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He probably is.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops1
I suggested a foot.ie Q&A with Koevermans, like the one with Padraig Smith a couple of years back. I thought that was really good.
Maybe we could do it in conjunction with YBIG.
Would anyone else be interested?
How would we go about it?
I would be very interested, as I'm sure a few more on here would be also, your guess, my guess as to where to start regarding it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Interesting aside about Irish teams possibly joining the Scottish (-dominated?) League.
The most likely might be Linfield and Glentoran- say if the IPL decided it couldn't sustain semi-pro football.
That's hardly rocket science....
Lads, I know my views on here did not go down too well with many of you, but after reading this article, I think ideas to stop this exodus of young Irish footballers is necessary. We need to somehow keep these guys at home until they are old enough to make their own decisions. Any ideas would certainly be welcome.
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-2893971.html
Sadlier discussing this on Newstalk now
I'm delighted that this is now a topic of national conversation. It was never gonna happen within the confines of foot.ie
Surely just having an all Ireland team will solve everything?
If Green is the Colour taught me anything...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Taught, Bonnie, taught. You need to go back to academy.
I haven't seen it yet.
Gah...
Interesting comment from Trap that is somewhat relevant to this discussion:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-3140403.htmlQuote:
"Against Spain, you saw an idea of how we can try to look to the future." Trapattoni said. "For McClean, it wasn't the best time to put him on, but coming on like this will help him understand what international football is all about. Some of the players who are talked about in Ireland need to come in and play these games and get used to it. But it is not easy, because teams play different systems in international football, unlike in England where everybody plays the same way."
That's a frightening comment isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Is it not true, though? Roy Hodgson certainly isn't doing anything to dispute it.
It is very true. But we are stuck at this crossroads. We want to remove ourselves from the shackles of Perfidious Albion but if the majority of our players play there what can we do?
I think the national academy idea, if handled correctly, could be an excellent idea, though I have little faith in the FAI of doing a professional job of anything.
The English academy system we are reliant one is failing us pure and simple ; whether it works for England or not, it certainly doesn't work for us. If you doubt this just try and put together a team under the age of 30 of players from the Republic (not talking about plastics and our recent recruits from the North here as they are not relevant to the issue) who have followed the traditional route through english youth teams in to senior football. The resulting team probably wouldn't make the top 100 FIFA rankings.
The few younger players breaking through recently actually largely came through the much maligned League of Ireland (Long, Mcclean Coleman etc) rather than the english system, and these are the ones that werent rated highly enough at 16 to get picked up by english academies. For all its justifiable vilification the LOI is actually doing to some degree its job as in any smaller football country of nurturing local talent before they move on to bigger leagues when they are ready. The difference between our league and say Switzerland/Denmark and others is that the players leave earlier still as the LOI has little to offer them a professionals and the most talented youth players get excluded as for the most part they have already been chewed up and spit back out by english clubs before they were ready to make the move overseas.
What might work is having an Ireland academy team or even better a couple based here but competing in the english academy system if they will permit us. This would take some investment to make it financially viable and worthwhile to the young players themselves. Then they could have a senior version competing in the LOI for when they get beyond the age of 18 rather than going to rot in the english reserve team system which happens to so many of our young players. The better ones will get the chance to move on to english or perhaps continental teams inevitably but in the meantime they will get the chance to play properly competitive senior football to help their development and Irish supporters will have the opportunity to see our brightest young players playing in our league before they move on, like most countries do, so everyone gains.
Otherwise we can wait a century and wait to see if the LOI evolves enough to start doing this job anyway but who has the patience for that?
There should be compulsory Spanish lessons for all Irish youth players so a) they can score Spanish girls and b) go to Spain at different times during their development and learn what they can from some of the best youth systems. Catalonia is very Irish-friendly too.
IMO, it's the language gap more than anything that's preventing players looking beyond Engerland for their football education.
So they should learn Catalan then?
Originally Posted by mark12345
"Been away for a few years but I had this comforting feeling in the back of my mind that while the lads in the national team, with the exception of three or four, have little or no technical ability, at least the coaches at home were working on correcting that problem. But I guess from reading the posts on here that is not the case. Very troubling indeed to think that for midfield creativity in ten / fifteen years time we'll be looking at young fellas similar to Glenn Whelan and Keith Andrews. Something has to be done by the FAI to fix this poverty in the Irish game."
Just looked at the beginning of this thread and found this post from a year ago. In light of what has happened to the Irish midfield in the past week well.......... And in light of everyone on here calling for a new focus on the technical side of the game, then the problem is more acute than ever. I also read a post on here about kids playing in Dublin who are winning leagues by the long ball game and are playing 11 a side at a young age. Those two together go a long way to explaining the problem.
I can't believe that coaches at home are still coaching the long ball game. Just boggles the mind. Also blows the mind that kids are playing 11 aside before the age of 14. That's a recipe for disaster also.
I can tell you that I learned more about football in six months in America then I did in 23 years at home. Playing against different ethnic groups you very quickly saw the flaws in the long ball game when chasing shadows in 100 degrees of heat.
Here's an obvious illustration of the problem
http://www.belvederefc.com/honours/t...binet.910.html
http://cherryorchardfc.ie/honours.html
Bobby Charlton once called Home Farm FC the best soccer nursery in the world.
But that's because their is no incentive for them to do otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by eekers
The fact that there are U7 trophies and leagues to win is the problem, not that the clubs are winning them.
Also they are 2 fantastic Junior Clubs that have contributed a lot to Irish soccer. I say that as a person with the red and black in my wardrobe.
yea there was a time Home Farm when was supplying loads of players to English/Scottish clubs. I wonder is that still the case? Didn't they fade a bit and Tolka Rovers and others pick up where they left off?
BonnieShels: it's reckoned that only about 35% of the Catalan population have Catalan as their native language, despite what the politicized hipsters would tell ya. Anyway they are forgiving when foreigners speak Spanish. And learning Catalan would be moer limiting than learning Spanish. So, no.
Ah janey Texi. I was joshing. I do like your term politicized hipsters. I may steal that.Quote:
Originally Posted by texidub
There was a Home Farm age group a few years back that produced something like a dozen players who were picked up by top clubs, including Darren O'Dea, Owen Garvan, Chris McCann and Shane Supple.
As for playing 11-a-side before the age of 14? I'd say most of us here probably started when we were 6 or 7.
And there was a Home Farm schoolboy team that went unbeaten for four years too wasn't there? I remember losing 1-0 to them in a cup semi-final in about the third year of that run. Don't think any of them went on to do anything though, which seems strange enough. There's a disconnect between schoolboy football and the international side. Also the fact that second gen players developed elsewhere, with no connection to Irish game (beyond a passport and, in fairness, often a genuine sense of pride too) can get into the International side with ease can't be good for the heads of players who play the game here. I don't remember Pat Byrne ever disgracing himself in an Irish shirt.. and Liam O'Brien was a better player at Shamrock Rovers before he went to Man United.. both players that Jack Charlton picked.
Can't see these things ever changing until the league here starts getting more support.
That was the same Home Farm team I think.
I can't see the league getting more support until things change. But how can that paradox be broken?Quote:
Originally Posted by texidub
On the idea of an academies. Part of improving things has to be raising the profile of the LOI & IL. As kids are coming out of the academies at whatever age it is decided they should be moving on into local clubs, there would be the potential to have some sort of american style talent draft. It would make for a great hour or so of TV if nothing else.
I played against that Home Farm team back in the late-80's, if I remember rightly. One thing I do remember is Eddie VanBoxtel playing for them. We played them in Blanch, lost 3-1 but not many of their players did much in the pro game. It's a difficulty that setting out to win at all costs in youth level is very destructive in the senior game. I also remember them being filthy. I was switched from left wing to right full because of injuries and they were so nasty.
I thought Gary Kelly was part of that team, no? My friend's dad coached Kenny Cunningham there and advised him to stay at school, he'd never make it!
So true, most Irish players are playing in England but the big English teams who are playing in Europe every season are not signing many Irish players anymore since they are combing the globe for the cream of the worlds top technical players.Quote:
Originally Posted by texidub
So alot of our best players are missing out on playing other top european players every second week for half the season and this is part of the reason Irish football is in decline.
I wonder say much is the likes of Keith Andrews earning at West Brom? Would he get the same money and get his game for the likes of say FC Copenhagen where he might get much more European experience?
It's this alone that I think McGeady moving to Russia was important
Half way to solving the problem with posts likes this. At least we're identifying the issue and we can put a plan in place to help the youths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario
Heard a great argument the other day, forget national acadameys and the like, what's holding back our players is the fact that the FAI no longer allow players to go to the UK on trial at 11 and 12 years of age. Apparently not shipping our youngsters across to England at a young enough age, when 90% of them will fail and have their love of the game destroyed, is actually what's going wrong. We need to get them on the cattle boats to England before they're out of primary school and all our problems will be solved. Simple. This was a 100% serious argument put to me.
Imagine how much better Roy Keane would have been if he had left Ireland aged 12 instead of aged 19! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
While my views have not been in line with others in regards to the possibility of a National Academy, I think we all agree that we would need a stronger league to justify such a move.
The A League in Australia has one great advantage over the LOI. There are 10 teams in it and no relegation system. This ensures that the financial threat associated with relegation does not exist, and in turn, gives the clubs greater confidence going forward. The clubs are also salary capped to ensure competitiveness.
I am not saying that the league is brilliant or the answer to all our problems, but it does produce international players and many players play in it when older like Kewell and Emerton. I would also say that I don't think they have produced players of the quality of Doyle, McClean etc.
I think to also justify the point I am making, the English Rugby Union Clubs often complain about the fact that the Irish provinces are given an unfair advantage as they do not have to face relegation battles like they do. There may be some truth to it considering Irish sides have been champions for 5 out of the last 7 years.
Lads, before any of you decide to ridicule me for this inclusion, I felt it was worth mentioning in terms of the general debate on here and I am not saying it is the solution.
Glossing over the rugby argument.
There is more money in the A-League than in the LOI. It is not competing with Junior Football.
When you have a league in a sand bowl of a country it's easy to just plonk a team or two into a city and go "there it is lads".
Australia's soccer history is not something we should want to replicate. Completely different story to our issues.
Also, there was no relegation in the LOI until the First Division was created in the 80's. We weren't exactly kicking arse internationally then either.
We need to look at similar countries to ourselves (Croatia, Sweden, Denmark) and then when we have appropriate structures in place then we can aspire to be like Netherlands and Belgium etc.
I just found this article again about why Shane Supple retired. It gives an excellent insight into a player who was realistic, honest and homesick for much of his time in England. This is the sort of player who may have excelled in Ireland, if the right set up existed. Worth a look!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ne-Supple.html
The reason players return the A-league when they're older is that they want to live at home. There's not the same geographic/cultural gulf between Ireland and the UK. Plus there's more money, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
It was very interesting re-reading this thread given that it was a year out from Euro2012 and the nadir that it was.