer to question two there is the possibilty there will be no NI team in ten years time. Or Scotland or Wales. There could be a UK team. With the very real possibility of no Northern Ireland born players getting into a UK squad. Might seem far fetched today but the major club sides hold the real power now. They might demand a two or even three tier system for international football (not too unlike cricket).

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Originally Posted by Gather round

PS you do realise that you've played two recent home games in Limerick, as well as others organised by the FAI in England?

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Yeah but they were only friendlies. I think it would be cool if they played some qualifying games out of Dubs. Like the Italians were scared to play us so they made us travel to ****e Bari. When they are confident, they play in Roma. We could do the same. We should have made the Russkies come to Cork.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

In answer to question two there is the possibilty there will be no NI team in ten years time. Or Scotland or Wales...might seem far fetched today but the major club sides hold the real power now. They might demand a two or even three tier system for international football

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Do you really think Barcelona or Internazionale are that bothered whether the mass of small international sides play eight or 10 games a year? Even if they were (or if there were other factors tending to downplay international football, like smaller finals or two-stage qualifying), that doesn't mean the smaller countries will simply vote themselves out.

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There could be a UK team. With the very real possibility of no Northern Ireland born players getting into a UK squad

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Heh. The idea has nothing really to do with Barca or Inter etc., does it? Just that old daydream about FIFA insisting on all-British side. They aren't interested, nobody is bar stirrers on this forum and Seb Coe trying to big up his Olympic youth football tournament.

What other merged teams do you envisage- Scandinavia, Yugoslavia, Iberia, Gondwanaland?

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not too unlike cricket

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If you follow the Worldwide game, you'll know that in the West Indies there's much talk of doing the opposite, ie the bigger islands playing individually in international tournaments (as they do in football).

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Originally Posted by Dylan is God

This is pretty disingenuous. If an All-Ireland team were to happen, it would result in the abolition of the NI side AND the ROI side. It would be the end of two footballing identities and the start of a new one

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It wouldn't. All the RoI fans calling for it would expect it to play all its games in the RoI, surrounded by RoI symbolism and inheriting the RoI's past record (all as I explained above). It offers nothing to NI fans and you haven't got the power to enforce it. Nothing but a daydream.

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Why do you keep framing the argument as if it's the Republic trying to rub the North out??

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Er, because it is. Stop stirring.

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Originally Posted by Crosby 87

I think it would be cool if they played some qualifying games out of Dubs. Like the Italians were scared to play us so they made us travel to ****e Bari. When they are confident, they play in Roma. We could do the same. We should have made the Russkies come to Cork

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Limerick's stadium is fine for international friendlies, why not use it? Ditto Cork if it has the facilities. Why the problem with Bari (I've never visited)?

See what I mean....
:rolleyes:

I just didn't really like Bari compared to other places in Italy.

The more I think of this conversation the more I wonder if Ireland could play a home game in Belfast. I know it's a silly thing to say. I would be curious to see the reception though. It could be pretty neat. For every person on here saying no, we wouldnt want that I'm sure we could find people who live up there would be happy with that. I have to do a thing with Tony Blair for work this week, I will ask him if I get a chance. Why, I dont know. He just seems to know a lot about that kind of ****.

1 - No
2 - No
3 - Yes
4 - No

In truth I find this board oddly obsessive about soccer in Northern Ireland and make constant comparisons and elusions towards a united team. They're a separate squad, operating in their own league with their own association. They're irrelevant to me, this country and this team. Players should have the right to declare for whichever they chose as per the good friday agreement but beyond that I'd be quite happy forgetting the NI team even existed. They're as relevant or interesting to follow as Iceland or Venezuela.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?

There is one - anyone born on the island of Ireland can play for the FAI team, if they wish. Those players from Northern Ireland (or otherwise eligible to play for Northern Ireland) who choose not to play for the FAI teams, instead choosing to play for the IFA teams, should have their choice respected and upheld.

ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?

Not applicable.

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

Not applicable.

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?

Not applicable.

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Ulster says 'Not Applicable'

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

Players should have the right to declare for whichever they chose as per the good friday agreement

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You'll incur the wrath for that.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

It wouldn't. All the RoI fans calling for it would expect it to play all its games in the RoI, surrounded by RoI symbolism and inheriting the RoI's past record (all as I explained above). It offers nothing to NI fans and you haven't got the power to enforce it. Nothing but a daydream.

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Why do you assume this is what ROI fans want??

If it were to happen, it would have to be equitable - i.e. split home games between Dublin and Belfast. Symbolism/Anthems done the same way as Rugby and Cricket - and new record.

Would you still object on these grounds?

Fair enough if you do, but you keep putting words in the mouths of the pro All-Ireland lobby to suit your own argument. None of us want what you say we want.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I think a big swing is needed.

You confuse aspirations with realities.

http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2010/Polit.../NIRELND2.html

Anytime you want with that Border Poll.

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Out of interest, how do they conduct these polls? I notice the results of another 2010 poll taken as part of the same overall survey that asked, "Which of these political parties do you feel closest to?", read as follows:

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Democratic Unionist Party (DUP): 18%
Sinn Fein: 11%
Ulster Unionist Party (UUP): 16%
Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP): 17%
Alliance Party: 10%
Other Party : 3%
None of these: 21%
Other answer: 2%
Don't know: 2%

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Of course, I know it's not the exact same question as straight out asking who one votes or has voted for, but Sinn Féin, for example, took 27% of the vote in the most recent assembly election last month whilst the DUP took 30% of the vote. There doesn't appear to be a huge degree of correlation between the election results and the poll results. Should correlation be expected? Maybe we shouldn't necessarily expect any considering tactical voting can come into play and all that; I don't know.

However, this earlier survey, taken by NILT in 2003, asks the question directly with regard to how people voted in the 2001 Westminster elections and the results don't correlate at all with the actual share of the votes cast. The DUP, and Sinn Féin especially, tallied a much higher percentage of votes (22.5% and 21.7%, respectively) than the survey suggested they would have had (12% and 8%, respectively). Can such surveys really be trusted then as an accurate reflection or cross-section of the entire community in the north?

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

In truth I find this board oddly obsessive about soccer in Northern Ireland and make constant comparisons and elusions towards a united team. They're a separate squad, operating in their own league with their own association. They're irrelevant to me, this country and this team.

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Naturally, they'll get a bit more attention than other international teams on the board for a few reasons:

1. No other association and set of fans have been accusing the FAI of "poaching" eligible Irish nationals with sectarian undertones for the past half a decade.
2. There are quite a few northern-born Ireland fans and Ireland fans with northern links or relations on this board, myself included, who feel very strongly that northern-born Irish nationals should be free to declare for Ireland unimpeded because it could potentially impact directly upon them, those they know or players with whom they identify. Naturally, when the IFA try to hinder this right or NI fans try to cast cynicism on the national identity of nationalists, they'll feel compelled to challenge such views on matters. Many south of the border also feel quite strongly about this.
3. We faced NI recently in the Carling Nations Cup.
4. There is a very significant number of players eligible to play for us who also happen to be eligible to play for the IFA. When discussion arises specific to these players, some of it will inevitably base itself around the prospect of them lining out for us and the accompanying hysterical IFA/OWC moaning that now appears obligatory.
5. There are three or four NI fans on this board who post here quite regularly. Their contributions will have the natural effect of colouring the discussion with their own interests and perspectives. Nothing wrong with that. Bit of variety and debate never did any harm.
6. An all-Ireland team appears to be a long-held aspiration of many. If such was to be realised, it would have serious implications for the IFA and their team.
7. Nigel Worthington is one of the most comical figures in modern international football and certainly knows how to go about doing or saying something that'll spark a good discussion; the recent Alex Bruce story and his "North of Ireland" comment being particular gems.

I don't think the board is obsessive when it comes to NI though. There is reason for the NI-related discussion. Other than that they're as relevant or irrelevant as any other team. I don't think people really engage in comparing the two sides a huge deal, do they? It's not like we gauge the strength conveyed by our own rankings or seedings relative to their positions or anything. If people want to talk about issues with nothing to do with NI, there are plenty of other threads that form the vast majority of threads on this forum where mention of them is unlikely to crop up.

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Players should have the right to declare for whichever they chose as per the good friday agreement

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Well, just on that point... :p

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Out of interest, how do they conduct these polls? I notice the results of another 2010 poll taken as part of the same overall survey that asked, "Which of these political parties do you feel closest to?", read as follows:



Of course, I know it's not the exact same question as straight out asking who one votes or has voted for, but Sinn Féin, for example, took 27% of the vote in the most recent assembly election last month whilst the DUP took 30% of the vote. There doesn't appear to be a huge degree of correlation between the election results and the poll results. Should correlation be expected? Maybe we shouldn't necessarily expect any considering tactical voting can come into play and all that; I don't know.

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It has been noted that a sizeable number of respondents to such polls, hide their true voting intentions in order to appear more moderate to the recorder.

i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?

Yes, its where we will eventually end up so we may as well sit down, thrash it out and crack on.

ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?

Not without a big adjustment to the notion that the FAI side will simply absorb the IFA side, and then carry on. Even then a decade might be pushing it.

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

Yes. And all emerging underage NI internationals should be made aware of their option and how welcome they would be.

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?

Yes, it would still leave work to do, but of course the player pool and resources of both properly combined would improve the odds.

And, I would be happy to see the new side 're-branded' for want of a better term, so a kinship was felt toward it by both traditions, and sure why not start in pot six and rebuild it from there, the ascent might just be the bonding session required to seal the deal, even if it took a few campaigns, what matters, we are looking at the next 800 years here ....

Heh, that's far too reasoned given some of the reactionary drivel that's preceded it....

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Originally Posted by Dylan is God

Why do you assume this is what ROI fans want??

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Variously, it's what

a) they tell me, here, there, and pretty much everywhere

b) I infer from their references to the stadia, the symbolism, the succession etc. as I mentioned above

c) many of the dimmer ones seem to associate wth the merging of two mdiocre teams and a massively better one automatically emerging

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If it were to happen, it would have to be equitable

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Baloney. You (plural if not personally) don't want it to be equitable; we don't want it at all, under any circumstances. It isn't happening.

Do you seriously think RoI fans would look forward to playing games at Windsor, surrounded by thousands of bad-tempered unionists, with God save Big Ears blaring out? Wise up.

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Would you still object on these grounds? Fair enough if you do

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Er, yes. It is a consistent theme of mine, alas ;)

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you keep putting words in the mouths of the pro All-Ireland lobby to suit your own argument. None of us want what you say we want

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Ha ha, Do you speak for all of that lobby, or are you just putting words in their mouths?

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Originally Posted by Danny Invincible

An all-Ireland team appears to be a long-held aspiration of many. If such was to be realised, it would have serious implications for the IFA and their team

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Aye, abolition of the NI team would have a fairly serious implication for the team. No ****, Sherlock.

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Originally Posted by Craft Toe Poke

Yes, its where we will eventually end up

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Do you have any actual evidence or argument for this, or just more wishful thinking?

Look, we aren't merging with your footbal team. Go away and stop stirring.

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Not without a big adjustment to the notion that the FAI side will simply absorb the IFA side

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The notion backed by all the evidence, ye mean?

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And all emerging underage NI internationals should be made aware of their option and how welcome they would be

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I think they already know how polite and welcoming you are. Of course they'll also know that only 11 places are available in any given football team, and realistically they'll be competing also against players from England, and maybe Scotland.

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why not start in pot six and rebuild it from there

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Have you been smoking pot six?

See what I mean.
:rolleyes:

What do you mean?

See the preceding post....
Then say something original?

Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?

We already have one. I think what question 1 is really asking or implying is would you like to see an all-Ireland football association?

ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?

Not in the next 10, not in the next 50, not in the event of an all-ireland geo-political entity, not even in the event of a 32 county socialist republican idyll benevolently led by the universally loved grandfather of the nation President Ruari O'Bradaigh. It won't happen.

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

Yes, absolutely. though I'm uncomfortable with people being cuckoos eggs in the IFA setup ...no rules being broken but it's just a bit messy.

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?

Barely. It could possibly mean gaps created by injuries and withdrawals would be more easily plugged but it would scarcely mean a measurable jump in quality. Anyway, it's an angels on pinheads discussion, it's not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Out of interest, how do they conduct these polls?

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The "technical notes" on how the survey is conducted should be in the link.

Regarding how people voted at the recent Assembly elections, less that 55% of people eligible to vote bothered their arse to do so.

In the event of a Border Poll, one could expect the percentage voting to increase quite dramatically.

Why would we need a 'border poll' for a UI soccer team??

It's not been needed for rugby, cricket, hockey, boxing, golf etc.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I think what question 1 is really asking or implying is would you like to see an all-Ireland football association?

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I think it's really asking 'Do you think there shouldn't be a NI team for its fans to support'? So far on this thread, 12 of 21 RoI fans offering an opinion agree. Even though they already have an effective all-Ireland team to support, which welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond.

Not nice, regardless of whether the dirty dozen and the many who agree with them are daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Why would we need a 'border poll' for a UI soccer team??

It's not been needed for rugby, cricket, hockey, boxing, golf etc.

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Simply because none of these associations split. They didn't have the Belfast-centric problems that saw to the FAI being formed.
This aspect if the argument is redundant and drives me bananas Everytime it's mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

I think it's really asking 'Do you think there shouldn't be a NI team for its fans to support'? So far on this thread, 12 of 21 RoI fans offering an opinion agree. Even though they already have an effective all-Ireland team to support, which welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond.

Not nice, regardless of whether the dirty dozen and the many who agree with them are daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded.

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You are getting sloppy with your arguments.

If said dirty dozen "welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond" why would their motivation in joining forces with their nearest neighbours be that of "daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded"?

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Originally Posted by Gather round

I think it's really asking 'Do you think there shouldn't be a NI team for its fans to support'? So far on this thread, 12 of 21 RoI fans offering an opinion agree. Even though they already have an effective all-Ireland team to support, which welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond.

Not nice, regardless of whether the dirty dozen and the many who agree with them are daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded.

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Ha. I love the irony of your posts. Very entertaining.

ULSTER SAYS GATHER-ROUND IS NOT A $HIT STIRRER!!!

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Originally Posted by ifk101

If said dirty dozen "welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond" why would their motivation in joining forces with their nearest neighbours be that of "daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded"?

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Er, because they seem unable to grasp that it's possible to include all and sundry in their own team without having to exclude other fans from supporting a different team?

If your arguments were any sloppier they'd be on the lunch menu at Portlaoise.

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Originally Posted by Fixer 82

Ha. I love the irony of your posts. Very entertaining

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My pleasure. But look, here's the deal. I'll stop narking if you stop deluding about abolishing my football team.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Er, because they seem unable to grasp that it's possible to include all and sundry in their own team without having to exclude other fans from supporting a different team?

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But they welcome the creation of a new entity - so called "all Ireland" team. It wouldn't be a continuation of their current "own team".

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Originally Posted by ifk101

But they welcome the creation of a new entity - so called "all Ireland" team. It wouldn't be a continuation of their current "own team"

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The same old RoI team playing all its home matches in the RoI, surrounded by RoI symbolism, inheriting the RoI's historical record. Similar to the RU team really, only on a bigger more visible scale. But, as I may have mentioned, even if it lined up in front of a muriel of King Billy's horse, ran out to the strains of Aghalee Heroes and had nothing but oranges at half-time we just aren't interested. Stop stirring.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

My pleasure. But look, here's the deal. I'll stop narking if you stop deluding about abolishing my football team.

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Well I would call it aspirational more than delusional. if it never happens then it's not the end of the World. But I'm certainly not getting angry about it.
And you must remember, it would be abolishing my football team as well.
Instead we would have one team that plays in green from the island of Ireland. (We can even bring back the away Orange jersey to help you acclimatise a little easier ;) )
Compromises would have to be made by both sides, sure, but our similarities far outweigh our differences and that's why I think it makes sense.

i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?

No. I used to in the past but I just don't think it would work out. Too much animosity on both sides.

ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?

No chance. The blazers on both sides don't want to dilute their perks.

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

No. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see the likes of Gibson playing for us. I know about the GF agreement etc but I agree with the Norners somewhat who say it is a jurisdiction issue not necessarily a political issue.

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?

No because we're both pretty much shyte.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

The notion backed by all the evidence, ye mean?

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This sentiment intended here was in fact the total opposite of how you have interpreted it, you are so busy and intent on saying No, you dont even understand whats actually being said to you. And in those circumstances, of little value to a debate.

I'm sure you will dismiss this as stirring, or daydreaming, or whatever it is you need to tell yourself.

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Originally Posted by Metrostars

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

No. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see the likes of Gibson playing for us. I know about the GF agreement etc but I agree with the Norners somewhat who say it is a jurisdiction issue not necessarily a political issue.

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Reading that makes me a little unconfortable.

[IMG]

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Originally Posted by Gather round

The same old RoI team playing all its home matches in the RoI, surrounded by RoI symbolism, inheriting the RoI's historical record. Similar to the RU team really, only on a bigger more visible scale. But, as I may have mentioned, even if it lined up in front of a muriel of King Billy's horse, ran out to the strains of Aghalee Heroes and had nothing but oranges at half-time we just aren't interested. Stop stirring.

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I love Muriels

This one is my favourite

http://www.amanandamouse.com/abbanat...der/muriel.gif

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Well I would call it aspirational more than delusional

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No, it's delusional not just if you think the 'merged' team would be much stronger, but also as you seem to think there's any chance of us (NI fans) agreeing to it.

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And you must remember, it would be abolishing my football team as well

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It wouldn't in practice, as described above. But even if it was, there's a difference between voluntering to dissolve and having it imposed on you.

Stop stirring.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

The same old RoI team playing all its home matches in the RoI, surrounded by RoI symbolism, inheriting the RoI's historical record. Similar to the RU team really, only on a bigger more visible scale. But, as I may have mentioned, even if it lined up in front of a muriel of King Billy's horse, ran out to the strains of Aghalee Heroes and had nothing but oranges at half-time we just aren't interested. Stop stirring.

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You mean mural.

I'm not talking about anything being imposed on anyone.
If the people and the associations don't want it to happen it won't happen.
If they come to their senses and decide to unite then it will happen.
Nothing will be forced on anyone.
It would hardly make for a healthy association if it were to be operating under force.

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Originally Posted by Metrostars

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

No. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see the likes of Gibson playing for us. I know about the GF agreement etc but I agree with the Norners somewhat who say it is a jurisdiction issue not necessarily a political issue.

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It isn't a jurisdiction issue though. Where does jurisdiction come into it? It's an issue of national identity which is the foundation of national teams, according to FIFA and most international football fans, I would have thought. When a player possesses a permanent nationality not dependent on residence, he's eligible to play for a particular country irrespective of the jurisdiction within which he was born. It's how the likes of Ciaran Clark or Kevin Kilbane qualify to play for us and it's how the likes of Darron Gibson qualifies to play for us.

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Originally Posted by Crafty Toe Poke

This sentiment intended here was in fact the total opposite of how you have interpreted it

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OK, funny boy. Let's go through it again. In answer to the clearly implied question 'Do you think the NI side should be abolished' you said, "Yes, its where we will eventually end up". How exactly else do you suggest I interpret it?

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you are so busy and intent on saying No, you dont even understand whats actually being said to you. And in those circumstances, of little value to a debate

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Ha ha.I understand what you wrote. If it wasn't what you meant to write, or you now realise it's self-contradicting, say so. We all make mistakes. But ultimately if you don't want to debate with NI fans, don't. No-one's forcing you.

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I'm sure you will dismiss this as stirring, or daydreaming, or whatever it is you need to tell yourself

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Got it in one, Einstein.